19 replies to this topic

[Ljusdahl]

Problems:

- Boating C-SSRM's is too effective versus lights, and lack any other use.

- Skill input barely affects power output at all. MWO SHOULD have weapons with high power to (low)skill ratio, but not this much and not only versus one weight class.

- IS-SSRM's are pretty weak.

- No tactical variety. Just lock on and fire.

Solution:

Limit streaks in how well they can adjust their trajectory to their target.

IS streaks have a turning radius of 60m.

Clan streaks increase linearly in turning radius as they travel, from 30m turn radius at 0m to
90m at 360m. This makes them lethal against lights at close range, but wary light pilots might evade them at a distance.
The gradient shift in homingness makes it better at shooting FROM cover, rather than hitting enemies IN cover.

Above numbers may be too low/high, it's hard to say without testing. The idea is that it should be possible to shake off SSRM's if you're in a fast light 'mech and move perpendicular to the streaks(sideways). The attacker would either have to lead their shots(and risk firing into obstacles), or wait for the target to either slow down or move more in parallel to the attacker's angle.

However, it also allows some degree of indirect firing! You may be able to fire over and around terrain and allies as long as locks are kept and the missiles are able to turn fast enough to track the target.

[MovinTarget]

Not a bad idea, love the visual examples!

I guess the major contention is that some would say while they are too OP against lights, they are about the *ONLY* thing that can hit high speed lights with a degree of accuracy...

Edited by MovinTarget, 12 February 2015 - 06:43 AM.

[Lily from animove]

they aren'T that powerfull, try to streak down a light in the testinground, they are truly bad wepaons. light pilots mostly haven't figured out how to correctly "eat" streaks to avoid eating them in the same seciong. because if a light pilot twists away he will eat all streaks in the arm/sidetorsi, which is devasting.

[Karl Streiger]

They should have this solution for every missile weapon.

as lily mentioned the random spread for those missiles make them total terrible for everything but light mechs.

a tighter spread and the necessity to lead the shot won't affect shooting at lights.
After a look on the very nice drawings i would guess this idea make the trajectory for the missiles better controllable for the user.
You don't hit obstacles if you can "lead" the shot.

[Baron Cunedda Kell]

I agree, they should be changed, but just the other direction.... Example: Last night, I was in a Streak Crow and a spider jumped me....with his ECM on... yes I had Clan active Probe....and it took me forever to take him down....his movement, ability to get away from the range of the missiles and other factors showed me...that they clan streaks are not up to par against lights... and yeah, he put a hurt on me..with his weapons... IMO Inner Sphere Lights.... can and do on a regular basis, EAT for lunch, Clan Lights and most of the bigger mechs... tbh...I fear lights than I do anything other mech in this game....

[Grimolfr]

I see no big issue with streaks at the moment. But as for dealing with lights, if you can hit them with decent accuracy, use pulse boats over ssrm boats.

[Nightmare1]

Streaks = powerful anti-Light weapon, useless anti-anything-bigger-than-a-Light weapon.

Frankly, I think they're just fine as they are, but would like to see TAG and NARC homing added into the mix. In other words, let the Streaks home to wherever I am Tagging. That would improve their usefulness against larger Mechs like Heavies and Assaults. The same can be said of NARCs. If I NARC a component, let the Streaks strike that component more often than the other parts of the Mech.

As far as Lights go, I don't see too many Streak Boats on the Clan side of things any more. Back when it was new and novel, there were a bunch of them, but long reload times and ineffectiveness against larger Mechs has relegated that play style to the back burner.

[VinJade]

Nightmare have you forgotten the StormCrow SSRM boats?

[Idealsuspect]

Grimolfr, on 12 February 2015 - 07:54 AM, said:

I see no big issue with streaks at the moment. But as for dealing with lights, if you can hit them with decent accuracy, use pulse boats over ssrm boats.

LOL pulse boat...

Of course a streak boat isnt an any danger agaisnt any mech which aren't a light .. in fact its more a waste of tonnage than something else.

Against light mech, streak boat drive by elite pilot ( not founder stuff of course ) or a total noobish streak user its same ... light is doom.
No skill required maybe heat management if you are dealing with your 3rd target ^^.

But well i am a noob streak user sometimes too also its fine. I use them but never in boat i'am not that kind of total noob.

Edited by Idealsuspect, 12 February 2015 - 06:48 PM.

[Idealsuspect]

Nightmare1, on 12 February 2015 - 12:48 PM, said:

Streaks = powerful anti-Light weapon, useless anti-anything-bigger-than-a-Light weapon.

Frankly, I think they're just fine as they are, but would like to see TAG and NARC homing added into the mix. In other words, let the Streaks home to wherever I am Tagging. That would improve their usefulness against larger Mechs like Heavies and Assaults. The same can be said of NARCs. If I NARC a component, let the Streaks strike that component more often than the other parts of the Mech.

As far as Lights go, I don't see too many Streak Boats on the Clan side of things any more. Back when it was new and novel, there were a bunch of them, but long reload times and ineffectiveness against larger Mechs has relegated that play style to the back burner.

Totally exact srms boats ( stormcrow include ) are useless against 75% of mechs but pilots who drive that just wanna get 1 or 3 kills each game, skills or not... maybe they are bored to die with only assists.


PGI with Clan streaks 4-6 give them this opportunity they use it.

[Ljusdahl]

MovinTarget, on 12 February 2015 - 06:39 AM, said:

Not a bad idea, love the visual examples!

I guess the major contention is that some would say while they are too OP against lights, they are about the *ONLY* thing that can hit high speed lights with a degree of accuracy...

Thanks!
They should still be quite accurate, as long as you apply a bit of aim and foresight. It would also fix the ridiculous scenarios where a 'mech can aquire lock, have the target move way out of view, and then fire the streaks for a 100% hit. I think they can even turn 180° and fly straight through the firing 'mech.

Lily from animove, on 12 February 2015 - 06:43 AM, said:

they aren'T that powerfull, try to streak down a light in the testinground, they are truly bad wepaons. light pilots mostly haven't figured out how to correctly "eat" streaks to avoid eating them in the same seciong. because if a light pilot twists away he will eat all streaks in the arm/sidetorsi, which is devasting.

I have to say that's a faulty comparsion. The strength of streaks is that they're homing. The 'mechs in the training grounds are stationary. Any weapon you use against those will be 100% accurate.

Baron Cunedda Kell, on 12 February 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

I agree, they should be changed, but just the other direction.... Example: Last night, I was in a Streak Crow and a spider jumped me....with his ECM on... yes I had Clan active Probe....and it took me forever to take him down....his movement, ability to get away from the range of the missiles and other factors showed me...that they clan streaks are not up to par against lights... and yeah, he put a hurt on me..with his weapons... IMO Inner Sphere Lights.... can and do on a regular basis, EAT for lunch, Clan Lights and most of the bigger mechs... tbh...I fear lights than I do anything other mech in this game....

I don't know exactly how the mechanics of locking/ECM/BAP works, but that sounds more like an issuse for ECM balancing, not Streaks. Maybe reduce lock speed the closer the target is. Maybe just some values need tweaking. I really don't know.

Nightmare1, on 12 February 2015 - 12:48 PM, said:

Frankly, I think they're just fine as they are, but would like to see TAG and NARC homing added into the mix. In other words, let the Streaks home to wherever I am Tagging. That would improve their usefulness against larger Mechs like Heavies and Assaults. The same can be said of NARCs. If I NARC a component, let the Streaks strike that component more often than the other parts of the Mech.

That's funny, I actually had the exact same thought while pondering the Streaks. I'd definitely support this idea.

Then I thought it might be interesting if Streaks automatically somewhat favor damaged areas. For instance, a component at 50% health may be 50% more likely to be targeted than one at 100% health. Maybe that could be its Artemis bonus?

I thought of another reason why my suggestion would improve streaks versus heavier 'mechs: If an enemy fatty is torso twisting to protect a cored component, you could slightly curve your shots to at least bypass the shielding arm. It's little nifty uses like these that I think would make the Streak more interesting.

[K19]

What did need and simple. A module that causes the streaks get it right in place with less damage but because of the balance that the PGI much like talking was changed because who remembers the streaks cats. They can also use the clan as the sight control or IS version command console. Sure it was necessary that these ideas were seen by the PGI. Google translator.

Name: http://www.sarna.net...Tracking_System This and the best information to take ideas

[MadLibrarian]

Nightmare1, on 12 February 2015 - 12:48 PM, said:

Streaks = powerful anti-Light weapon, useless anti-anything-bigger-than-a-Light weapon.

Frankly, I think they're just fine as they are, but would like to see TAG and NARC homing added into the mix. In other words, let the Streaks home to wherever I am Tagging. That would improve their usefulness against larger Mechs like Heavies and Assaults. The same can be said of NARCs. If I NARC a component, let the Streaks strike that component more often than the other parts of the Mech.

As far as Lights go, I don't see too many Streak Boats on the Clan side of things any more. Back when it was new and novel, there were a bunch of them, but long reload times and ineffectiveness against larger Mechs has relegated that play style to the back burner.

I would definitely like to see tag and narc have more of an effect. If tagging or narcing someone's left torso drew a couple more missiles to that component, lrms or streaks, it could add another layer of strategy. Low priority though.

[FerrolupisXIII]

if you're having trouble killing a light mech with a Streak Mech, you are doing it wrong. plain and simple. either they have to stay at range and should be easy picking for bigger mechs, or they are totally useless as they cant come into weapons range to fight.

right now a StreakCrow is pretty much an instant no go for close range light mechs, as they will at the least take heavy damage. yes some of us have learned how to spread it out (oddly enough you have to let the streaks hit you flat in the face, trying not to make them chase you as that draws them all to the arm/side torso as they try to get to their actual target)

as someone pointed out if you can aim Pulse Boats are pretty good, like the THunderbolt. or, regular SRM can also be very effective.

[K19]

Name modulo "strike Streak" points low damege is nice

[BigBadVlad]

Streaks are a pretty good punch especially when boating like the streak crow does. It might be a simple, small tweak to make AMS equally effective against SRM and SSRM as it is against LRM's. Then you'll see more light mechs devoting a couple of precious tons to AMS maybe...
Of course then IS SSRM 2 would likely be completely ineffective. Maybe something like AMS is more effective against large groups of missiles but the fewer the missiles it exponentially(?) has a harder time taking them down?

[EXO-Scorpion]

NO!!!

Besides, inner sphere gets streak 4 & 6's in 3055-3058.
So until then... clans have that huge advantage!

I dont mind it.

[Twilight Fenrir]

It's an interesting idea... I wouldn't be against variable trajectories....

But, I don't see streaks as a problem, really. When the clan mechs came out, the very first thing I did was slap a Storm Crow with as many SSRM6 as I could... After 4 matches, I have never used CSSRMs again. The reload time is just murderous...

And, at least, according to lore, SSRMs should be incapable of missing. They will only fire when a hit is 100% assured.... Iirc...

If anything, LRMs are the bane of my light piloting... Ever since they started sinking most of their damage into legs, for some reason.

Back in their heyday, SSRMs invariably targeted center of mass. I killed MANY an assault mech, in very short order, with my Founder's Jenner and it's two streak 2s. My Jenners, and my Centurians are the only mechs I still use streaks on... My Oxide has 4 of them, just for hunting other light mechs... It still takes forever to kill with them. But, very few light mechs will stand and duke it out with me If they do, they're dead. So it's an effective screen for allied assault defense.

Light mechs are definitely the deadliest mechs in the game. My Hugin will kill just about anything, one on one. And I routinely kill all 3 enemy assault mechs with it before running out of ammo and being promptly dispatched XD The Jenner D, and F are almost as deadly.

Edited by Twilight Fenrir, 05 March 2015 - 12:29 PM.

[K19]

But another name for this module "Critical Strike" the idea and is not lit to everyone but it can be use for all missile get it right in one spot as the most denificada area. That and the idea to use 350% and more tactical than hit all. Google translator

[Lord0fHats]

I would agree but lights right now need a hard counter, and the only option is Steaks. Maybe once the netcod and hitreg issues with lights have been resolved this can and should be reexamined, because while streaks are good for knocking out lights, they aren't good for much else.