106 replies to this topic

[Tahribator]

Lights:

• Commando: A has good quirks, but the rest are underwhelming. I'm sure PGI can see their usage is still on the lower end. The Commando cannot boat any weapon, so quirks have to be proportionally better.

Mediums:

• Vindicator: Massive redo is required. Basically Vindis need some quirks on the magnitude of 9S' quirks. 1AA is decent, but it could use a PPC heat reduction. 1X needs a massive(50% DPS boost) bonus to one of the autocannons, 1R needs to be focused on lasers only, remove PPC bonuses. Make them glass cannons. SIB needs 4SP levels of laser and SRM boosts. Give every VND mobility quirks (torso twist speed, acceleration, turn radius).
  
• Cicada: X-5 is woefully underpowered compared to the rest. Give it more missile tubes and a little missile cooldown bonus. It'll do well.
  
• Centurion: A could use a bit more boost to its AC10 cooldown.
  
• Trebuchet: Give Trebs arm armor and structure bonuses. They lose those gigantic arms too easily.
  
• Kintaro: Side torso structure boosts are needed to bring its survivability up there with the other mediums. Quirks on non-18 variants need to be revised up as well. This 'Mech is still pretty bad and lacks a niche.

Heavies:

• Dragon: 1N is unproportionally good compared to the others. Either boost the other Dragon quirks more, or bring 1N in line with them. 5N UAC5 quirk is underwhelming. Give it a blanket ballistic cooldown reduction (~20%) and let players choose the weapon they want.
  
• Quickdraw: Everything except 4G is still underwhelming. 5K needs to focus on ML quirks. Boost CT/ST structures a bit to make this mini-Awesome more durable.
  
• Cataphract: This thing is still not used because it's too wide and dies very quickly. It can't snipe because of low hardpoints and it can't brawl because of its wideness. PGI needs to make up their minds about the indended role for non-3D variants and adjust quirks accordingly. 10% here and there makes no difference. I'd say non-3D variants need TDR levels of quirks to be made viable again.
  
• Orion: Where to begin. It suffers from the low mounted hardpoint syndrome as well, but thankfully it's not as wide as the CTF. PGI needs to focus these on being STD engine brawlers. Focus VA on SRM4's and AC20, keep V's AC5 quirks, give K ML and AC20 bonuses (speed is a must), give M AC10 and LL bonuses and finally refocus the Protector on being a "general purpose" Orion. No specific quirks but general boosts to everything (Say -15% Energy heat reduction, -15% Ballistic cooldown, 15% Energy Range, 15% PPC speed and so on). Give every Orion torso twist and turn radius bonuses. This is probably the most important of all.

Assaults:

• Awesome: This 'Mech is still beyond redemption. Wide and low mounted hardpoints. Give 9M 9S levels of ERPPC quirks. It's much easier to deal with so there's no reason not to give it better ERPPC quirks. 8Q could use more laser focused quirks instead of PPCs. Maybe keep the PPC quirks but buff lasers a bit more. 8T still sucks. 8V and 8R are fine.
  
• Victor: The gigantic rear-CT hitbox needs to be trimmed. Refocus Victors on being XL brawlers. Structure bonuses to arms and STs are needed.
  
• Highlander: Still absent from the battlefield and honestly as a HGN enthusiast I can see why. Fix Class I JJs and it will help these beasts immensely. Give its JJs better initial impulse and less heat. Currently they suffer too much from running too hot (due to low engine cap and less internal heatsinks and JJ heat), so they could use heat reduction/dissipation quirks all across the board. I'd say improve JJ usability first and then see if any weapon system needs boosting.

Edited by Tahribator, 31 January 2015 - 06:26 AM.

[Pjwned]

xe N on, on 31 January 2015 - 01:15 AM, said:

The quirkening actually didn't improve the balance between mechs.It just create a new league of meta mechs that outperform all other

Not really, there are a bunch of mechs in use now that pretty much did not exist on the battlefield before, and even if some mechs are still on the sidelines that's a lot better than it was before, and either way that's what quirks aimed to fix.

The problem is just a few quirks that are really out of line such as the TDR-9S and arguably some of the very noticeable cooldown quirks like the DRG-1N or even the RVN-H, just tone some of that stuff down and the balance will be much better.

[Fate 6]

Onmyoudo, on 31 January 2015 - 01:41 AM, said:

A good half of the IS mechs need better quirks. Arguably only the KGC, Thuds, Cataphracts, Hunchbacks, Firestarters and Stalkers don't. Maybe not the Jagers or Jenners either. A few more are alright but not fantastic. Some are in desperate need of more help, like the Commandos and Quickdraws.

More than half of the clan mechs need quirks. Everything except the holy trinity, and some of them need a massive boost as well.

Jenners are basically pointless compared to Firestarters right now. Certainly the F is completely useless.

[xe N on]

Pjwned, on 31 January 2015 - 06:27 AM, said:

Not really, there are a bunch of mechs in use now that pretty much did not exist on the battlefield before, and even if some mechs are still on the sidelines that's a lot better than it was before, and either way that's what quirks aimed to fix.

The problem is just a few quirks that are really out of line such as the TDR-9S and arguably some of the very noticeable cooldown quirks like the DRG-1N or even the RVN-H, just tone some of that stuff down and the balance will be much better.

Most of the mechs didn't exist on the battlefield because of the strong poptart meta that was before the Laz0r-meta we have now.

[Burktross]

Alistair Winter, on 31 January 2015 - 03:21 AM, said:

The CPLT-K2 needs to replace its silly projectile speed buff with something that helps DPS. We're talking cooldown or heat bonus.

As for the light mechs:
All Locusts need a firepower boost. The LCT-3M already has good firepower, but it's not enough.
Ravens, Commandos and Locusts need some extra leg armour. Especially Locusts.

I think lolcusts would be fine with more armor all around (their legs are already buffed)
Personally, I think the 1E could benefit from duration quirks. Heavy duration quirks.

[Tarogato]

In my honest opinion, instead of more quirks, I think we should dial down all present quirks by about 10%. When they came up with the numbers for the quirks, I think they overshot a little bit.

[1xLocustx1]

I agree with most of the ideas in this thread.

But there has to be done something to the Awesomes, the 8R is really fine in its place, but i cant stand those thunderbolts abusing PPCs while the Awesome is CLEARLY intended to make heavy use of PPCs.

Also the Firestarters are more or less stronger than the jenner in most ways, the jenner needs some CT structure and or Armor quirks.

And i totally agree with the Catapult being largely inferior to most heavys in the game atm. i like the idea to give the K2 the 9SS ppc quirks but maybe only for standard PPCs. The hitbox of the Catapult would kinda balance that out.

Just my personal observations for Mechs i have a special eye for.

[Joseph Mallan]

Burktross, on 31 January 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

I think lolcusts would be fine with more armor all around (their legs are already buffed)
Personally, I think the 1E could benefit from duration quirks. Heavy duration quirks.

my problem with this thinking is it is a 20 Ton Mech. It is the Lightest Mech in teh game. Which would by normal logic make it the most fragile platform to use. Right?

[Burktross]

1xLocustx1, on 31 January 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

I agree with most of the ideas in this thread.

But there has to be done something to the Awesomes, the 8R is really fine in its place, but i cant stand those thunderbolts abusing PPCs while the Awesome is CLEARLY intended to make heavy use of PPCs.

Also the Firestarters are more or less stronger than the jenner in most ways, the jenner needs some CT structure and or Armor quirks.

And i totally agree with the Catapult being largely inferior to most heavys in the game atm. i like the idea to give the K2 the 9SS ppc quirks but maybe only for standard PPCs. The hitbox of the Catapult would kinda balance that out.

Just my personal observations for Mechs i have a special eye for.

Change the 8Q quirks from PPC to ER PPC
Change 9S quirks from ER PPC to PPC

Done!

Joseph Mallan, on 31 January 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

my problem with this thinking is it is a 20 Ton Mech. It is the Lightest Mech in teh game. Which would by normal logic make it the most fragile platform to use. Right?

I was really thinking 1-2pt armor quirks at most, is all.

[Joseph Mallan]

Burktross, on 31 January 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

Change the 8Q quirks from PPC to ER PPC
Change 9S quirks from ER PPC to PPC

Done!


I was really thinking 1-2pt armor quirks at most, is all.

Ah, not the normal, I should be able to stand toe to toe with Atlas mentality.
Cool

[Macksheen]

Quirks can't solve everything though, and that's where the Quickdraw and Vindicator are. Tall things with low-ish weapons that others get quirked better. Any adjustments they get should be to reduce damage.

Package evaluation is key. The TDR-9S should be brought in-line with the AWS-9M. The cicada and vindicator that get big ERPPC boosts can only mount one, so I'm ok if the ONE thing they can mount is better than someone with 2 or 3. Something with just a weak SRM range boost didn't really get a boost at all, compared to someone who got a cooldown or heat buff - consider the whole picture of the mech and weapon systems.

I can agree with much of what is said above; some things I want to stress. SHDs need a slight tweak up except the K. K2 and Jester are poor. QKD-IV may not be salvageable. I still want to see some GRF with PPC and LRM quirks; same w/ CN9 and LRM quirks because I'm old and remember them for those characteristics. I'd love to see a few mechs get Streak2 buffs, or more mechs with favorable specs for streaks to have more generic missile boosts instead of typed boosts. Flamer quirks on Firestarters.

[Duke Nedo]

Some mechs that need help from the top of my head, not claiming to remember or having played all...

Lct-3s (don't have tonnage for ammo so quirks just wont help..., sold mine)
Rvn-4x (sold mine, it's quirked for mediums and it can only fit 2)
Dragon-5N (needs cooldown)
Flame (I want the Fang quirks! )
X-5 (just a bit underwhelming due to hardpoints)
Kintaros probably (wasnt tempted to try the quirks even)
Victors, all of them (suggest ST armour, make them very XL-friendly)
Battlemasters, all of them (same as victors for me atleast, think they need more ST armour instead of arms was it?)
Atlases, perhaps some more armour for nicheness

[Tarogato]

Duke Nedo, on 31 January 2015 - 08:25 AM, said:

Lct-3s (don't have tonnage for ammo so quirks just wont help..., sold mine)

Shame, it's probably my favourite Locust. It's a mini-Huginn!

LCT-3S / 4x SRM2 + 3t ammo

You could even take out a launcher and a ton of ammo to put in a MPLas.

Mine has horrible k/d but a great w/l. I use it as harasser, to get in and distract assaults and heavier mechs after the main engagement has started. It's just a stream of SRMs and cockpit shake, which is one of the most irritating things on the battlefield.

Edited by Tarogato, 31 January 2015 - 08:35 AM.

[Felio]

SDR-5V

[InRev]

I was going to type out a whole list of things but Tahribator already knocked one out of the park.

Only thing I would add, is I would love seeing Gauss perks on the Protector. It comes with one stock and I think it would add some nice flavor to the chassis. Ofc they would have to be good enough to offset the bomb you're carrying in the ST.

AC/10 K; LBX M; AC/5 V; AC/20 VA; Gauss Protector.

Taste the Ballistic Rainbow.

[HANGMAN1962]

catupolts and not just the k-2.
the a-1 was nerfed to the stone ages from forum whiners and never un nerfed!
then quarks came out and it was silly the little bit of querk love it got.
lets see pgi nerfed its engine size from forum whines then made the arm hitboxs bigger over the broken strk. missiles then pgi fixed strks. to cannon operation[ they now work just like tt] butr left the oped neft in place!
pgi gave the c4 updated armer buf to arms and it still has to torso hardpionts!
so why not give a-1 the arm buff too? seeming "THAT ALL THE A-1S HARDPIONTS ARE IN THE ARMS!"
on a side note an a-1 hero mech w/ a head energy hardpiont would be fantastic just to get a tag in hehehe
if a madcat can go 89kph jump and have 4 str-6s and 6 energy hardpionts why cant an a-1 go 98kph [like it used to]
w/jumpjets and 6 strk-2s?! the madcat has 2 times the strk firepower of the a-1 and 6 energy hardpionts!
give the a-1` its speed back and fix the arms so its viable agian pls pgi.
oh yah the 98kph is w/speedtweek just soo peeps dont get all bodgey over it lols.

[FupDup]

Alistair Winter, on 31 January 2015 - 03:21 AM, said:

All Firestarters are fine. The Ember does NOT need a buff, PGI just needs to bring back MGs to where they were. I don't know why PGI hates flamers and MGs* but players have been asking for both weapons to be buffed for two years now. It's ridiculous.

* Actually, I think PGI intentionally wants to keep flamers and MGs useless because those continuously firing weapons put a lot of stress on the servers. They seem very determined to make those weapons terrible.

The official reason for the MGs is that they're afraid a 6 MG Spider would have a devastating effect on the back of an Atlas.



Flamers though could be anyone's guess.

[Alistair Winter]

FupDup, on 31 January 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

The official reason for the MGs is that they're afraid a 6 MG Spider would have a devastating effect on the back of an Atlas.

Flamers though could be anyone's guess.

I've heard whispers that the dreaded Heat Neutral Jenner that St. Paul the Normalized warned us about... was in fact armed with flamers.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 31 January 2015 - 09:22 AM.

[FupDup]

Alistair Winter, on 31 January 2015 - 09:22 AM, said:

I've heard whispers that the dreaded Heat Neutral Jenner that St. Paul the Normalized warned us about... was in fact armed with flamers.

It all makes so much sense now...

[saKhan Steiner Lawl Kerensky]

When the Thunderbolt fires PPC's better than Awesome, and you're all ok with that... is when you all need to re-evalute your bias.

Until people wake the hell up and, if anything, use quirks so that it makes the original loadouts of the mechs do as well or better than Meta Theorycrafting then why even bother doing it? It's honestly stupid to take a mech, and only cater to meta-comp crowd so that quirks make meta better? That's not even remotely balancing, but rather quite the opposite. It's unimaginative bottle-necking so that people are forced to play with a specific meta mentality. How's that mentality supposed to help mech and gameplay diversity?