26 replies to this topic

[Geck0]

Hello Gentlemen,

You know me and if not you know my unit. We have fought many times. Both before and after CW started. Respect was had, at least from our end. We fought, and often won but we still treated you with respect and brought our attention and effort to the fights. Win or lose, GG's were had and given. We regarded you as peers in this community playing the game we all love.

However in the last 24 hours your unit has straight up avoided playing the game literally running away from our mechs on Hellbore, and deliberately made no effort to win a match on Boreal. I know this may not be your entire roster. Maybe even just a small group that decided to do this. So if you are against it, or weren't there for this then this isn't aimed at you.

Now don't get me wrong, I can't fault you for playing the meta to try and hold on to your planet. That's not what this is about. You had at least 20 more bodies than we did on Benfled. We were going nowhere no matter how fast the match ended.

"No point in trying to beat a better team. Better just hold them here" More or less what was said by one of your members. That's really the issue here.

In a situation where you had no worries about keeping the planet because of queue meta you deliberately played to lose. I get the feeling of running up against a team you historically can't beat. But we have always enjoyed humble pie many times. We find it the best form self reflection. That's when we learn. I can honestly say we were not always this consistent. While we have some things to improve on, we have come a long way from where we used to be and that came from strength of character.

Because after KDR, match score, damage score, planets taken and zones won are all digital dust. Its fake. In the end it doesn't matter so long as we had fun, showed respect and keep our dignity. With this behavior you may gain fake trophies, but you lost real values.

[Roadbeer]

1. Holding Action is a legitimate tactic, ancient by current standards as it's mention in Sun Tsu's Art of War. And backed up by Russ in the last Town Hall as a valid tactic.
2. There is no KDR or player stats in Community Warfare. It's straight up combat sans Epeen.
3. Marik invented it in this game, using it to great effect against the 228 when they were working for Steiner.

All your tears are belong to us.

Edited by Roadbeer, 10 February 2015 - 09:59 PM.

[Karl Marlow]

Ah, another clanner demanding people abide by the rules of zelbregen. If only the inner sphere would line up in front of their suprior weapons. Alas the clannners have to actually move around and find their targets. How horrid!

[jeirhart]

Two people from FWL (not SRoT or even Steiner) reply and both comically miss the point.



GG gentlemen.

Edited by jeirhart, 10 February 2015 - 10:09 PM.

[Murzao]

Greetings Falcons

Don't mind the Marik troll spam, they bombard every board even the ones that have nothing to do with them.....they think they own the place lol.

Firstly I wasn't around to know who was drop leading or who was participating but if our group was more a training op they shouldn't have been on the JF border as yea your border is the hardmode of the game gotta bring the vets! They should have been on the kiddie zone Marik or Kurita border sounds like.

Definitely was a small fraction though we've had 3-5 companies on good nights and could get another 2 if we conscripted everyone else in our TS that was rolling up normal mode mech leveling. Not even counting the normal SRoT comp team or 2 we got (SJ1 or SR10)....our hope is to field 8-10 premades simultaneously during invasion time eventually as our numbers are still growing being one of only a few active Steiner groups.

I have just drafted up a paper a day ago literally on our site on how to win CW as relying on other Steiner units for backup is hit and miss......that's probably where that came from. Some of our drop commanders are still learning the CW map balance, if I knew the planet pop was far unbalanced there shouldn't be a reason not to fight it out. Hell having a good match is more important than a line on a map. That's always why I've liked fighting JF.

But yea there's always kinks in trying to train a great many in a short time into a solid fighting force to hopefully have more than 2 comp teams internally.

[Kin3ticX]

Roadbeer, on 10 February 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

1. Holding Action is a legitimate tactic, ancient by current standards as it's mention in Sun Tsu's Art of War. And backed up by Russ in the last Town Hall as a valid tactic.
2. There is no KDR or player stats in Community Warfare. It's straight up combat sans Epeen.
3. Marik invented it in this game, using it to great effect against the 228 when they were working for Steiner.

All your tears are belong to us.

I seem to recall it being a "split decision" and that he didn't want to be bothered with stopping everything to fix it.

This is more about a design flaw than it is legitimate tactics. On the one hand you can tie up a team for 30 min and lose anyways. On the other hand it really really ****s up the game experience and the inferior team doesn't improve any out of it. That and.... its "attack/defend" mode and the defending team is stuck behind locked gates with fragile objectives to defend. Sounds 100% legit to me.

At least the new mode give less opportunities for teams to exploit this issue. (as Russ also said would happen)

Edited by Kin3ticX, 11 February 2015 - 01:10 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

Geck0, on 10 February 2015 - 09:31 PM, said:

Hello Gentlemen,

You know me and if not you know my unit. We have fought many times. Both before and after CW started. Respect was had, at least from our end. We fought, and often won but we still treated you with respect and brought our attention and effort to the fights. Win or lose, GG's were had and given. We regarded you as peers in this community playing the game we all love.

However in the last 24 hours your unit has straight up avoided playing the game literally running away from our mechs on Hellbore, and deliberately made no effort to win a match on Boreal. I know this may not be your entire roster. Maybe even just a small group that decided to do this. So if you are against it, or weren't there for this then this isn't aimed at you.

Now don't get me wrong, I can't fault you for playing the meta to try and hold on to your planet. That's not what this is about. You had at least 20 more bodies than we did on Benfled. We were going nowhere no matter how fast the match ended.

"No point in trying to beat a better team. Better just hold them here" More or less what was said by one of your members. That's really the issue here.

In a situation where you had no worries about keeping the planet because of queue meta you deliberately played to lose. I get the feeling of running up against a team you historically can't beat. But we have always enjoyed humble pie many times. We find it the best form self reflection. That's when we learn. I can honestly say we were not always this consistent. While we have some things to improve on, we have come a long way from where we used to be and that came from strength of character.

Because after KDR, match score, damage score, planets taken and zones won are all digital dust. Its fake. In the end it doesn't matter so long as we had fun, showed respect and keep our dignity. With this behavior you may gain fake trophies, but you lost real values.

At this point, teams will do it for merely for lulz. The word has spread about this tactic and its EZPZ to pull off. Knowing how pissed off the defenders are also makes it amusing enough since the attackers are going to lose anyways.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 11 February 2015 - 01:08 AM.

[Geck0]

Murzao, on 11 February 2015 - 12:26 AM, said:

Greetings Falcons

Don't mind the Marik troll spam, they bombard every board even the ones that have nothing to do with them.....they think they own the place lol.

Firstly I wasn't around to know who was drop leading or who was participating but if our group was more a training op they shouldn't have been on the JF border as yea your border is the hardmode of the game gotta bring the vets! They should have been on the kiddie zone Marik or Kurita border sounds like.

Definitely was a small fraction though we've had 3-5 companies on good nights and could get another 2 if we conscripted everyone else in our TS that was rolling up normal mode mech leveling. Not even counting the normal SRoT comp team or 2 we got (SJ1 or SR10)....our hope is to field 8-10 premades simultaneously during invasion time eventually as our numbers are still growing being one of only a few active Steiner groups.

I have just drafted up a paper a day ago literally on our site on how to win CW as relying on other Steiner units for backup is hit and miss......that's probably where that came from. Some of our drop commanders are still learning the CW map balance, if I knew the planet pop was far unbalanced there shouldn't be a reason not to fight it out. Hell having a good match is more important than a line on a map. That's always why I've liked fighting JF.

But yea there's always kinks in trying to train a great many in a short time into a solid fighting force to hopefully have more than 2 comp teams internally.

I thank you for your kind words and I hope you achieve your goals for unit growth.

[StUffz]

One note. CW is not about massive fights only but to conquer or hold the planet. That's the main goal of CW.

Edited by StUffz, 11 February 2015 - 02:50 AM.

[Zeece]

We have 400 members... could you give us some Pilot names so we could investigate are bit further?

[Karl Marlow]

Murzao, on 11 February 2015 - 12:26 AM, said:

.....they think they own the place lol.

[HARDKOR]

Roadbeer, on 10 February 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

1. Holding Action is a legitimate tactic, ancient by current standards as it's mention in Sun Tsu's Art of War. And backed up by Russ in the last Town Hall as a valid tactic. 2. There is no KDR or player stats in Community Warfare. It's straight up combat sans Epeen. 3. Marik invented it in this game, using it to great effect against the 228 when they were working for Steiner. All your tears are belong to us.

Every time I read something reasonable and diplomatic that you have posted, especially stuff about respecting the way the RP people want to have fun, I remember that you revel in being the master of all tactics that suck the fun out of the actual game. Light rush, delaying tactics, what else ya got? Maybe you invented chain firing troll builds, too?

[Roadbeer]

HARDKOR, on 11 February 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

Every time I read something reasonable and diplomatic that you have posted, especially stuff about respecting the way the RP people want to have fun, I remember that you revel in being the master of all tactics that suck the fun out of the actual game. Light rush, delaying tactics, what else ya got? Maybe you invented chain firing troll builds, too?

That's right we're all supposed to be playing rockem-sockem robots.

Please lords and masters MS, tell us how were supposed to play the game.
1. No light rush. Check
2. No Holding action against superior forces to keep planet. Check

Tell us more so we may please you and all of MS

GitTactical

Edited by Roadbeer, 11 February 2015 - 08:42 AM.

[StUffz]

Wasn't HARDKOR the one who was whining when he was Steiner most house units were out for bank holidays?

Anyhow, if someone wants to fight for the fight only, you can switch game mode public queue or private lobby.
Playing down the time counter is legitimate. If you are just too stupid to check where the mech has shut down, my. Bring on the scouts or stop blaming others for being smart.

Edited by StUffz, 11 February 2015 - 09:58 AM.

[Dawnstealer]

All I know is that when I went to bed last night, we had managed to swipe three worlds from you guys. I wake up this morning, and they're all back in your hands. Not sure if that was due to SROT or not, or just ghost drops against our low population numbers, or whatever, but...that was disheartening. Still, running away? That's not cool - fight, learn what works and what doesn't, use that in the next drop.

Of course, there is something to be said to the tactic of holding less numbers of Clan players in place so that your House can get easy Ghost Drop wins.

[AlmightyAeng]

Murzao, on 11 February 2015 - 12:26 AM, said:

Greetings Falcons

Don't mind the Marik troll spam, they bombard every board even the ones that have nothing to do with them.....they think they own the place lol.

I wish they did...the 'place' would be more fun

[Roadbeer]

Ghost Badger, on 11 February 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

I wish they did...the 'place' would be more fun

10/10. Would read again.

[InRev]

HARDKOR, on 11 February 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

Every time I read something reasonable and diplomatic that you have posted, especially stuff about respecting the way the RP people want to have fun, I remember that you revel in being the master of all tactics that suck the fun out of the actual game. Light rush, delaying tactics, what else ya got? Maybe you invented chain firing troll builds, too?

This might come as a shock, but maybe it's fun for us? Maybe part of our fun is the metagame aspect, knowing that our compatriots will be pushing back their foes on another front while we hold the line. Maybe we don't find fighting the standard competitive builds to be fun. Triple PPC? Yawn. Laser vomit? Snore.

The thing about the Marik community is that we're an incredibly diverse group that is largely tied together by our TS server, our website and our good relationships between units and with our PUGs (like me!). We're the antithesis of hegemonic. In a straight-up, min/max-build fight we probably are not "skilled" enough or "trained" enough to fight conventionally against the "serious competitive" units. To try to do so would probably be suicide. After all, a typical Marik group usually has 3 to 4 different units involved, units that likely don't coordinate builds or tactics together. Sure we have some outstanding individuals but we're not necessarily a well-drilled machine like certain merc units, for instance.

However we're united, we're organized, we're clever and we play to our strengths. If we can't win by playing your version of the game, by your rules, then we will play our own. If that means being annoying guerrilleros, then so be it. The light rush works because you can throw a bunch of pugs together, put them in jj lights, give each lance a target and let them loose with very little training required. Is it annoying? Yep. Is it cheap? Yep. Does it play to our strengths? Yep.

But bottom line, I have a secret for you: we're having fun doing it.

/THREAD JACKED

[Dawnstealer]

Ghost Badger, on 11 February 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

I wish they did...the 'place' would be more fun

agreed, I have more than a few Marik people I PUG drop with and they're all good players who are also fun to drop with. Still, we need to push that border back to where it was, Steiners...

[Dawnstealer]

InRev, on 11 February 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

This might come as a shock, but maybe it's fun for us? Maybe part of our fun is the metagame aspect, knowing that our compatriots will be pushing back their foes on another front while we hold the line. Maybe we don't find fighting the standard competitive builds to be fun. Triple PPC? Yawn. Laser vomit? Snore.

The thing about the Marik community is that we're an incredibly diverse group that is largely tied together by our TS server, our website and our good relationships between units and with our PUGs (like me!). We're the antithesis of hegemonic. In a straight-up, min/max-build fight we probably are not "skilled" enough or "trained" enough to fight conventionally against the "serious competitive" units. To try to do so would probably be suicide. After all, a typical Marik group usually has 3 to 4 different units involved, units that likely don't coordinate builds or tactics together. Sure we have some outstanding individuals but we're not necessarily a well-drilled machine like certain merc units, for instance.

However we're united, we're organized, we're clever and we play to our strengths. If we can't win by playing your version of the game, by your rules, then we will play our own. If that means being annoying guerrilleros, then so be it. The light rush works because you can throw a bunch of pugs together, put them in jj lights, give each lance a target and let them loose with very little training required. Is it annoying? Yep. Is it cheap? Yep. Does it play to our strengths? Yep.

But bottom line, I have a secret for you: we're having fun doing it.

/THREAD JACKED

Indeed - and I've played against your gang before. I think your first wave was ALL armed with ERLLs. Was remarkably effective and as defenders, we were down 12 mechs (granted - was PUGs vs prebuilt, but still) before you lost one. Made me examine some of my own builds.

Now I run an ERLL-armed CDA 3M and it's one of my more effective CW mechs. Evolve or die.