88 replies to this topic

[UnHolyLegion]

Malfrost, on 05 February 2015 - 11:22 PM, said:

Hey I understand your frustration, I have a weird schedule and most of my clan/group run at different times than I do, as a result, I run a lot of solo drops. I agree its probably 75-80% chance you are going to lose when its just a bunch of pubbers vs a large organized voice chat premade drop in CW.

That said, we can win, it usually takes a little bit of initiative of people calling out some basic strategy and giving out some essential heads up, but it happens. I've won a few matches against those organized drops. But I agree it would be nice for a little bit more of a pubber vs pubber option for people like you and me.

But beyond all this, I have to level some criticism. You know what definitely makes us lose? Guys like you calling out bull**** in team chat and dropping out of the game, thanks a lot, your temper tantrum takes our slim chance of victory and whittles it down even more. Like I said its frustrating, but you do realize you are screwing over the other 11 guys on your team right? I've seen it happen twice in my last 4 drops, and in BOTH of those matches it was a close game. One we actually won, and the other one I feel like having an extra 240 tons of mechs sure woulda helped.

Just my opinion, but you dropping out of the matches does absolutely NOTHING to "inspire the devs to change" and absolutely EVERYTHING to screw your team over.

This!!


If you don't want to get roflstomped stop dropping in CW since your almost guaranteed to fight against a 12 man premade group. I haven't dropped ONCE in CW because I don't have time to devote to a group but I still drop in the PUG queue when I can get on which is one day a week 2 if im LUCKY. Do often wish i could drop in a pre-made group?....yes. Do I have an endless amount of frustrating PUG matches? ummm yeah, but I don't come complaining to the forums demanding PGI fix CW for me because I cannot join a group/don't have time to play regularly. AND you refuse to join a group, kinda shooting yourself in the foot there buddy . The amount of whining on the forums about this is unreal.

On a side note it is not hard to download/install TS3 (free), go to a groups server which they advertise to see if yall can get along( not everyone out there is a super tryhard ****head). If not move on the next group. When I had hours a day to play I joined a group on the suggestion from a friend from another MMO, one filled with pretty decent people at that (guess I got lucky). Sure I didnt understand their inside jokes, but I didnt stomp my feet like a 5 yr. old saying CW sucks because I don't want to group up.

[Euphoric1RW]

So I get it, you don't want to get involved in a group, so whether you pug solo on pub drops or CW, you are going to have difficulty getting any team organization, after all this is a 12 v 12 team experience and community warfare is COMMUNITY, meaning team effort, so good luck to you.

I guess you and others can complain until PGI caters the game to your liking. Personally I like stomping pugs so I hope nothing changes.

[Lily from animove]

because CW is basically a instanced version of RvR and in any RvR game its all vs all, and so premades are versus pugs. Thats why.

Don't wanna play a teambased game as a team? go and play solo queue. otherwise accept that in apure pug match you will mostlikely have troubles. Yet not every pugmatch ends like this.

[Prawfutt]

Jade Falcons have a open community warfare comms for all Falcon units. We broadcast it to our pugs whenever we are not a full 12man which is actually the majority of the time. you do not have to join a unit to join an open coms similar to ours. you do not have to devote 8 hours a day. you do not have to run meta builds. you do not even have to talk. the only thing you DO have to do is take an extra 10 seconds to open TS and LISTEN.

If you listen to the person leading the drop your chance for success skyrockets.
you will not be left behind when they call for a push (provided you do not ignore the order)
you will know what enemies the team is shooting at. (Alpha CT cored, one shot to finish)
you will hear people calling targets that your hud does not display due to ecm (ECM raven peeking behind us)
you will know where the next wave is regrouping at (gonna push gamma gate this time)
you will know if you are playing attrition or objective (ignore gens kill mechs!)

Now I am going to quote myself here because if you do not take the 10 extra seconds to join TS then this is what you are likely playing against.

Quote

If you listen to the person leading the drop your chance for success skyrockets.
you will not be left behind when they call for a push (provided you do not ignore the order)
you will know what enemies the team is shooting at. (Alpha CT cored, one shot to finish)
you will hear people calling targets that your hud does not display due to ecm (ECM raven peeking behind us)
you will know where the next wave is regrouping at (gonna push gamma gate this time)
you will know if you are playing attrition or objective (ignore gens kill mechs!)

That is the difference of 10 seconds to activate TS.

Which side do you want to be on?

[Surn]

A good commander can lead his group through difficult circumstances. A great commander avoids those troubles. The difference comes down to simplicity and clarity of vision.
This is why I have been endeavoring to find simple, effective pug tactics that do not require coms and timing. Maybe it is impossible or imperfect, but that is really what our old league had and CW so far lacks.
Thus far, in the drops I lead without coms, my simple plan is making pug vs 12 man closer and on some occasions we win. I am posting my match out comes in another thread and your participation and feedback are very welcome.

Edited by MechregSurn, 06 February 2015 - 09:57 AM.

[Jacob Side]

Dam you Roadbeer! I nearly spit out my coffee

[Chef Kerensky]

MechregSurn, on 06 February 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

A good commander can lead his group through difficult circumstances. A great commander avoids those troubles. The difference comes down to simplicity and clarity of vision.
This is why I have been endeavoring to find simple, effective pug tactics that do not require coms and timing.

Okay, I'm sorry, I have to stop you here. What do these sentiments have to do with one another? Are you trying to say that a team that doesn't move together or speak to one another is a team that is "keeping it simple? " Please don't teach people that foregoing timed waves and basic communication is going to cut it. It's not.

[DukeRustfield]

So I've done maybe a dozen CWs and I'm clearly not the only person with my POV. Since I'm pugging, I'm usually joining other pugs. And we often (I'd guess 75% ish) face off vs. premades. So first death or even before, people start dropping from game. And it just snowballs because if the pug had a slightly-more-than-zero chance of winning, now that we're down men, it creeps closer to 0.

I just dropped out of another game right now. It's not fun. I'm not playing a game that isn't fun. No one else will either. It's not rocket science. Why on earth would anyone bash their face into a wall for 30 mins with a near guaranteed failure rate?

You can hype and rant and TS and grind your teeth about how zomg people are supposed to clan up. But they won't. It won't happen. It will never happen. That hasn't been this game since the very start, you're not going to change it now. Hop in random games, hop in solo queues, count up the clans. Count up the completely unfactioned people. People just want to play some battletech including the aspect that had been advertised for YEARS. Which, btw, didn't have a list of prereqs. So either CW stays a pile of **** or they actually look to see who wants to play it.

[MischiefSC]

ChefGerstmann, on 06 February 2015 - 06:57 AM, said:

I agree completely. An increase in house loyalist participation would also probably mean we'd see less influence from wherever the megamerc cartels decide to drop that week.

In fact I'd argue that if a Steam release is really inevitable it would very much be in PGI's best interests to create some kind of lobby system first to help facilitate migrating the massive influx of new players into CW and the game as a whole.

Speaking of house loyalists, the current system of 'being a house loyalist means you get the opportunity to earn less LP bonuses, hurrah!' sucks. Needs to be *significant* perks to being a house loyalist that increase on a curve over time based on participation. Units need a tracked 'collective LP rank' in a faction. It's a simple but relevant way to show a loyalist units value to their house. Also back to a fix for the incredibly terrible IS/Clan border issue; let house loyalist units invite non-faction players or even units to be able to defend their borders based on their house loyalty rank. So NS, for example, that's been grinding Kurita LP since day 1 of CW would be able invite whole units to fight on the Kurita border. NKVA, being newer and having less total Kurita LP might only be able to invite individual players until they reach a certain threshold. Whoever gives the invite can revoke it at any time.

This would also create an 'increasing scale' of support for houses with Clan borders as CW moves forward. The more loyalist units with a house the more 'unit loyalty LP' they have to spend inviting others to help, the more help they can get. Given the huge time investment in getting unit LP you make any sort of trolling via this nearly impossible or at least incredibly stupid.

So a lobby to help units in CW connect with people pugging in CW, a unit LP system and restrictions on who can drop on Clan/IS borders and the ability to spend unit coffers to help new unit members. This would remove the pug-grinder shithole that is currently the Clan/IS border, put in the foundation of a worthwhile perk to being a loyalist unit and give units useful tools to onboard newer players and get them up to speed.

Releasing MW:O on Steam without all of that strikes me as an invitation to end up like X:Rebirth.

[Revis Volek]

DukeRustfield, on 06 February 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

So I've done maybe a dozen CWs and I'm clearly not the only person with my POV. Since I'm pugging, I'm usually joining other pugs. And we often (I'd guess 75% ish) face off vs. premades. So first death or even before, people start dropping from game. And it just snowballs because if the pug had a slightly-more-than-zero chance of winning, now that we're down men, it creeps closer to 0.

I just dropped out of another game right now. It's not fun. I'm not playing a game that isn't fun. No one else will either. It's not rocket science. Why on earth would anyone bash their face into a wall for 30 mins with a near guaranteed failure rate?

You can hype and rant and TS and grind your teeth about how zomg people are supposed to clan up. But they won't. It won't happen. It will never happen. That hasn't been this game since the very start, you're not going to change it now. Hop in random games, hop in solo queues, count up the clans. Count up the completely unfactioned people. People just want to play some battletech including the aspect that had been advertised for YEARS. Which, btw, didn't have a list of prereqs. So either CW stays a pile of **** or they actually look to see who wants to play it.

Man you are salty....

Seems that you are looking for a different game then 99.9% of the people looking to play in CW. This is a team game weather you want to believe it or not is really not important.

PGI and the helpful ones in this forums have given you all the tools you need to have a higher W/L ratio but you refuse to use it. Which really baffles me....PGI is also adding VOIP and other things to help SOLO and CASUAL players get on the same level as those in large units. But you still say no and then think you will be owed something for not playing the game mode the way it is setup....if you dont follow the rules and guidelines of anything you chance of success will drop....weather its driving somewhere you never been without directions or buying crappy furniture from IKEA and throwing the assembly instructions away before you decide to put it together.

You have a 50/50 shot at best even before you got started....then not using the things the rest of us use to win drops your chances even more. I dont get how this is hard to understand and as the sayin goes.....

Team up or Get Rekt!

You say No one is teaming up...and they wont. But since CW started our Unit has doubled in size. Can you explain that to me?

The world does not cater to you, nor does this game. Follow the rules or have a bad time! What is so hard to understand about that? There are 3 other modes for you to solo and derp around all you want.

Edited by DarthRevis, 06 February 2015 - 12:33 PM.

[wanderer]

Why? Because a planetary queue can't have separation between 12 PUGs and a 12-man. Otherwise, in some cases it'd simply result in ghost drops all around, and that's absolutely stupid.

At best, I think you'd be able to redesign queues to allow a maximum of 4 PUGs per, with all others being in groups of some kind. That'd mitigate the effects of having utterly useless mobs of players "defending" a planet.

And as for PUGs?

You don't have to join a unit. Get into faction group. Use a TS (most factions are friendly towards people doing so- Liao surely is, and Marik has made it an artform) room. Your effectiveness increases considerably.

Edited by wanderer, 06 February 2015 - 12:39 PM.

[Chef Kerensky]

MischiefSC, on 06 February 2015 - 12:23 PM, said:

Speaking of house loyalists, the current system of 'being a house loyalist means you get the opportunity to earn less LP bonuses, hurrah!' sucks. Needs to be *significant* perks to being a house loyalist that increase on a curve over time based on participation. Units need a tracked 'collective LP rank' in a faction. It's a simple but relevant way to show a loyalist units value to their house. Also back to a fix for the incredibly terrible IS/Clan border issue; let house loyalist units invite non-faction players or even units to be able to defend their borders based on their house loyalty rank. So NS, for example, that's been grinding Kurita LP since day 1 of CW would be able invite whole units to fight on the Kurita border. NKVA, being newer and having less total Kurita LP might only be able to invite individual players until they reach a certain threshold. Whoever gives the invite can revoke it at any time.

This would also create an 'increasing scale' of support for houses with Clan borders as CW moves forward. The more loyalist units with a house the more 'unit loyalty LP' they have to spend inviting others to help, the more help they can get. Given the huge time investment in getting unit LP you make any sort of trolling via this nearly impossible or at least incredibly stupid.

So a lobby to help units in CW connect with people pugging in CW, a unit LP system and restrictions on who can drop on Clan/IS borders and the ability to spend unit coffers to help new unit members. This would remove the pug-grinder shithole that is currently the Clan/IS border, put in the foundation of a worthwhile perk to being a loyalist unit and give units useful tools to onboard newer players and get them up to speed.

Releasing MW:O on Steam without all of that strikes me as an invitation to end up like X:Rebirth.

I agree.

[WarHippy]

DukeRustfield, on 06 February 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

So I've done maybe a dozen CWs and I'm clearly not the only person with my POV. Since I'm pugging, I'm usually joining other pugs. And we often (I'd guess 75% ish) face off vs. premades. So first death or even before, people start dropping from game. And it just snowballs because if the pug had a slightly-more-than-zero chance of winning, now that we're down men, it creeps closer to 0.

I just dropped out of another game right now. It's not fun. I'm not playing a game that isn't fun. No one else will either. It's not rocket science. Why on earth would anyone bash their face into a wall for 30 mins with a near guaranteed failure rate?

You can hype and rant and TS and grind your teeth about how zomg people are supposed to clan up. But they won't. It won't happen. It will never happen. That hasn't been this game since the very start, you're not going to change it now. Hop in random games, hop in solo queues, count up the clans. Count up the completely unfactioned people. People just want to play some battletech including the aspect that had been advertised for YEARS. Which, btw, didn't have a list of prereqs. So either CW stays a pile of **** or they actually look to see who wants to play it.

I'm going to keep this short since this has been debated before. I am a solo player and I like it the way it is. The fate of planets should not be left in the hands of us solo players as we are just filler, but that doesn't mean we can't play an important role in the bigger picture. Is it hard to win against full 12 mans? Yes, but it is also pretty fun giving it your all and sometimes surprising those 12 man groups. VOIP is coming and that will help a great deal if people let it, but complaining and giving up before the first shot is fired like you are doing is the real reason us pugs are doing as poorly as we do. Do yourself a favor and stop it with the defeatist attitude.

[UnHolyLegion]

Does anyone else envision a 10 year old stomping his feet in the corner pouting??

Dude..... there is still the PUG queue if you want to.... you know PLAY PUG matches

PS: comming from a pugger who doesn't ruin CW games

EDIT: Typed "PUG games" -> pick up games games?

Edited by UnHolyLegion, 06 February 2015 - 01:51 PM.

[Prawfutt]

UnHolyLegion, on 06 February 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

Does anyone else envision a 10 year old stomping his feet in the corner pouting??

100% agree. my 10 yr old throws his little tantrums too.

I offered advice on how to improve. you rejected it. So now I offer this.

[Wingbreaker]

Just because there are generally more pugs than there are groups doesn't mean the mode wasn't made for group play. PGI has been specific about it, and stuck to the group mechanic for CW. 12 mans have priority to drop, groups have bragging rights applied to the planets per wins, and the queue system even reflects this emphasis.

I'm sorry, bro, but you're gonna have to put your big boy britches on and learn to be social or go back to open queue.

[Gas Guzzler]

DukeRustfield, on 06 February 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

So I've done maybe a dozen CWs and I'm clearly not the only person with my POV. Since I'm pugging, I'm usually joining other pugs. And we often (I'd guess 75% ish) face off vs. premades. So first death or even before, people start dropping from game. And it just snowballs because if the pug had a slightly-more-than-zero chance of winning, now that we're down men, it creeps closer to 0.

I just dropped out of another game right now. It's not fun. I'm not playing a game that isn't fun. No one else will either. It's not rocket science. Why on earth would anyone bash their face into a wall for 30 mins with a near guaranteed failure rate?

You can hype and rant and TS and grind your teeth about how zomg people are supposed to clan up. But they won't. It won't happen. It will never happen. That hasn't been this game since the very start, you're not going to change it now. Hop in random games, hop in solo queues, count up the clans. Count up the completely unfactioned people. People just want to play some battletech including the aspect that had been advertised for YEARS. Which, btw, didn't have a list of prereqs. So either CW stays a pile of **** or they actually look to see who wants to play it.

Community warfare requires coordination. There isn't enough CW population to have a solo CW queue and group CW queue so just get that out of your head. If you INSIST on not talking to people on TS or joining a group, then the solo public queue is over there. Have fun.

I don't see why you think CW is garbage other then it doesn't cater to what you and a couple other anti-social solo droppers want it to be. All you have to do is download teamspeak, join the house teamspeak server (House Kurita has one, all are welcome), and reach out to some people.

Also, deliberately dropping out of matches and not participating is against the TOS, so please don't do that.

[NocturnalBeast]

DukeRustfield, on 05 February 2015 - 05:39 PM, said:

Simple as that.

I took off from MWO for maybe 6+ months. I had been in a clan, done synch drops. It was cool for a bit. But I'm a bit too casual for it all and don't have much time.u

So I come back and see community warfare up. Nice. I used some of my ancient MC and credits to get up to speed. I played some normal games first so I wasn't horrible. Then I jumped in, saw it was an entire enemy team of one clan vs. our pubs.

We got slaughtered. The same thing happened next game. Then the game after. All different clans.

To head off the pat answer of: join a clan. I don't want to. I've been in one. Done it. Over it.

A significant selling point of this game had always been community warfare. But 30 mins is a long time when there's about an 80% chance of defeat. And to head off the other pat answer of: you can still win. Sure. Just like an atlas with one small laser and nothing else can totally defeat a fully armed one. It's just extremely unlikely.

There's not much I can do except vote with my feet. And by that I mean drop out of the game every time it's a clan. Eventually the devs will have to do something.

This is a seriously tired arguement, it is because MWO is a team game and you choose not to join one of the many units of any faction in MWO and download a free VOIP program to join them on comms.

Edited by Ed Steele, 06 February 2015 - 06:51 PM.

[Stoned Prophet]

DukeRustfield, on 05 February 2015 - 05:39 PM, said:

Simple as that.

I took off from MWO for maybe 6+ months. I had been in a clan, done synch drops. It was cool for a bit. But I'm a bit too casual for it all and don't have much time.

So I come back and see community warfare up. Nice. I used some of my ancient MC and credits to get up to speed. I played some normal games first so I wasn't horrible. Then I jumped in, saw it was an entire enemy team of one clan vs. our pubs.

We got slaughtered. The same thing happened next game. Then the game after. All different clans.

To head off the pat answer of: join a clan. I don't want to. I've been in one. Done it. Over it.

A significant selling point of this game had always been community warfare. But 30 mins is a long time when there's about an 80% chance of defeat. And to head off the other pat answer of: you can still win. Sure. Just like an atlas with one small laser and nothing else can totally defeat a fully armed one. It's just extremely unlikely.

There's not much I can do except vote with my feet. And by that I mean drop out of the game every time it's a clan. Eventually the devs will have to do something.

CW IS NOT FOR PUBS IT IS FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT HARDMODE AND A CHALLENGE IF YOU ARE NOT READY TO WORK YOUR ASS OFF TO WI. YOU DONT BELONG THERE.

Tldr CW NOT FOR CASUALS

[Stoned Prophet]

DukeRustfield, on 05 February 2015 - 07:26 PM, said:

Community warfare was never defined as any of that. It was simply COMMUNITY warfare. If they wanted to call it Clan warfare or team warfare or esport warfare or any of the vast number of combinations that signifies what you're hinting it is, then they could have from the start.

You can view the CW page and there is zero mention of anything you said. They repeatedly mention the player. What each player does in CW.

I'm in a game right now. Well, quit from one. Because it was another premade vs. pub which can't be fun for anyone. So it's easy enough to **** all over CW so the queue times jump up.

This was THE main draws of this game. If it is for esporters clans only, it's of no interest to probably 90% of the planet's gamers. This is a free game.

Rus has stated T least 3 times cw is supposed to be hard mode for competitive groups. The same competitive groups thT asked and asked for it while we played mrbc rhod and the like for the last two years. Educate yourself on the topic.before you wmake such statements.