168 replies to this topic

[Stealth Raptor]

Yesterday we offered you guys everything you could have wanted, us stopping our attacks on you and focusing on clans only. This has been a stated goal of you guys and the star league. Not only that, we quickly 100% capped a csj planet and were mostly done reversing yardley and could have then spared forces to blunt cgb before we were forced to withdraw from the clan border. not only that, we have shown we have the numbers to really slow them down to the point that people helping do defend would push the clans back hard. Granted i very much understand the sentiment and why it was turned down no, but what can we do to get this done? Many of us in kurita really want to focus clans, but we cant while you guys are attacking us, and will be made impossible once marik gets an attack border on us. What more do you want of us?

Edited by Stealth Raptor, 22 February 2015 - 08:18 AM.

[stevemac]

Stealth I am speaking as a Robinson Ranger not as a sitting member of the AFFS so my comments are not official from the AFFS as we tend not to post official exchanges on forums.

Back in January we laid off your borders so you could focus on the clans. Then as we had 2 or 3 full teams up helping defend all the HK house units started hitting Davion with out warning. Only after you ran the planets up I had Conreg come to my TS too tell me your hitting us not giving us the time to pull our forces back south. At least your reps were told of the decision of the AFFS before we hit your worlds a courtesy not afforded to Davion at the beginning of February.

As for one of the reason I personally voted no goes to the RP aspect as Im a Ranger and will not even think of a deal as Robinson is 1 planet away if the algorithm decides to go that way. The other aspect is the Crap posting on the forums and in game have made the relationship toxic for the Robinson Rangers. Maybe in time things can be repaired but you know for yourself RP members tend to have long memory's.

[Stealth Raptor]

unfortunately if it doesnt get fixed and soon clans will reach terra unabated.

also attacking each other will only make our hate for each other worse and make it less likely to happen, which is why the trial ceasefire would have been a powerful tool to fix some of the issues and hate we have for each other. it all seems for nought at this point.

again i ask, what can house kurita do to help fix this?

Edited by Stealth Raptor, 22 February 2015 - 09:10 AM.

[Stoned Prophet]

Stealth Raptor, on 22 February 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:

unfortunately if it doesnt get fixed and soon clans will reach terra unabated.

also attacking each other will only make our hate for each other worse and make it less likely to happen, which is why the trial ceasefire would have been a powerful tool to fix some of the issues and hate we have for each other. it all seems for nought at this point.

again i ask, what can house kurita do to help fix this?

Nothing! your differences are irreparable! Continue to fight one another while the Glory of Clan Ghost Bear watches on in amusement! We are mightily entertained, and have sent back to the Pentagon Cluster for MOAR POPCORN!

[stevemac]

Stealth I do appreciate your position.

But right now my unit is so disgusted with how things went. The RRB resolve is firm in this matter we will fight back and forth for weeks on the same area if we have too. *see the Wazan planet how many times that changed hands back and forth. Unfortunately at this time the position of the Robinson Rangers Brigade is we cant accept the border in the current state. And even if a planet swap was arranged the conduct of some of the HK members have made any deal hard if not impossible to reach.

*Actions of a few will damage the reputation of the rest

Edited by stevemac, 22 February 2015 - 09:28 AM.

[YCSLiesmith]

I agree with toilet bear.

[Stealth Raptor]

Well, like i said its unfortunate that terra is going to have to fall over these petty squabbles, i can only hope that things will change with the map reset.

thanks for your time and eagerly await our encounters on the battlefield o7

[stevemac]

o7

[MischiefSC]

Actually there was another diplomatic envoy a few weeks ago to discuss the same thing. Kurita laughed it off and pretty much said they just wanted to fight Davion.

Can you appreciate that this looks like Kurita had some big gains that they are starting to see can't last and they want to cement those while they can and then look for support against the Clans to shore up an otherwise poor long term position?

I wasn't involved in the vote, wasn't in the room for this one, don't speak for anyone but myself, just want to make that clear. However I find it unlikely that AFFS Com blew the Kurita diplomatic envoys and their position off as casually and dismissively as the previous Kurita envoys dismissed the prior entreaty we made.

Had a treaty come up before Kentares you could have locked down a lot of new worlds and rolled against the Clans with heavy support. Now? When we've taken back every lost world +1. You're looking at 3 or 4 active borders with growing populations. I suspect most of Davion is looking at your position, remembering our similar one and sharpening their knives.

[Stealth Raptor]

what it looks like is not always what it seems. both sides have been apart of slinging lies and misinformation back and forth. it is a nasty affair, but if we want any realistic chance to stop the clans, swe will have to get together someway, somehow. even if at this point davion takes a world from us every ceasefire, clans will be on the doorstep of terra long before either you or marik gets a border with them. if we want to say w/e its beta, then that is cool too. however for what it is worth our offer still sits on the table and will remain there until it is taken or until the clans hit terra. we are willing to work now regardless of whats happened in the past. we are willing to set aside our own issues we have had with you and percieved transgressions on your part. noone here is an angel that did nothing wrong- we have both screwed each over multiple times. The ball is in your court. Until then, good luck on the battlefield o7

[LoklanZFG]

stevemac, on 22 February 2015 - 09:05 AM, said:

Stealth I am speaking as a Robinson Ranger not as a sitting member of the AFFS so my comments are not official from the AFFS as we tend not to post official exchanges on forums.

Back in January we laid off your borders so you could focus on the clans. Then as we had 2 or 3 full teams up helping defend all the HK house units started hitting Davion with out warning. Only after you ran the planets up I had Conreg come to my TS too tell me your hitting us not giving us the time to pull our forces back south. At least your reps were told of the decision of the AFFS before we hit your worlds a courtesy not afforded to Davion at the beginning of February.

As for one of the reason I personally voted no goes to the RP aspect as Im a Ranger and will not even think of a deal as Robinson is 1 planet away if the algorithm decides to go that way. The other aspect is the Crap posting on the forums and in game have made the relationship toxic for the Robinson Rangers. Maybe in time things can be repaired but you know for yourself RP members tend to have long memory's.

Just wanted to address this. I'm certainly not a ranking member of anything that has to do with House Kurita, I'm just a grunt. But I'm in TS, dropping with other house loyalist pilots pretty damn consistently.

As far as most of us knew, there was never any kind of ceasefire agreement with Davion. There was definitely a period of time when the border between our houses was quiet, but this was before the DCMS high command was formed and if anyone tried to negotiate a peace deal with you guys, they neglected to tell the members of various HK units who were actually dropping and fighting the battles. We also had no idea you guys were defending our border, because all we can see looking at another faction is what planets had action on them. And at said time when we began our offensive against Davion, it looked to us like you were trading planets with Marik, and taking it to our friends in Liao.

Before all the recent flame wars here on the forums, I always felt like our (NS) matches against you guys were enjoyable and respectful. Things have turned pretty sour between us lately, but I think it's stemming from miscommunications more than anything. We don't feel like we ever broke any ceasefire agreement, and that perception would definitely explain why you guys feel the way you do.

Look forward to seeing you on the battlefield o7

Edited by LoklanZFG, 22 February 2015 - 02:06 PM.

[Crockdaddy]

I'd like to add,

The original January ceasefire was negotiated by one HK unit which unfortunately did not have the full backing at that time of HK as we did not have a council. The HK unit doing the negotiating was doing it in good faith, that much I can assure you. An internal argument was waged and NS (my unit) wanted blood from Davions from all the planets we lost during December until the unofficial January negotiation. I can see from your point how we broke the agreement you proposed, but then AFFS was a fully integrated entity and the HK Council was not.

The second agreement I wasn't personally aware of and had never been ratified by the HK High Council, if it had been then NS would have stopped operations on the Davion front immediately. NKVA PVP forum warriors that they are, are great partners in actual battle ... they too would have honored the agreement and taken their Forum Warriors north the the uh clan forum front.

[Javin]

I actually like fighting the clans, one of the reasons some of us dropped to defend Luthien. Most of the time Davion units are fighting the clans or Liao. We really do not have the units to fight Kurita, Liao, and Marik. Twice I have heard we had a ceasefire and twice Kurita units dropped on our planets. This last 'ceasefire' was not put out to any Davion unit, so we kept trying to push back on Kurita aggression.

If you really wanted peace you would stop attacking, but you never stop, so we keep fighting.

Edited by Javin, 22 February 2015 - 02:49 PM.

[MischiefSC]

One problem that had come up a lot is lack of unified leadership. You talk to anyone in Davion AFFS Com and you're plugged into Davion leadership. In short order you'll be dealing with the huge majority of Dav units and all their active players will know the new orders in minutes to a day or so. Then we discuss what we understand is an official agreement with someone in another house and then find out only 8 people ever heard of it or none of their big units talk to each other, etc.

Hence our initial happiness at HK Council being created.

Whatever the issues between Davion and Kurita at least we are both unified in telling each other to **** off and be assured that its the other factions collective middle finger being raised

[Kjudoon]

To be blunt, Kurita has a few bad actors in thier midst who are dominating conversation with your faction and becoming defacto spokespersons for you whether you like it or not. They've done a very good job of driving people out of your faction who will not put up with such foolishness.

Till those people are either brought under control, or disavowed and left isolated from all things Kurita (turning them into de facto pirates), good things cannot be had by Kurita. The spat caused by these bad actors on Kurita's side and Marik's interlopers via the -MS- trolls have not helped matters much and serve as a good example.

We can suspect false flag ops by multiple units on alt accounts all we want, but this is a problem PGI must address for it will require a rules change and possibly a CoC change regarding alt accounts in CW. The catch is real money has been spent on Clan mechs and to forbid people to use one or the other is a discussion long since over.

The problem is that till the next variation of CW comes into play, where PGI offers the ability to moderate factions and who can join one by the players themselves or some algorithm, (or does the bloody job themselves finally), by penalizing faction hoppers and bad actors somehow in the form of lessening or eliminating CW rewards, this will not come under control.

Now, mind you, Davion had/has some problems like this too, but generally speaking, their people are mostly in the fold or so isolated, the collective can effectively keep most piracy out of the game by attacking only the channels they desire leaving the inability to form 12mans for anything else.

Just my 2 cents.

Edited by Kjudoon, 22 February 2015 - 03:12 PM.

[An Anime Princess]

Kjudoon, on 22 February 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:

Till those people are either brought under control, or disavowed and left isolated from all things Kurita (turning them into de facto pirates), good things cannot be had by Kurita.

I don't agree that in-game systems should be developed to punish people who aren't breaking the code of conduct just because other people are getting upset. Define a 'bad actor'. Is it someone whose behaviour doesn't agree with you? There are a lot of people who aren't going to act in accordance with whatever value system you have in place regarding manners, and if you implement some god-awful voting system that allows a group of players to tighten the faucet on how many cbills another group of players can make, you can bet it will be abused into the ground and either be removed or people will just stop playing CW.

Settle it by shooting the other robots in CW, for god's sake.

[Vlad Ward]

Who have they legitimately driven out? For real?

And please don't say Seraphim or Black Widows. Those guys were only there because "Marik Told Them To Be." It's highly likely that Marik would have told both of those units to pull contract and leave as soon as the Wormhole Reclamation Project started regardless of their feelings for or interactions with House Kurita.

How many actual Merc units (not Roaming Faction units belonging to an enemy) have left HK because of NKVA? Because I haven't heard of any.

[Stoned Prophet]

An Anime Princess, on 22 February 2015 - 03:17 PM, said:

I don't agree that in-game systems should be developed to punish people who aren't breaking the code of conduct just because other people are getting upset. Define a 'bad actor'. Is it someone whose behaviour doesn't agree with you? There are a lot of people who aren't going to act in accordance with whatever value system you have in place regarding manners, and if you implement some god-awful voting system that allows a group of players to tighten the faucet on how many cbills another group of players can make, you can bet it will be abused into the ground and either be removed or people will just stop playing CW.

Settle it by shooting the other robots in CW, for god's sake.

Kurita always seems to excuse the bad behavior of their players. A lot like excusing people for being criminals because thats how they were raised. Not an excuse. If you cant act like a respectful human being, you deserve to be punished.

Vlad Ward, on 22 February 2015 - 03:21 PM, said:

Who have they legitimately driven out? For real?

And please don't say Seraphim or Black Widows. Those guys were only there because "Marik Told Them To Be." It's highly likely that Marik would have told both of those units to pull contract and leave as soon as the Wormhole Reclamation Project started regardless of their feelings for or interactions with House Kurita.

How many actual Merc units (not Roaming Faction units belonging to an enemy) have left HK because of NKVA? Because I haven't heard of any.

More speculation and heresay. Thats all you guys ever have. "Davions need ghost drops!" "marik alts attacking our capital!" (since when is it not okay to have a clan alt? How many of these whiners have a clan alt themselves?) and now "the people who left would have left anyway, for realz".

This Bear aint buying it

[Kjudoon]

Vlad Ward, on 22 February 2015 - 03:21 PM, said:

Who have they legitimately driven out? For real?

And please don't say Seraphim or Black Widows. Those guys were only there because "Marik Told Them To Be." It's highly likely that Marik would have told both of those units to pull contract and leave as soon as the Wormhole Reclamation Project started regardless of their feelings for or interactions with House Kurita.

How many actual Merc units (not Roaming Faction units belonging to an enemy) have left HK because of NKVA? Because I haven't heard of any.

We'd still be there if it wasn't for the behavior of those speaking on behalf of Kurita. The only gains you guys had occurred after the BWC, ACES and SRPH showed up and have now reversed since their departure.

I know much of Marik was pretty revolted with the treatment the help they sent received (MercStar treachery not withstanding because they're just going goon on everybody). I'm just trying to give you some perspective. It seems obvious that it's not wanted or respected. So that's that.

But you believe what you want. Well 'roleplayed'.

You reap what you sow.

Edited by Kjudoon, 22 February 2015 - 03:27 PM.

[Stealth Raptor]

Javin, on 22 February 2015 - 02:48 PM, said:

I actually like fighting the clans, one of the reasons some of us dropped to defend Luthien. Most of the time Davion units are fighting the clans or Liao. We really do not have the units to fight Kurita, Liao, and Marik. Twice I have heard we had a ceasefire and twice Kurita units dropped on our planets. This last 'ceasefire' was not put out to any Davion unit, so we kept trying to push back on Kurita aggression.

If you really wanted peace you would stop attacking, but you never stop, so we keep fighting.

to expect this is silly. Both sides have a "well you keep attacking so we will keep attacking" mentality. I shouldnt need to point out that this will lead to both sides attacking since the other is attacking so nothing will get done. I would hope one of our sides (looking at you HK!) Has the balls to back off the border and get something done

i will say i have a small hope if only for the fact that during the time the ceasefire was being considered by your leadership our EU timezone didnt touch your border and then the NA timezone despite APOC (a merc group that got the message late) dropping on our border, i think we only had one group occasionally defend while the rest attacked clans and left davion alone. Albeit this was only 2 ceasefires of data that quickly devolved into trolling and trash talking once it was rejected, but i really think that we can work this out.