33 replies to this topic

[m]

Burktross, on 11 May 2015 - 04:37 PM, said:

A Teamspeak will always be more reliable than a voice convention in game that can be, via game mechanics, disabled.

Well in my experience I have never had an issue with VOIP not working that was built inside of a game, but I have (as well as other people I know) with external programs ironically.

If the mechanic was in place then one working more often than the other, to all team members, wouldn't make the team better with skill. They would have to still disable the communication of said opposing team for the match win to be directly related to VOIP failure. Like I said, it's a matter of skill. On top of that they would have to know that the separate groups you were referring to are not using an external service. That's a lot of insight that quite frankly is a bit too far fetched.

Burktross, on 11 May 2015 - 04:37 PM, said:

Also, see the common forums proverb, "Teamwork is OP" for the bearing on the course of the game. If one team has consistent (also better quality) comms, and the other has easily disabled comms, the former will be at an advantage.

The only way communication can be disabled is if the player put him/herself in harms way to the point of putting their head into the orange or red. It literally comes down to skill. When was the last time you put your 'mech into the red or orange within the head? It's not that common, but there should be something in place that suits such a situation for immersion, regardless of external services. If people choose to break their immersion then so be it. But to just ignore this type of immersion entirely from being integrated at all is not right in the least when basing it on external services.

Edited by m, 11 May 2015 - 05:06 PM.

[Burktross]

m, on 11 May 2015 - 05:05 PM, said:

Well in my experience I have never had an issue with VOIP not working that was built inside of a game, but I have (as well as other people I know) with external programs ironically.

If the mechanic was in place then one working more often than the other, to all team members, wouldn't make the team better with skill. They would have to still disable the communication of said opposing team for the match win to be directly related to VOIP failure. Like I said, it's a matter of skill. On top of that they would have to know that the separate groups you were referring to are not using an external service. That's a lot of insight that quite frankly is a bit too far fetched.



The only way communication can be disabled is if the player put him/herself in harms way to the point of putting their head into the orange or red. It literally comes down to skill. When was the last time you put your 'mech into the red or orange within the head? It's not that common, but there should be something in place that suits such a situation for immersion, regardless of external services. If people choose to break their immersion then so be it. But to just ignore this type of immersion entirely from being integrated at all is not right in the least when basing it on external services.

I get headshots every 10th kill. Depends on the mech.
Be that as it may, I'm not denying skill as an important factor, but the team with the un-disabable VOIP will be better coordinated. Skill is manifest in tactics, too, and the prevalence of these external services is too commonplace to ignore.

Edited by Burktross, 11 May 2015 - 05:19 PM.

[m]

Burktross, on 11 May 2015 - 05:19 PM, said:

I get headshots every 10th kill. Depends on the mech.
Be that as it may, I'm not denying skill as an important factor, but the team with the un-disabable VOIP will be better coordinated. Skill is manifest in tactics, too, and the prevalence of these external services is too commonplace to ignore.

Well I never said external programs should be ignored.

If a group or unit chooses to ruin their immersion with the inclusion of this one bit of a feature toward VOIP, then like I said, so be it. It's their choice.

Anyone who finds the game too easy should be for a VOIP inclusion for immersion of some sort. Sure there are people who need their hand held to a certain degree in this game, but in no way should we ignore the existing player base's needs for wanting to improve the game.

External programs for VOIP aside, improving the game's immersion by any means necessary, should be on top of the list of things that are needed for this game as this game was designed from an in-depth simulation RPG.

Edited by m, 24 May 2015 - 08:21 PM.

[Vellron2005]

m, on 20 February 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

Would anyone prefer failures within a 'mech if damage to the Head occurs into the Orange (25% Chance of a single failure) or Red (50% Chance of multiple failures)?

By 'failures' I am referring to a multiple random chance of loss of permanent control to modules, 3rd person view, night vision (turns off), heat vision (turns off), can't be seen on radar by enemy or team, disconnected from VOIP communication, and/or disconnected from Team Chat (not Global) communication.

I think it's a great idea to have vulnerabilities like this within the game when the Head is damaged severely. What does everyone else think of these consequences if damage occurs to the 'Head'?

Eager to hear what everyone else thinks.

Please discuss.

Thank you.

I think it happens WAAAAY to little to be worth the development time to implement it.. It would be immersive, but simply not worth the Dev-hours..

[m]

Vellron2005, on 23 November 2015 - 06:11 AM, said:

I think it happens WAAAAY to little to be worth the development time to implement it.. It would be immersive, but simply not worth the Dev-hours..

Well to me (and I believe the 20 others that voted 'Yes') think that immersion in the cockpit is everything.

If I don't feel immersed in a game then it's simply not worth the time to play. The little things are usually the most important, and in this case it is.

Don't forget, nearly every game that is made today strives for that perfect sense of immersion. It is worth ever second of their job to implement a complex sense of immersion of some sort. People even make MechPit's to exact that perfect sense of immersion. So to say it's not worth the time on the developer end is pretty pessimistic.

Edited by m, 24 November 2015 - 09:39 AM.

[m]

WarmasterRaptor, on 24 November 2015 - 10:00 AM, said:

On Comms no.

Because of the stated above : external programs, not affected by MWO, to circumvent that EXACT penalty.

PUG's won't be affected, regardless of external programs. PUG players use in-game VOIP. Once in all my matches someone tried to coherce people within the match to go to some ventrilo server and everyone turned that player down.

WarmasterRaptor, on 24 November 2015 - 10:00 AM, said:

There is no amount of "skill" (seriously why bring that into play ) that'll help to compensate for a lost FUNCTIONALITY versus a team that'll ignore said penalty because of another program. That's just logical.

In this context we are discussing communication. We are not generalizing for everything, like you are. Also if you lose a functionality like communication you are implying that the people on Teamspeak etc. will be hopeless. I highly doubt that the players that play this game are that dependent on their teammates that they need them in their ear for the entirety of the match. Besides, it's been mentioned that it's extremely rare of an occurance.

Edited by m, 24 November 2015 - 10:30 AM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

mechsnstuffyo, on 20 February 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

-PPC's should effect voip and target gathering for a short time (in the same way they disable ECM for a duration)

No, because NO!

voip should not be a less functional TS than it already is.

[m]

WarmasterRaptor, on 25 November 2015 - 10:31 AM, said:

Well, for one asking to NOT generalize, your doing it quite well saying PUGs never use VOIP.

Reference where I said "never" because I can't seem to find that statement. Also "never" hasn't been implied by myself at all in this thread.

WarmasterRaptor, on 25 November 2015 - 10:31 AM, said:

I've been in plenty of matches were communication was great and efficient, using only VOIP.

I err on the side of a good game that is immersive. That is my stance.

WarmasterRaptor, on 25 November 2015 - 10:31 AM, said:

I also been in matches were comms were completely absent but people were just symbiotic and understood the flow of the battle.

As have we all since closed beta, and I have seen the differences over time in how certain decisions are made against the community.

WarmasterRaptor, on 25 November 2015 - 10:31 AM, said:

I know you're discussing comms, that the point I'm against...
I absolutely don't get how you imagine I'm generalizing stuff and think I'm saying that teamspeak users will be hopeless.
You're so far off the track I just can't understand how you interpreted my words like that.

No need to hurl abusive context. If you weren't generalizing and meant your statement for the discussion of VOIP or 'comms' or Teamspeak I addressed that already.

WarmasterRaptor, on 25 November 2015 - 10:31 AM, said:

The only thing, and I'm repeating myself, is that teamspeak (external program) users won't care if they get a comm status effect in-game compared to the players NOT on teamspeak, only using the ingame VOIP.

Well I suppose I have to repeat myself as well;

m, on 22 May 2015 - 11:29 PM, said:

Well I never said external programs should be ignored.

If a group or unit chooses to ruin their immersion with the inclusion of this one bit of a feature toward VOIP, then like I said, so be it. It's their choice.

Anyone who finds the game too easy should be for a VOIP inclusion for immersion of some sort. Sure there are people who need their hand held to a certain degree in this game, but in no way should we ignore the existing player base's needs for wanting to improve the game.

External programs for VOIP aside, improving the game's immersion by any means necessary, should be on top of the list of things that are needed for this game as this game was designed from an in-depth simulation RPG.

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WarmasterRaptor, on 25 November 2015 - 10:31 AM, said:

Do you understand that point? Or I need to reword it ?

You point has been mentioned already by another user and answered further up the page which I addressed already.

Look, I support all the brainstorming here. I also enjoy the discussions, because we are at least discussing what we know this game lacks and how many users stand with agreement and disagreement.

But you have to keep in mind, it's not just myself that feels VOIP should be affected by, at the very least, weapons. I initially suggested that certain things should only be affected on the EXTREME RARE OCCURANCE when the head goes into Orange or Red. These are RANDOM occurances, as well as being extremely rare eventualities. I think maybe about half a dozen times I have been in that position in my entire time while playing this game since closed beta.

The game has to grow and become more immersive or else it just gets boring. We can't wait until it gets boring to suggest how it should be improved. That's the whole point of the Test Server as well.

[Rattazustra]

My opinion:

1. Make the head a bit easier to hit again. Make it the actual HEAD, not just half a single window.
2. Double the structure of the head.
3. Make half the head-damage bleed into torso, instead of being applied to the head itself.
4. Add a colourful variety of malfuctions, broken cockpit glass, steam and dust inside cockpit, accuracy problems, shutdowns, etc.

It would make headshots happen more often, but with more interesting consequences. Headshooting would something of tactical value to people other than the aimbotters.

[Ialdabaoth]

The head is SUPPOSED to have internal components, like so:

-Cockpit
-Sensors
-Sensors
-Life Support
-Life Support
-Available

Just let these components take critical hits, as normal.

-Sensors hit means your 'mech behaves as if inside an enemy ECM bubble.
-Life Support hit means your 'mech takes a further 1 point of head internal structure damage for each full second that your heat gauge is above 60%.
-Cockpit means your mech is destroyed.

While we're at it, we should also have the following from torso and leg hits:
-Engine - lose 0.5 heat dissipation per second
-Gyro - torso twist, turn speed, deceleration, and acceleration are all cut by half.
-Hip - max speed, turn speed, acceleration and deceleration are cut by 25%.
-Upper Leg - max speed, turn speed, acceleration and deceleration are each cut by 10%.

-Lower Leg - max speed, turn speed, acceleration and deceleration are each cut by 10%.

-Foot - max speed, turn speed, acceleration and deceleration are each cut by 5%.

[Durant Carlyle]

In this one particular case (in-game VOIP), immersion takes a back seat.

They/we are trying to increase the number of people using the in-game VOIP. Giving the enemy the ability to disable it (via damage or ECM or whatever) is counter-productive.

[VinJade]

oh and any head hit should have a chance to disable the war horns.
the more damage suffered the much higher chance to disable them.

MG & Flamers that hit the head doing very little damage should have a 10% of disabling the horn heavier damage from weapons going from white to yellow 45% chance to disable the horns, red 80-99% chance to disable the horns.

The reason I give them such high numbers is because they are outside of the cockpit(even if you cannot see them) to be able to hear them outside of the cockpit thus making them more vulnerable to damage.

Depending on the mech, some should have a higher chance of having their standard sensors(all mechs come with Thermal, night,& Seismic) /TC damage or just outright destroyed them.

[NoiseCrypt]

I don't really care for disabling mech systems based on head damage. I think that the argument of redundant systems is to heavy.

But it would be really cool if the cockpit graphics would represent the level of damage and destruction on pair with the external mech visuals.

[Insanity09]

While the idea of making internal damage more significant is attractive, particularly for head damage (sensors, life support, etc.), given the relative rarity of head damage, it seems like a waste of dev time.