486 replies to this topic

[Vandul]

To the OP. While a large population of current players are familiar with the canon to a certain degree, new players coming to us via steam is good. Do they know the lore? Probably not. Is that an issue? Nope. Some wont care, some will actually find an interest in our nifty little slice of the universe and actually start reading lore, canon, and history.

That says sustainability to me.

To the other posters, yeah, we got some work before we get there. VOIP now is actually kind of pleasant 8/10 matches. I dread it the moment the valve is turned on.

[Bosie]

I don't get the attitude about the lore. What little lore I know came from playing this game. I don't care about the lore/why clan and IS work differently. All I care about is a fun game where I drive a giant stompy robert with guns.

[Kjudoon]

I understand your concern and some of it, I do find quite legitimate, but there are some (too many) who are worried about the Steam release because of this all too frequent attitude:

Edited by Kjudoon, 26 February 2015 - 04:14 AM.

[Reaper3015]

Mudhutwarrior, on 26 February 2015 - 03:33 AM, said:

If the elitists stop feeling so special and instead try to teach we will have no problems with steam.

If they keep the were so much better than the underhive mentality we will have lots of problems with a truly divided base.

Its a game, your not special.

try teachig a brick wall to roll over. Thats what trying to teach 90% of new players is like. Eventually, these "elitists" as you call them,get tired of banging their head against a wall trying to help the un helpable, get salty, and adopt the sink or swim mentality.

[Lily from animove]

Mudhutwarrior, on 26 February 2015 - 03:33 AM, said:

If the elitists stop feeling so special and instead try to teach we will have no problems with steam.

If they keep the were so much better than the underhive mentality we will have lots of problems with a truly divided base.

Its a game, your not special.

you will definately get some haters and true underhivelers with the steam release and probably some cheaters as well.
Yet the initial reply will often just be l2p because at this point this is really what it will be. After giving them the mechnics this is in the end all they can do to improve.

Theorywarrior is not complex, butits something that needs the training to do it right.

and for individual issues, you would need to see how the one having the issue plays to properly help him, and without some kind of trainer and trainee mode where a veteran can just spectate his cadet he will just repeat the theory the cadet already heard serveral times, But he will have a hard time to exactly know what is going wrong unless someone tells him: you did this and this wrong, and should have done this and that.

it took me around estimated 200 matches until I was quite a proper pilot, so yes l2p is actually the true advice for newbies without being an elitistic view.

Edited by Lily from animove, 26 February 2015 - 04:32 AM.

[SovietArmada]

Hmmm, I agree PGI needs to somehow change the new player experience. I fear many will be turned away after a few days. Hell I actually uninstalled MWO after 2 days. And came back on a whim a week later too give it another shot. It was thanks to the community being helpful in answering questions I had about the game to start understanding the ins and outs.

But thats just it, there is so much to learn all at once, with no steady climb for new players, and new players are thrown into the matchmaking hell that they never get good chances to understand how to play the game. All the meanwhile, more experienced players that have little tolerance for newer ones put them down.

Actually, it needs to be a combined effort by both PGI ,and MWO veterans to guide newer players too better understand it. Otherwise we will be chasing away the new population.

Edited by SovietArmada, 26 February 2015 - 04:35 AM.

[Bleary]

The learning curve fears are kind of exaggerated, I think.

At base this game involves pressing WASD to move and clicking your mouse to fire. Anyone who has ever played an FPS on a PC can get around and shoot things in Mechwarrior. There's more to it, of course, but jumping in and getting to the point where you feel like you're playing the game does not take much.

It requires a different playstyle than most shooters. And the garage interface is a whole different kettle of absurdly byzantine fish. But new players can figure that out over time. For the first 20 matches it's just going to be run around and fire, and the technical barrier to doing that in MWO is not high.

Seriously. Picking up MWO was nowhere near as rough as, say, my first forays into Unreal Tournament PvP. You guys underestimate the kind of meatgrinder most multiplayer shooters run new players through.

[Raggedyman]

SuomiWarder, on 25 February 2015 - 11:58 PM, said:

Most of these new players will have no love of - nor knowledge - of BattleTech. Which means they will not understand or accept the quirks of B Tech lore that many of us do. They will wonder why Clan mechs work different, why the weapons are lighter, why stock mechs come "gimped" with no double heat sinks / endo steel / low armor values / small engines. Why lasers don't travel practically to the horizon and why our cannons don't come close to matching real world 1950s tanks, etc.

I've also heard that all Steam players have small hands (which makes it easier to steal your watch with) and that they regularly sell their children into slavery to pay for their wicked habits. They also have strange rituals when one knocks at your front door whilst the other sneaks in your window to steal your internets, and if you don't buy their lucky heather they will place a bad-ping curse on you.

Or that they are video game players, who have come across a couple hundred (thousand) other games with rules complications, abstractions from reality, and upgrade mechanics. And that MWO is essentially another tactical FPS, but with different refinements, so the average gamer is going to be able to get their head around it because the ideas of 'heat', 'loadout', and 'not a realistic representation of an utterly-unrealistic concept' isn't going to bake anyone's head.

One of the two

Although the Steamers might already be here... stealing your kills... putting marks on your house so other Steamers know to TK you... messing up your inventory when you're not looking....

[That Dawg]

SuomiWarder, on 25 February 2015 - 11:58 PM, said:

Yes, I have some fear about the plans to link into Steam. Obviously, PGI expects a bunch of new players. What scares me is that they will get them.

Most of these new players will have no love of - nor knowledge - of BattleTech.
I hope I am wrong. But the track record I have observed since closed beta makes me concerned.

And there in a nutshell is whats largely wrong with the game. Elitist players who think if someone isn't dipped in Lore up to their eyeballs, they dont understand or appreciate the game.
Welcome to elitist attitude.

Heres a thought, lets keep the player base to less than a thousand and if someone didn't play tabletop, they can't download the game.....

Its this narrow minded, selfish, shallow thinking that has plagued the game since....forever
we finally rid ourselves of the bane of that company which shant be named, and YOU are worried we get NEW players who dont have 3050 tattoos? offs

I had NO clue about battletech, lore, timeline, factions, blah blad deflipping blah blah. NOTHING

I got the game cause it looked cool and someone else played it. big stompy robot looking things..with GUNS..
There were a couple of hard core junky Lore types
guess what? They left, not "pure" enough.
guess what? I'm still here, and paying out each month for something for the heck of it.
So BRING steam, bring new players and make sure stuff shirt types like yourself dont chase them off too. I'd MUCH rather see the game morf into different playstyles from easy to hard core, more servers, more players- means MORE money, better devs, new...oh, I dont know.........MAPS??
Really, please dont tell me the lack of maps is cause they dont meet battletech, its cause they can't afford to hire map makers

[Wraith 1]

I know I'll be doing a lot of lurking on the feature suggestions forum after we hit steam.

It will be hilarious.

[Sjorpha]

kf envy, on 26 February 2015 - 12:14 AM, said:

you think the LRMing is bad the last weekend for the event. its for be LRMs as far as the you can see after MWO hits steam

Meaning those of us who use actual effective weapons can dominate more, I don't see the problem except that it will get annoying if too many LRM boats are on your own team being useless.

I don't actually think that will happen though, many steam players are young and with well tuned FPS twitch skills, and they will prefer the direct fire weapons over LRMs.

This whole conspiracy that "steam players" are some kind of cesspit of mouth breathing ******* that will ruin the game is just bullshit. Steam is an enourmous distribution platform used by all kinds of people. Trying to generalize about them is as stupid as trying to generalize about people who use google, twitter and facebook.

I do share the expectation that steam players may not understand the religiously enforced imbalances, I don't understand it myself. I accept it because the gameplay is very good, but it is extremely stupid design to not balance the actual tech of the two factions and instead obscure the imbalance with gimmicky quirks and locked subpar clan loadouts, when it would be so much better to actually go over the factions tech and makes them different but equally good. If Steam players helps put more pressure on changing that strategy into one based on sound PVP game design principles thats a good thing.

But all that aside, Russ said in the latest town hall that they now have a new employee working full time on a new tutorial, which will include in depth introduction to all the mechaniocs and fighting AI bots, which will also lay the groundwork for future PVE content in CW. I expect that to be part of the steam release which should help a lot with the introduction of new players, especially combined with the upcoming new "smurfy functionality" mechlab that Russ talked about in the same town hall.

Things are looking good, sorry if you can't see it but that's the truth. Critique of important issues is great, but doomsday prophecies are boring and useless.

Edited by Sjorpha, 26 February 2015 - 05:00 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Two things I really fear:
1. Server stability with more players - I just say "hitreg"
2. Frustrated steamers who discover "how fun teamkilling is"

[King Arthur IV]

-grind is too damn high
-no easy to find stats page for weapons and quirks (ahem smurfy link)
-20 matches and you are thrown in with the big boys.
-4 mech bays only
-no clue that you need 3 mechs to get to master efficiency.

not everyone has die hard fan boy patients.

[ROSS-128]

Honestly, I think it'll mostly be a matter of steering people toward the good (C) trials like the Hunchback 4P and Firestarter 9S. Those have endo and DHS already, and close to optimised loadouts (though the FS' jumpjet configuration is outdated).

And of course, warn them ahead of time to never drop in a stock mech unless it's a Stormcrow.

[Koniving]

SuomiWarder, on 25 February 2015 - 11:58 PM, said:

I know PGI is a business looking to increase their customer base. I just worry that they have not prepared enough for the "general public". By their own admission they started this project as B Tech fans aiming to please other B Tech fans. Unintended consequences of increased scrutiny might end up being the beginning of the end rather than a new beginning.

This (the entire post not just the quoted part) is why PGI needs to get on the ball with an actual, decent tutorial setup.

Back in 2012 I had described an idea tutorial scenario, using low-quality VR style graphics (Mechwarrior 2-esque) and a morphable terrain so that the tutorials could all be covered in a single dynamic map with a pilot that talks to you.
Akin to this for Clans.

And this for the IS.


Sometime later I played this, and noticed a lot of the things I mentioned in my feature suggestion to PGI.

[NextGame]

Mudhutwarrior, on 26 February 2015 - 03:33 AM, said:

If the elitists stop feeling so special and instead try to teach we will have no problems with steam.

If they keep the were so much better than the underhive mentality we will have lots of problems with a truly divided base.

Its a game, your not special.

Nobodys special. i just don't care.

[Lily from animove]

That Dawg, on 26 February 2015 - 04:43 AM, said:

And there in a nutshell is whats largely wrong with the game. Elitist players who think if someone isn't dipped in Lore up to their eyeballs, they dont understand or appreciate the game.
Welcome to elitist attitude.

Heres a thought, lets keep the player base to less than a thousand and if someone didn't play tabletop, they can't download the game.....

Its this narrow minded, selfish, shallow thinking that has plagued the game since....forever
we finally rid ourselves of the bane of that company which shant be named, and YOU are worried we get NEW players who dont have 3050 tattoos? offs

I had NO clue about battletech, lore, timeline, factions, blah blad deflipping blah blah. NOTHING

I got the game cause it looked cool and someone else played it. big stompy robot looking things..with GUNS..
There were a couple of hard core junky Lore types
guess what? They left, not "pure" enough.
guess what? I'm still here, and paying out each month for something for the heck of it.
So BRING steam, bring new players and make sure stuff shirt types like yourself dont chase them off too. I'd MUCH rather see the game morf into different playstyles from easy to hard core, more servers, more players- means MORE money, better devs, new...oh, I dont know.........MAPS??
Really, please dont tell me the lack of maps is cause they dont meet battletech, its cause they can't afford to hire map makers

It's not elitistic. It's realistic.

There are in the BT universe a few things that re not very logical, people will hop on this and say "it's stupid" or say thats a bad part of the game or broken or whatever . Because people are like this. And many of these things are just lore related.

Crits, ammo explosion damage transfer, is xl's going to blow while clanners not. DHS and the weird way of how they have some true DHS and some non true DHS.

Why a mech listed as 1.02 heat efficiency is running hot.

Many things and mostly lore related are "weird" and make no sense. So it will for many people that judge stuff objectively with a healthy brain as "broken" Especially when they just test this game for a short time. Without knowing/understanding the Lore they will wrongly judge some features.
Its not a thing about being elitist, its a thing about being realistic about how poeple work and how MWO (BT) works.

So yes it's needed to explain people, that this feature is not broken, its a true feature because lore. because they will not appreciate this objectively broken feature beign part of lore, which then returns into possibly a negative feedback in steam.

There ar e even now still many stupid and close to broken but lore features in the game in my opinion. But hey thats BT, so we have to deal with it.

[Bigbacon]

Sarlic, on 26 February 2015 - 01:26 AM, said:

When it hits Steam you actually get more aware that the pilots we have no are actually skilled and using (apart from laser vomit) some decent builds.

so every player is supposed to be awesome and use meta builds?

I love listening to you elite players sometimes...so far removed from so many aspects of the game.

Half the game is playing around with build good or bad and having fun doing so.

I bet most of the player base now doesn't care about lore and I'm sure most people coming from steam won't either. It isn't important to them. I am a fan of BT/MW and it doesn't matter to me. I just want a fun game to play that contains ideas and stuff from a pretty cool universe.

Lore isn't broken, it just that adding lore to an action game in many places doesn't even make sense.

Lore just creates problems that end up being a PITA for PGI I think because all the purists get their panties in an uproar over it. I understand PGI is using lore as a basis for things but they could/should move away from it in order to make the game different.

People complain about the new player experience here, go try some other free to play games, like World of Tanks. Absolutely unforgiving to new players. Little to no information about what things do. they give you a tiny little tutorial level and that is it. mechanics are never truly explained and you will sit there scratching you head in absolute rage over it. Its stupid hard, like BS hard. That and people dislike and usually skip that kind of stuff anyway.

It really isn't that difficult of a game to get (be good at is anothing thing) the only really hard part is, is building mechs. I'm not saying the in game builder is good or bad (i don't have a problem) but the fact that there is no Smurfy style, let me fake build whatever I want, is the part that is missing.

Its funny that it still seems like the top players want this to be just for them and that everyone who isn't top tier should just GTFO....

Edited by Bigbacon, 26 February 2015 - 05:12 AM.

[Fragnot]

MWO is a slow paced FPS where skilling up your chassis and min/maxing loadouts makes a huge difference in performance. These are very familiar concepts for the modern online gamer, new players who get hooked on the MWO style will do fine IMO.

I'll wager that the steam release will increase the overall population, and the ratio of ubers vs knuckleheads stays roughly the same as what we got now.

[Tarogato]

The community should formulate a checklist that PGI needs to complete before we accept that we're ready for Steam.

Something not unlike this:

Onmyoudo, on 26 February 2015 - 03:05 AM, said:

... as long as PGI completely reworks the

• UI,
  
• new player experience,
  
• economy,
  
• lack of tutorials,
  
• matchmaking algorithms,
  
• pilot trees
  
• module system
  
• explanations of ECM, ghost heat, Artemis, FF/Endo and double heatsinks, ... with the tutorials.

I personally would love to work on compiling such a list and keeping it detailed, yet concise and organised, and well updated. I would probably start doing it right now, but both threads on this site and threads on Reddit just get buried over time, so I don't really have a great medium available to me to maintain such a list.