88 replies to this topic

[NocturnalBeast]

Stoned Prophet, on 06 February 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

CW IS NOT FOR PUBS IT IS FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT HARDMODE AND A CHALLENGE IF YOU ARE NOT READY TO WORK YOUR ASS OFF TO WI. YOU DONT BELONG THERE.

Tldr CW NOT FOR CASUALS

I would like this multiple times if I could!

[Stoned Prophet]

DukeRustfield, on 06 February 2015 - 07:11 PM, said:

Wow, holy cow you sound like a tough guy! I bet you lift weights. And when you save enough from your Dairy Queen job you'll buy a camaro! Seriously, tough guy. My fear is so fearful of your tough guyness that I can barely type. Teamkilling will totally scare people. I'm serious. The world is thinking how tough a tough guy you are for saying that. But, you know, back in reality. No one gives a rat's ass about you, silly boy. Shoot away.


Yes, that is a tired argument. It IS a team game. Team game != clan game. You see how that works? Clan. Team. Those aren't synonyms. They aren't approximations. You have never been forced or remotely forced or hinted to join a clan in this game. Vast swaths of content haven't been removed whether or not you got a clan. Like I said, I've been in clans in MWO. The game was still the game. I came back to see CW as long promised and see it has diverged from the rest of the game. Let's point that out again: the entire rest of the game since day one. We were supposed to be in a holding pattern until CW. All this stuff was just fun and fluff until CW.

Their advertisements for CW don't state "oh, and btw, if you're not premade, you're assed." I'm going to bet a few million spacebucks it won't say it in Steam either.

So, you know, I encourage all those who don't like boring CW to join and drop. Despite the whines, it WILL force the devs to address it. Though watch out for the tough guys!

All clans are teams, but not all teams are clans. Your argument is invalid. Please have a nice day

[Wingbreaker]

Eh. Op ignored substantive posts for the easy shots.

I call troll.

[oldradagast]

To answer the OP's question, there is no "good" reason to mix PUG's and casuals into teams and produce pointless, 1-sided games regularly, but I'll sum up the major lines of reasoning defending this obvious problem:

1) Macho Memory: These folks love to talk about how "hard" they had it and how "tough" they are, yet - unlike civilization as a whole - they want to make sure the next generation has it even harder then they did. For this reason, they are opposed to anything that makes CW easier for lesser players because, "MWO sucked for me, so it should suck for you!" Of course, if we followed their nutty logic, we'd all still be living in trees since living in caves and using fire is "coddling" and "makes you weak!"

2) People who don't understand people: These folks honestly think that stomping somebody over and over again will "teach" them something, despite the simple fact that nothing is successfully taught in such a fashion. Nobody teaches calculus successfully by just handing out tests and failing people. Nobody teaches football by putting a pick-up squad against an NFL team.

3) I like it this way, so you should, too! These folks like the current setup, but the problem is that they feel nobody else should have any options - everyone should have to play CW they way THEY do... because THEY like it. These types often tie into points 1 and 2 in that they tend to mix in "Life is tough, but I'm tougher" rhetoric to justify a horrible gaming experience, or they think that because they "got serious in CW" after being stomped, everyone will.

4) Those without honor: Self-proclaimed "elite" who like rolling PUG's. Most of their excuses fall very close to justifying crime because "the victim had it coming / was asking for it" - except their defense is, "Well if you're not on coms / in a team / leet I should be able to stomp you as often as I like."

Edited by oldradagast, 06 February 2015 - 07:50 PM.

[oldradagast]

Stoned Prophet, on 06 February 2015 - 07:29 PM, said:

Rus has stated T least 3 times cw is supposed to be hard mode for competitive groups. The same competitive groups thT asked and asked for it while we played mrbc rhod and the like for the last two years. Educate yourself on the topic.before you wmake such statements.

Bah - if they were serious about it being "hard-core mode," they wouldn't have it set up to hand-out free wins over PUG's and small, casual groups like candy to spoiled tryhards. That's like claiming the Super Bowl is the place of the truly elite - and then pitting an NFL team against a low-end high school football team for the Big Game.

It's a joke, and we all know it. But they can't lock the casuals and small groups out of CW because the game lacks the population to make such a decision.

So, if they are "stuck" having to do something with PUG's and casuals in CW, maybe they should TRY to make the gaming experience actually fun for them... because if it continues to stink as badly as it does, they'll all leave... which would be a problem since there's not enough other people around to make CW worth supporting for long from a business perspective.

pwnface, on 06 February 2015 - 07:51 PM, said:

[Redacted]

[Redacted]

Edited by GM Patience, 13 February 2015 - 12:45 PM.
insults

[pwnface]

oldradagast, on 06 February 2015 - 07:49 PM, said:

To answer the OP's question, there is no "good" reason to mix PUG's and casuals into teams and produce pointless, 1-sided games regularly, but I'll sum up the major lines of reasoning defending this obvious problem:

1) Macho Memory: These folks love to talk about how "hard" they had it and how "tough" they are, yet - unlike civilization as a whole - they want to make sure the next generation has it even harder then they did. For this reason, they are opposed to anything that makes CW easier for lesser players because, "MWO sucked for me, so it should suck for you!" Of course, if we followed their nutty logic, we'd all still be living in trees since living in caves and using fire is "coddling" and "makes you weak!"

Analogy is flawed here, players not wanting to join a team or use teamspeak are the idiots not willing to use fire when everyone else is holding a torch. Playing on a team in a team-based game makes winning easier. DUH.

2) People who don't understand people: These folks honestly think that stomping somebody over and over again will "teach" them something, despite the simple fact that nothing is successfully taught in such a fashion. Nobody teaches calculus successfully by just handing out tests and failing people. Nobody teaches football by putting a pick-up squad against an NFL team.

Analogy is flawed here, if you don't want to study for your calculus test, why should you pass? After failing your calculus multiple times, why wouldn't you study so you can actually pass?? Community Warfare is the NFL of football. If you don't want to get stomped on you need to get better at football and/or join an NFL team.

3) I like it this way, so you should, too! These folks like the current setup, but the problem is that they feel nobody else should have any options - everyone should have to play CW they way THEY do... because THEY like it. These types often tie into points 1 and 2 in that they tend to mix in "Life is tough, but I'm tougher" rhetoric to justify a horrible gaming experience, or they think that because they "got serious in CW" after being stomped, everyone will.

If you don't like playing seriously, then go play in non-CW drops. To say that you don't have the OPTION to NOT PLAY CW is incorrect. Not all content needs to cater to all players.

4) Those without honor: Self-proclaimed "elite" who like rolling PUG's. Most of their excuses fall very close to justifying crime because "the victim had it coming / was asking for it" - except their defense is, "Well if you're not on coms / in a team / leet I should be able to stomp you as often as I like."

It is your CHOICE to queue up for Community Warfare. Some people enjoy the challenge of trying to solo in CW, most don't. PUGS CAN WIN AGAINST PREMADES. Yes, it is significantly more difficult but it is possible. I've seen many solo players racking up 3000+ damage a match and lose against a premade but these guys hardly complain about solo CW being too hard.

[Stoned Prophet]

oldradagast, on 06 February 2015 - 07:49 PM, said:

To answer the OP's question, there is no "good" reason to mix PUG's and casuals into teams and produce pointless, 1-sided games regularly, but I'll sum up the major lines of reasoning defending this obvious problem:

1) Macho Memory: These folks love to talk about how "hard" they had it and how "tough" they are, yet - unlike civilization as a whole - they want to make sure the next generation has it even harder then they did. For this reason, they are opposed to anything that makes CW easier for lesser players because, "MWO sucked for me, so it should suck for you!" Of course, if we followed their nutty logic, we'd all still be living in trees since living in caves and using fire is "coddling" and "makes you weak!"

2) People who don't understand people: These folks honestly think that stomping somebody over and over again will "teach" them something, despite the simple fact that nothing is successfully taught in such a fashion. Nobody teaches calculus successfully by just handing out tests and failing people. Nobody teaches football by putting a pick-up squad against an NFL team.

3) I like it this way, so you should, too! These folks like the current setup, but the problem is that they feel nobody else should have any options - everyone should have to play CW they way THEY do... because THEY like it. These types often tie into points 1 and 2 in that they tend to mix in "Life is tough, but I'm tougher" rhetoric to justify a horrible gaming experience, or they think that because they "got serious in CW" after being stomped, everyone will.

4) Those without honor: Self-proclaimed "elite" who like rolling PUG's. Most of their excuses fall very close to justifying crime because "the victim had it coming / was asking for it" - except their defense is, "Well if you're not on coms / in a team / leet I should be able to stomp you as often as I like."

Ah yes the ONLY reasons are these nafarious motives. It cant be that we WANT a challenge pug groups just CANT PROVIDE for the most part.

Stop acting like all premades want to stomp pugs and so dont want to make it easier for them. This is simply not true. We just want something that isnt dumbed down that makes it fun to go up against other people who want a challenge.

pwnface, on 06 February 2015 - 07:51 PM, said:

[Redacted]

You misspelled Mudhut...

[Flashover23]

Not always a wipeout. Today a mix of C4, RRB, HHoD, and some other pugs held off attacks from TCAF twice in a row. Even without everyone in comms, we kept it together and stopped them from taking more territory.

I couldn't stick around to see if we rolled them back and kept the planet, but using teamwork beating 10-12 mans can be done.

Edited by Flashover23, 06 February 2015 - 08:25 PM.

[HARDKOR]

OP should be banned. He just said he's been joining and intentionally DCing if he doesn't like the look of the other team.

[Chef Kerensky]

If you want an option for more viable solo queue play in CW, ask PGI to speed up the VOIP and to add a lobby system so you can coordinate with the same team game after game. If you think that typing out orders to 12 random people in a public match who can't even coordinate which mechs they're dropping and when constitutes "teamplay," please get off my faction's borders.

Edited by ChefGerstmann, 07 February 2015 - 12:33 PM.

[Roadbeer]

ChefGerstmann, on 07 February 2015 - 12:32 PM, said:

If you want an option for more viable solo queue play in CW, ask PGI to speed up the VOIP and to add a lobby system so you can coordinate with the same team game after game. If you think that typing out orders to 12 random people in a public match who can't even coordinate which mechs they're dropping and when constitutes "teamplay," please get off my faction's borders.

1.5 weeks isn't soon enough?

[Chef Kerensky]

Roadbeer, on 07 February 2015 - 12:44 PM, said:

1.5 weeks isn't soon enough?

Not for some, it seems.

[Xetelian]

I know someone will say it isn't so but I lost my way to rank 4 on 2 factions before I quit for good.


I haven't gotten around to joining a unit but I mostly solo queue.

Edited by Xetelian, 07 February 2015 - 12:55 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

ChefGerstmann, on 05 February 2015 - 09:24 PM, said:

Perhaps not, but he does raise an interesting point - a lobby system could mitigate a lot of pug woes in CW and arguably allow for on-the-fly coordination. It might not match up to a real 12-man premade, but most of us are hurting for numbers badly enough that it certainly couldn't hurt.

Davers, on 05 February 2015 - 08:19 PM, said:

VOIP Feb 17.
The ability to add friends and create groups has been in since since Beta.
PGI never said this was going to be a lobby game.

Lobby/bar/sector, minor/major faction lobby, etc, that a lobby of some sort has not been added for an access online game with factions and a small teams is counter to how the previous versions of MPBT conducted business, players communicating with each other. Right now the lobbies are 3rd party programs, the units/faction teamspeak servers. This game, particularly the CW, requires team work, from both veteran units and ad hoc units. Ad hoc units that are able to stick together for more than one drop can continue to improve on the next drop and the one after that.

The ability to add friends is haphazard and needs a huge change. Lobbies would enhance things immensely while also improving in-combat chat UI. I can not count the number of times during a pug match that I missed crucial information until after the fact.

A number of units and personnel here today come such environments, 10 to 20 years ago, where without VOIP they had the ability to communicate effectively in game, get a measure of each other and put things together. And for CW to be what it needs to be, with both the number of players and type of players, the ability to communicate effectively in game with not only your own unit but also your own House/Clan and eventually with others, there needs to be better in-game communication that does not rest simply on VOIP.

What we do not know is how difficult will it be to add and improve on it once/if it appears, from both an engineer and coding aspect with the current game engine?

[NocturnalBeast]

ChefGerstmann, on 07 February 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

Not for some, it seems.

Yes, PGI needs to drop everything so they can cater to players who whine about how disorganized their solo-drop teammates are and yet refuse to join an organized unit at the same time.

Tarl Cabot, on 07 February 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

Lobby/bar/sector, minor/major faction lobby, etc, that a lobby of some sort has not been added for an access online game with factions and a small teams is counter to how the previous versions of MPBT conducted business, players communicating with each other. Right now the lobbies are 3rd party programs, the units/faction teamspeak servers. This game, particularly the CW, requires team work, from both veteran units and ad hoc units. Ad hoc units that are able to stick together for more than one drop can continue to improve on the next drop and the one after that.

The ability to add friends is haphazard and needs a huge change. Lobbies would enhance things immensely while also improving in-combat chat UI. I can not count the number of times during a pug match that I missed crucial information until after the fact.

A number of units and personnel here today come such environments, 10 to 20 years ago, where without VOIP they had the ability to communicate effectively in game, get a measure of each other and put things together. And for CW to be what it needs to be, with both the number of players and type of players, the ability to communicate effectively in game with not only your own unit but also your own House/Clan and eventually with others, there needs to be better in-game communication that does not rest simply on VOIP.

What we do not know is how difficult will it be to add and improve on it once/if it appears, from both an engineer and coding aspect with the current game engine?

So dumb the interface down even more for the inept and lazy?

[Don Alosi]

A new player reading this topic is sure to have a beautiful impression of the game...

[Roadbeer]

Don Alosi, on 07 February 2015 - 01:22 PM, said:

A new player reading this topic is sure to have a beautiful impression of the game...

I wouldn't worry too much.

If you believe everyone crying "Won't someone think of the n00bs", they're incapable of finding their way to the forums, smurfy, a faction website, TS download page, etc,etc, etc...

[NocturnalBeast]

Don Alosi, on 07 February 2015 - 01:22 PM, said:

A new player reading this topic is sure to have a beautiful impression of the game...

We have been told numerous times that no one reads the forums except "white knights" and "whiners" anyway and that we are only a "vocal minority".

[CantHandletheTruth]

Ed Steele, on 07 February 2015 - 02:37 PM, said:

We have been told numerous times that no one reads the forums except "white knights" and "whiners" anyway and that we are only a "vocal minority".

By PGI no less.

[Marklee]

The lobby should help. I always hop on someone's TS channel but in game voip could be helpful as well.