60 replies to this topic

[Roadbeer]

Dawnstealer, on 20 February 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

After talking to a few people in my unit, that's exactly what happened. They talked to one guy in one unit and figured they had their bases covered.

Well, if you guys tried to get organized, that would be enough.

[Dawnstealer]

Roadbeer, on 20 February 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

Well, if you guys tried to get organized, that would be enough.

Right??

If I ran the zoo, Roadbeer, things would be different.

Really? This whole thing is in Beta, and like I told RjBass in PM, this isn't a big deal because this thing's in beta and PGI will more than likely reset the borders when they roll it out for real, but...

I do want lines and methods of communication to solidified before then. Davion and Steiner (at least at this point in the timeline) are really one big (kinda) happy faction. I'm trying to drive a point home that, if this is the way they want to run things, they really need to try harder for buy-in.

The last thing Davion needs is a bunch of angry Steiner PUGs slamming through their last friendly border to solidify that point.

On the flipside, as I said previously, I do have a number of Marik friends I PUG with, so wouldn't mind having you guys as allies.

Finally, this is a game: NO alliance is going to last in this game because people will get bored, PUGs with no lore knowledge will drop wherever they want. People will break deals just because it's funny, they want a different challenge.

The southern powers, in particular, are the most likely to go against lore. I mean, the fact that Marik (lore-wise) didn't do EXACTLY what you guys are doing right now is mind-numbing: of COURSE you're going to take advantage. Why wouldn't you?

Edited by Dawnstealer, 20 February 2015 - 05:11 PM.

[ccrider]

Speaking as someone who has no authority over Davion high command, I'd prefer that we spent our time rallying the various solo and grouped Davion players to take a more active role in CW. Even 1 game every time a Davion player logged in to play would give us huge numbers. Maybe then we could skip deal making with Marik, Kurita or Liao and focus on expanding. We should be helping Steiner hold their worlds, defending against clanners while they stop Marik. I will continue to fight for House Davion, but it would be nice to play for a Davion that lives up to the name.

Also, to any Kurita pilots posting here; you may fight for "dear coordinator", but you die for Hanse Davion. I hear he's looking around for an anniversary gift for Melissa. Maybe something up north.

[An Anime Princess]

ccrider, on 20 February 2015 - 06:16 PM, said:

Speaking as someone who has no authority over Davion high command, I'd prefer that we spent our time rallying the various solo and grouped Davion players to take a more active role in CW. Even 1 game every time a Davion player logged in to play would give us huge numbers. Maybe then we could skip deal making with Marik, Kurita or Liao and focus on expanding. We should be helping Steiner hold their worlds, defending against clanners while they stop Marik. I will continue to fight for House Davion, but it would be nice to play for a Davion that lives up to the name.

Also, to any Kurita pilots posting here; you may fight for "dear coordinator", but you die for Hanse Davion. I hear he's looking around for an anniversary gift for Melissa. Maybe something up north.

actually hanse davion rides with us and he wants for nothing but green tea and cbills

[Baron Wasteland]

I rarely post in the forums, but I do want to say one thing to our Steiner and Davion friends. House Marik in general has one goal, and that is to defend Terra from the clans at any cost. We can't do that if we are south of Terra. I don't even care about the DC, it's merely a nuisance and I have no problem with them reclaiming their planets from the "wormhole experiment". The downside is we are no longer in place to help directly defend Terra and more importantly, we have no way of pushing back on the clans from where we are.

That is our situation in a nutshell. If anyone thinks we are devious, trying to take planets from our neighbors to further some hidden agenda, that is simply not true. We have been pretty open as far as I can see.

[Dawnstealer]

ccrider, on 20 February 2015 - 06:16 PM, said:

Speaking as someone who has no authority over Davion high command, I'd prefer that we spent our time rallying the various solo and grouped Davion players to take a more active role in CW. Even 1 game every time a Davion player logged in to play would give us huge numbers. Maybe then we could skip deal making with Marik, Kurita or Liao and focus on expanding. We should be helping Steiner hold their worlds, defending against clanners while they stop Marik. I will continue to fight for House Davion, but it would be nice to play for a Davion that lives up to the name.

Also, to any Kurita pilots posting here; you may fight for "dear coordinator", but you die for Hanse Davion. I hear he's looking around for an anniversary gift for Melissa. Maybe something up north.

That first month or so of CW, I was wondering if there'd even be a Liao or Kurita left. Steiner's numbers have gradually drifted back, but a merc unit or two wouldn't hurt. Looks like you guys are in more dire straits. We don't have the numbers, but we have the inherent advantage that ANY Inner Sphere power can drop on our Clan borders. That's sometimes more hurt than help, given the skills of some of the PUGs, but it's still an advantage and one we can't repay to Davion.

[Chef Kerensky]

SteelWarrior, on 20 February 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

Yea Kurita has left Steiner alone for the majority of the time, same as FRR. Anyone bordering the clans. I know we took a few planets from Steiner but never a real push on them

It's almost as though there's something to be shared between houses that actually understand what a clan border looks like, and not shared by those who pretend they do. No offense to Liao, who don't really fall into either category.

[ccrider]

@Dawnstealer, speaking for NY unit, ( all 4 of us, so I'm under no impression that this carries a ton of weight) you will never catch us dropping against Lyran worlds. No matter what direction Davion takes, we will continue to drop in defense of the Federated Commonwealth, no matter which end of the Inner Sphere the attacks come from.

[Dawnstealer]

ccrider, on 20 February 2015 - 10:48 PM, said:

@Dawnstealer, speaking for NY unit, ( all 4 of us, so I'm under no impression that this carries a ton of weight) you will never catch us dropping against Lyran worlds. No matter what direction Davion takes, we will continue to drop in defense of the Federated Commonwealth, no matter which end of the Inner Sphere the attacks come from.

And I appreciate that. And again, I want to add that I don't think this was "all of Davion got together and said: 'I have a great idea!'" I think it was more likely one unit, or a group of five players, that were tired of getting stomped by Kurita and then "talked to Davion command," which isn't really a thing, talked to Steiner command, which isn't really a thing, and then made a command decision to cede away their only ally's worlds to one of their most threatening and capable enemies.

Because that's something that makes sense.

[Ductus Hase]

Baron Wasteland, on 20 February 2015 - 06:58 PM, said:

I rarely post in the forums, but I do want to say one thing to our Steiner and Davion friends. House Marik in general has one goal, and that is to defend Terra from the clans at any cost. We can't do that if we are south of Terra. I don't even care about the DC, it's merely a nuisance and I have no problem with them reclaiming their planets from the "wormhole experiment". The downside is we are no longer in place to help directly defend Terra and more importantly, we have no way of pushing back on the clans from where we are.

That is our situation in a nutshell. If anyone thinks we are devious, trying to take planets from our neighbors to further some hidden agenda, that is simply not true. We have been pretty open as far as I can see.

Dear Friend - as your faithfull ally I got a suggestion:

Instead of attacking us you could help us.
Terra is save as long as the northern Houses are able to stop them before they reach it. To stop putting knives into our backs would go a long way to support this endeavor.

You might even go further:

Those Mariks, who are not on permanent contract could join Steiner or the FRR, you could actually fight the clans BEFORE they reach holy Terra. If you ever get tired of dropping against Clans, you might keep up your current practice of Ghostdropping, take back some of our worlds at the Marik Border and bolster morale of those who keep up the fight since the early days of CW, even if this means sacrificing our southern border.
This would really be proof of fighting for Terra at any cost.

Those Mariks, who are on permanent contract, could help Steiner and FRR by defending with organized units on the clanfront.

Break the nutshell!

[Asaru]

@Dawnstealer as a member of Davion command (which I can assure you is a real thing and has been a real thing since CW started) this was something that was done with thought and consideration. As a matter of policy Davion command does not post decisions or discuss strategies on open forums for all MWO to read or comment on. We have tried repeatedly to setup some kind of quick contact list for when we need to reach out to Steiner but due to the fragmented nature of Steiner command it has not been an easy thing to do.

Unlike Steiner we do have a central place where we can be quickly contacted if the need arises. If your units leadership would like to discuss this matter we would love to hear from them. We can be reached at the House Davion TS3 server The address ID: ts50.bargainvoice.com:7345 or @ http://affs.enjin.com/home

Edited by Asaru, 21 February 2015 - 06:15 PM.

[Vlad Ward]

Aha. So, everyone in House Steiner can rest well knowing that Davion High Command put a great deal of thought and consideration into the matter before trampling over the sovereignty of their staunchest ally and giving their planets away to their largest (and only) enemy in the Inner Sphere.

It's a funny thing, these e-politics. People seem to think it doesn't really matter what you say so long as you say it politely and claim to have a good reason. It's not like anyone could possibly have a different perspective or set of priorities or values from yourself. Surely they'll see it your way if they just opened their ears and listened. If they don't, it must be them who's being closed minded.

Really, Davion. You're the best. Don't ever stop.

[MischiefSC]

Vlad Ward, on 21 February 2015 - 06:17 PM, said:

Aha. So, everyone in House Steiner can rest well knowing that Davion High Command put a great deal of thought and consideration into the matter before trampling over the sovereignty of their staunchest ally and giving their planets away to their largest (and only) enemy in the Inner Sphere.

It's a funny thing, these e-politics. People seem to think it doesn't really matter what you say so long as you say it politely and claim to have a good reason. It's not like anyone could possibly have a different perspective or set of priorities or values from yourself. Surely they'll see it your way if they just opened their ears and listened. If they don't, it must be them who's being closed minded.

Really, Davion. You're the best. Don't ever stop.

Always going to be disagreements. There are within every faction and between every faction. I'm sure you get disagreements on tactics within your own group when you drop. Disagreements on what build to take.

At some point though you need to go do something or pick a mech or make a decision, so you reach the best consensus you can and move forward. There is no way to make any decision in this game about anything without someone taking it as a deep personal insult intended to slight them.

So you do your best, communicate with as many people as you can, get as many people as you can on board and move forward.

To pretend that this wasn't a two-way conversation is very disingenuous Vlad and you know that. Same with the trading worlds with Marik. Both Marik and Davion took worlds from each other. Not everyone in Marik or Davion was involved in that decision but as many as was reasonable were and every reasonable effort was made to ensure there were no bad surprises.

This wasn't an arbitrary decision or one made without conversations on both sides. All that makes this one different is someone who was unfortunately not part of that conversation was upset by the consensus and sufficiently so to discuss it for 3 pages on the forums. That's okay, I've got no issue with someone voicing their opinions. I'd say them speaking to their own leadership or accepting one of the numerous invitations to speak to Davion leadership at their convenience would actually be more useful.

Then again you also know that we're not going to get into a list of names or a public debate on a private dialog here on the forums and are going to try and twist it into being an off the cuff thing Davion did without any Steiner input.

Stay classy, Kurita.

[The Droid]

MischiefSC, on 21 February 2015 - 06:53 PM, said:

Always going to be disagreements. There are within every faction and between every faction. I'm sure you get disagreements on tactics within your own group when you drop. Disagreements on what build to take.

At some point though you need to go do something or pick a mech or make a decision, so you reach the best consensus you can and move forward. There is no way to make any decision in this game about anything without someone taking it as a deep personal insult intended to slight them.

So you do your best, communicate with as many people as you can, get as many people as you can on board and move forward.

To pretend that this wasn't a two-way conversation is very disingenuous Vlad and you know that. Same with the trading worlds with Marik. Both Marik and Davion took worlds from each other. Not everyone in Marik or Davion was involved in that decision but as many as was reasonable were and every reasonable effort was made to ensure there were no bad surprises.

This wasn't an arbitrary decision or one made without conversations on both sides. All that makes this one different is someone who was unfortunately not part of that conversation was upset by the consensus and sufficiently so to discuss it for 3 pages on the forums. That's okay, I've got no issue with someone voicing their opinions. I'd say them speaking to their own leadership or accepting one of the numerous invitations to speak to Davion leadership at their convenience would actually be more useful.

Then again you also know that we're not going to get into a list of names or a public debate on a private dialog here on the forums and are going to try and twist it into being an off the cuff thing Davion did without any Steiner input.

Stay classy, Kurita.

[MischiefSC]

The Droid, on 21 February 2015 - 07:05 PM, said:

Ah.

Words.

*nodnod*.

[Vlad Ward]

MischiefSC, on 21 February 2015 - 06:53 PM, said:

Always going to be disagreements. There are within every faction and between every faction. I'm sure you get disagreements on tactics within your own group when you drop. Disagreements on what build to take.

Nah, not really.

MischiefSC, on 21 February 2015 - 06:53 PM, said:

At some point though you need to go do something or pick a mech or make a decision, so you reach the best consensus you can and move forward. There is no way to make any decision in this game about anything without someone taking it as a deep personal insult intended to slight them.

So you do your best, communicate with as many people as you can, get as many people as you can on board and move forward.

"A genuine leader is not a searcher for consensus but a molder of consensus."

MischiefSC, on 21 February 2015 - 06:53 PM, said:

To pretend that this wasn't a two-way conversation is very disingenuous Vlad and you know that.

No, I don't. Fedcom Psyops keeps everything under wraps, remember? All I see are Steiner units - big ones - being not too happy about something they don't appear to have been consulted on. Even the Davion side of the story admits, what, 3 people were told this was going to happen? That's hardly a genuine conversation.

MischiefSC, on 21 February 2015 - 06:53 PM, said:

Same with the trading worlds with Marik. Both Marik and Davion took worlds from each other. Not everyone in Marik or Davion was involved in that decision but as many as was reasonable were and every reasonable effort was made to ensure there were no bad surprises.

idk about Clan Purple Davion. Doesn't matter to me.

MischiefSC, on 21 February 2015 - 06:53 PM, said:

This wasn't an arbitrary decision or one made without conversations on both sides. All that makes this one different is someone who was unfortunately not part of that conversation was upset by the consensus and sufficiently so to discuss it for 3 pages on the forums. That's okay, I've got no issue with someone voicing their opinions. I'd say them speaking to their own leadership or accepting one of the numerous invitations to speak to Davion leadership at their convenience would actually be more useful.

Yeah, that's what's so funny. If you're not seeing the humor I really can't point it out any more clearly.

MischiefSC, on 21 February 2015 - 06:53 PM, said:

Then again you also know that we're not going to get into a list of names or a public debate on a private dialog here on the forums and are going to try and twist it into being an off the cuff thing Davion did without any Steiner input.

Stay classy, Kurita.

idk man, it's mostly me and the Steiner dude who see it that way and you know I'm not "Kurita."

[Dawnstealer]

Asaru, on 21 February 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

@Dawnstealer as a member of Davion command (which I can assure you is a real thing and has been a real thing since CW started) this was something that was done with thought and consideration. As a matter of policy Davion command does not post decisions or discuss strategies on open forums for all MWO to read or comment on. We have tried repeatedly to setup some kind of quick contact list for when we need to reach out to Steiner but due to the fragmented nature of Steiner command it has not been an easy thing to do.

Unlike Steiner we do have a central place where we can be quickly contacted if the need arises. If your units leadership would like to discuss this matter we would love to hear from them. We can be reached at the House Davion TS3 server The address ID: ts50.bargainvoice.com:7345 or @ http://affs.enjin.com/home

And my point is that giving away Davion's OWN planets to achieve this goal would not have raised any eyebrows at all. Instead, you grabbed a Steiner planet and just decided on your own that that would be totally awesome. If that was done with " thought and consideration," maybe you shouldn't be in charge anymore.

[MischiefSC]

Dawnstealer, on 21 February 2015 - 10:22 PM, said:

And my point is that giving away Davion's OWN planets to achieve this goal would not have raised any eyebrows at all. Instead, you grabbed a Steiner planet and just decided on your own that that would be totally awesome. If that was done with " thought and consideration," maybe you shouldn't be in charge anymore.

Please refer to prior posts from Steiner reps who were contacted in advance.

Also, again. In case it got missed. Feel free to take your concerns up with your leadership in Steiner or, again, on Davion TS. If you would like to be PoC for Steiner then I encourage you to come speak with someone. My concern is that, right now, you're taking the idea that you were not personally involved in the Steiner half of this discussion as to mean that there was no discussion between Steiner and Davion.

If your intent is just to vent, well, forums are a place for that if you like. Not productive but a place for it. If your interest is to be in any way involved then please take advantage of either your own leadership channel or coming directly to Davion TS, as has been repeatedly invited.

[Dawnstealer]

MischiefSC, on 22 February 2015 - 03:23 AM, said:

Please refer to prior posts from Steiner reps who were contacted in advance.

Also, again. In case it got missed. Feel free to take your concerns up with your leadership in Steiner or, again, on Davion TS. If you would like to be PoC for Steiner then I encourage you to come speak with someone. My concern is that, right now, you're taking the idea that you were not personally involved in the Steiner half of this discussion as to mean that there was no discussion between Steiner and Davion.

If your intent is just to vent, well, forums are a place for that if you like. Not productive but a place for it. If your interest is to be in any way involved then please take advantage of either your own leadership channel or coming directly to Davion TS, as has been repeatedly invited.

Oh, I did - first person I talked to was the CO of the 5th RCT and he hadn't heard anything about this at all. My intent isn't to vent, but to tell you, without any ambiguity: SWIPING YOUR ALLY'S PLANETS WITH THE INTENTION OF HANDING THEM TO YOUR ALLY'S BIGGEST THREAT IS NOT A VERY "ALLY" THING TO DO.

I hope that's clear.

Editing for further clarity. House Davion and Steiner are allies - the only canonical allies at this point in the timeline. The correct response to someone from Steiner coming over to your boards and saying "Hey! Why are you guys invading us?" is not "You just aren't important enough to talk to. We agreed with ourselves and a couple people that responded to us and it's all agreed to. It's a great idea; awesome plan. You should respect that. Now go away."

Something along the lines "Oops - thought it was common knowledge in Steiner-ville. And the plan's truly awful, but Kurita, Liao, and Marik has us swiping at any desperate, ill-thought-out, stupid chance we have to not have Kurita on New Avalon in a month..."

Edited by Dawnstealer, 23 February 2015 - 07:56 AM.

[Tasker]

Hm. Almost as if AFFS make bad decisions.