63 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

Rahul Roy, on 20 February 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

Well don't forget when he made the supreme leaders of Wolf's Dragoons, Kell Hounds and the coordinator's cousin end up on a commando adventure together by coincidence (they were all masters in hand to hand fighting of course).

Or for that matter when any of his pet characters beat a Clan Elemental at the things the Elementals were extensively trained from birth and genetically engineered for generations for.

Alexander Steel, on 20 February 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

Keep in mind elementals were designed not to beat people in fist fights, but to pilot anti-mech suits.

That said, there were Clan Mech pilots that were beaten by IS pilots, despite being extensively trained from birth and genetically engineered for generations for piloting mechs.

There were also clan aerospace pilots that were beaten by IS aerospace pilots, despite being extensively trained from birth and genetically engineered for generations for piloting aerospace fighters.

The point you should take away from those stories is that the Adjective Animals' breeding system wasn't as perfect as they thought it was. It generated a high overall level of competence and ability, but exceptional individuals, particularly from the Inner Sphere, would invariably break the mold - and Clan society had no place for them.

But hey! I'm sure they'd have all peacefully perfected the eugenics system once they had enough breathing room for the People of Kerensky conquered the Inner Sphere and restored the glorious Star League!

[Tundra Wolf]

dervishx5, on 20 February 2015 - 03:05 AM, said:

[dervishx5]

Tundra Wolf, on 20 February 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

[RedDevil]

Void Angel, on 20 February 2015 - 10:36 AM, said:

The point you should take away from those stories is that the Adjective Animals' breeding system wasn't as perfect as they thought it was. It generated a high overall level of competence and ability, but exceptional individuals, particularly from the Inner Sphere, would invariably break the mold - and Clan society had no place for them.

The breeding system and the Clan society are not the same thing. Also, there was very little genetic engineering involved except to removed defects that would cause diseases and disabilities. There would still be as much natural variation as you would see among siblings of any large family, as they would stay as hands off as possible when it came to the natural formation of gametes from the genetic material.

Basically, the breeding system just guaranteed 100% healthy babies that came from athletic and intelligent parents, without and drawbacks that could come from inbreeding. After that, nature (and nurture) still takes its course.

Edited by reddevil, 20 February 2015 - 01:48 PM.

[Void Angel]

The eugenics system is an essential element of Clan society, and the driving force behind their huge problem with social inequality. Children were separated from their parents and indoctrinated from an early age both to believe in the Clan ideal state, and the eugenics-caste system under which the Warrior Caste was ascendent, and everyone else was there to support them. And then there's "freebirths," conceived in un-Clanlike fashion and obviously inferior to those bred in the eugenics system - you could tell because, after receiving inferior training that was designed to produce a higher fatality rate amongst their sybkos, mediated by Trueborn who were sure they were inferior anyway, they always turned out to be less qualified than real Clanners, Bred in an Iron Womb to Reform the Star League!^tm

Genetic engineering doesn't always mean direct modification. When you're talking about using a deliberate breeding system to alter sub-genomes to the point where you're reliably producing borderline giants, stylized MechWarrior supermen, and twitchy little guys with exceptional reflexes and spatial skills, plus the height of Michael J. Fox, saying "but it's not genetic engineering," rings a bit hollow. Show a border collie to a wolf, and tell it the border collie wasn't engineered.

Edited by Void Angel, 20 February 2015 - 02:29 PM.

[RedDevil]

Clan society uses that breeding system, but any society could use iron wombs with cleaned up DNA. All the stuff that happens after is what clan society is. They're not the same thing. That's all I'm saying

[Void Angel]

And I'm trying to point out that while the technology doesn't necessitate the Clans, it's essential to what they are, and what is wrong with them.

[RedDevil]

Okay, lets just agree to disagree then

[Alexander Steel]

Quote

The eugenics system is an essential element of Clan society, and the driving force behind their huge problem with social inequality. Children were separated from their parents and indoctrinated from an early age both to believe in the Clan ideal state, and the eugenics-caste system under which the Warrior Caste was ascendent, and everyone else was there to support them.

Children aren't separated from their parents, they never have parents in the first place. From the moment they are "born" from the iron wombs ((in large lots)) they begin their training and that includes no parents or the like, their family are their brothers and sisters and even then they are rivals.

The Jade Falcon Books gave a really good look into this process and how twisted it was.

The only kids that have parents are "free births".

Quote

they always turned out to be less qualified than real Clanners

Not always. They were always TREATED as being less qualified and as a whole they would be as well, but their were some exceptional ones just like the IS had some exceptional people who were better than Clan trueborns.

Edited by Alexander Steel, 21 February 2015 - 03:14 AM.

[Lily from animove]

dervishx5, on 20 February 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

this made me laugh hard, but I still do not even know why.

[General Solo]

Its a bit like breeding animals, meddle to much and u get a purebreds with issues. Born Free as Free as the wind blows. As free as the UAC blows ( **** up). Depends on short term goal vs long term goal. Before you ask I'm a free birth.

[Alexander Steel]

Or you get the British Royalty with their huge funky teeth.

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

The next generation of Clan Wolf warriors...

Edited by Keira RAVEN McKenna, 22 February 2015 - 12:51 AM.

[Alienized]

now that propably looks better than the current wolfs eh?

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

Alienized, on 22 February 2015 - 12:38 AM, said:

now that propably looks better than the current wolfs eh?

about even par I think

[Alienized]

Keira RAVEN McKenna, on 22 February 2015 - 12:45 AM, said:

about even par I think

ok so only a slight improvement i guess

[Tank]

Tundra Wolf, on 20 February 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

Time flies, but some things never change...

[KuroNyra]

dervishx5, on 20 February 2015 - 03:05 AM, said:

Tundra Wolf, on 20 February 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

dervishx5, on 20 February 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

[dervishx5]

KuroNyra, on 22 February 2015 - 03:07 AM, said:

[KuroNyra]

dervishx5, on 22 February 2015 - 03:09 AM, said: