52 replies to this topic

[MysticLink]

ECM should force people not to just boat lrms, but have lrms and other weapons just in case they can't use their lrms. With just lrms sitting at the back and firing it, it takes no skill. If you want to be just a lrm boat - then have tag and be ready to do your part instead of just relying on others while raining down missiles which takes no skill.

Have a lrm 15 and a lrm 20 but a lrm 60 and you expect their to be no risks in your load out...is just too much.

I think ecm is a good thing. Now with BAP as well, there should be no complaints.

Edited by MysticLink, 26 February 2015 - 03:34 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Are you suggesting the Magic Jesus Box is a skillful tool?

[MysticLink]

Mcgral18, on 26 February 2015 - 03:37 PM, said:

Are you suggesting the Magic Jesus Box is a skillful tool?

It forces skill on the whole community. Take out ecm first and be ready for a close brawl. Can't rely too much on lrms. But the problem is a lot of people boat lrms and then complain about ecm instead of being ready for it.

[Dock Steward]

MysticLink, on 26 February 2015 - 03:34 PM, said:

ECM should force people not to just boat lrms, but have lrms and other weapons just in case they can't use their lrms. With just lrms sitting at the back and firing it, it takes no skill. If you want to be just a lrm boat - then have tag and be ready to do your part instead of just relying on others while raining down missiles which takes no skill.

Have a lrm 15 and a lrm 20 but a lrm 60 and you expect their to be no risks in your load out...is just too much.

I think ecm is a good thing. Now with BAP as well, there should be no complaints.

They added ECM to this game?

[Green Mamba]

Mcgral18, on 26 February 2015 - 03:37 PM, said:

Are you suggesting the Magic Jesus Box is a skillful tool?

No more harder to use than Lurms

[Deathlike]

I laugh @ this thread and the logic.

I know LRMs are problematic, but they are not considered AT ALL at higher levels of play.

If anything, ECM is being used for many other things, not just anti-LRM usage that are primarily used against players that don't know any better (in other words, they don't know how to counter it, let alone use their eyes to spot the enemy and not rely on the red doritos).

That's the tragedy with the ECM mechanism as a whole.

LRMs are not good, but having ECM as currently constituted is not justification for LRMs being bad.

Edited by Deathlike, 26 February 2015 - 03:53 PM.

[Screech]

Well until someone sends Russ a tweet about active/passive sensors it will have to do.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

ECM is a worst crap that PGI has reinvented.
And that have nothing to little with LRMs,

[Corbenik]

Green Mamba, on 26 February 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

No more harder to use than Lurms

but ECM isnt an offensive weapon

[El Bandito]

1.5 ton of equipment cockblocking 20+ tons of weapons for the whole team. Where can I get that against easy-mode instant hit Lasers? I want my allies within 180 meters to be immune to lasers unless they are TAG/NARC/UAVed.

Bottom line--the GECM should function as canon GECM, not this Angel ECM + Stealth Armor bullshit.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 February 2015 - 10:04 PM.

[FupDup]

Fun fact: ECM's best utility isn't LRM blocking, it's red dorito blocking. No red doritos means no paper dolls and one less visual cue when targets poke their heads out.

[Xetelian]

In the land of timbers and crows someone must bring the hellbringer.

[KharnZor]

MysticLink, on 26 February 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

It forces skill on the whole community. Take out ecm first and be ready for a close brawl. Can't rely too much on lrms. But the problem is a lot of people boat lrms and then complain about ecm instead of being ready for it.

You are going to need a flame suit OP.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

ECM is broken, but worse, ECM is bad mechanics and bad gameplay.

As a rule, any time you can take a piece of equipment and render another piece of equipment pointless, something is broken. It's much the same issue as stun-locking (something PGI has scrupulously avoided with their Flamer and Lava mechanics).

What needs to happen is for ECM to be changed from one part of a hard-counter daisy chain into one of many electronic warfare options that buffs and/or debuffs things (soft counters).

I propose that ECM impose a 100% penalty to lock-on times, a 100% penalty to target info times, a 25% reduction in missile tracking ability, and a 20% reduction in detection range. It should also cancel BAP's LoS-free detection ability. I'd suggest that it also increase missile spread, but since I want to see LRMs changed to have the SSRM tracking mechanic anyway, that'd be unnecessary.

BAP should allow you to detect any mech within 90m regardless of LoS. It should also boost your base sensor range by 10%, and decrease your target info time by 50%.

The Command Console should give you and any allies who are targeting the same enemy as you a 25% reduction in lock-on times, as well as the current stats.

TAG should give you a 30% reduction to lock-on times, as well as a 50% boost in tracking capability.

NARC is fine how it is now, though I'd like to see it also boost tracking ability by 25% or thereabouts.

Artemis IV should reduce lock-on timers by 20% and radically boost tracking capability, say 70%.

The point of all this is to establish a system of bonuses and penalties that all interact one with another. Each bonus source would be unique, so no stacking TAGs, but each unique source would stack with each other (so TAG and BAP and enemy ECM modifiers would all interact).

Regarding the LRM tracking change I mentioned above, PGI should change LRMs to track in groups of 5 missiles each (LRM5 is one group, LRM10 is two groups, etc.). They'd target mech "bones" in the same manner as SSRMs.

[Graugger]

Nerf ECM and make the LRMs fly like Javelins - out and up then straight down on the target none of this arcing crap.

[WintermuteOmega]

El Bandito, on 26 February 2015 - 09:46 PM, said:

1.5 ton of equipment cockblocking 20+ tons of weapons for the whole team. Where can I get that against easy-mode instant hit Lasers? I want my allies within 180 meters to be immune to lasers unless they are TAG/NARC/UAVed. Bottom line--the GECM should function as canon GECM, not this Angel ECM + Stealth Armor bullshit.

Unless AIMING with Lurms would also not be treated like having C3 Master Units in every mech then we are good. With Tag Narc UAV and counter ECM there are many ways the LURM50-Train keeps on giving.

What you Anti-ECM-Guys want is first and foremost a Weapon without drawbacks: Shoot indirectly with no penalty. When Lasers you have to stay visible for long times to do real damage. With Ballistics you have the disadvantage of Ammo and high Tonnage/DMG relation. No weapon is the all in one weapon. You guys seem to forget, that you just have to bring TAG and peek a bit to still hurt plenty. And when i get caught off guard in the open and 2 or 3 Lurm-Boats target me, i am done in Seconds. ANd all you guys have to say is "yeah, but i can't do this all the time!!!". Boohooo...

As i see it, complaining about ECM is admitting that you depend too much on red dots and other Teammates to deliver your damage.

Graugger, on 26 February 2015 - 11:53 PM, said:

Nerf ECM and make the LRMs fly like Javelins - out and up then straight down on the target none of this arcing crap.

Oh, we had that Lurms... *shivering in horror*

Edited by WintermuteOmega, 27 February 2015 - 04:11 AM.

[Otto Cannon]

MysticLink, on 26 February 2015 - 03:34 PM, said:

ECM should force people not to just boat lrms, but have lrms and other weapons just in case they can't use their lrms. With just lrms sitting at the back and firing it, it takes no skill. If you want to be just a lrm boat - then have tag and be ready to do your part instead of just relying on others while raining down missiles which takes no skill.

Have a lrm 15 and a lrm 20 but a lrm 60 and you expect their to be no risks in your load out...is just too much.

I think ecm is a good thing. Now with BAP as well, there should be no complaints.

[Raggedyman]

MysticLink, on 26 February 2015 - 03:34 PM, said:

With just lrms sitting at the back and firing it, it takes no skill.

LRMs only take no skill if the other team think they are playing a game without LRMs in it.

As soon as you go "oh yeah, there are these things called LRMs that have been in the game since day 1. If I use cover/break LOS/take ECM/ take AMS then they won't just punch me in the face with them" then you have a real fight on your hands.

[mogs01gt]

MysticLink, on 26 February 2015 - 03:34 PM, said:

ECM should force people not to just boat lrms, but have lrms and other weapons just in case they can't use their lrms. With just lrms sitting at the back and firing it, it takes no skill. If you want to be just a lrm boat - then have tag and be ready to do your part instead of just relying on others while raining down missiles which takes no skill.

Have a lrm 15 and a lrm 20 but a lrm 60 and you expect their to be no risks in your load out...is just too much.

I think ecm is a good thing. Now with BAP as well, there should be no complaints.

So you think its good that a 1.5t item can cancel out entire mech chassis while allowing multiple mechs to sneak up behind people???

Im scared with the way some people think...

[El Bandito]

WintermuteOmega, on 27 February 2015 - 04:05 AM, said:

What you Anti-ECM-Guys want is first and foremost a Weapon without drawbacks: Shoot indirectly with no penalty.

I am not anti-ECM, you boob. I am anti-GECM functioning as AECM+Stealth armor. (the latter two are not supposed to be available for another 10 years, I might add) What I want first and foremost is the removal of hard counters.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 February 2015 - 05:32 AM.