270 replies to this topic

[The Red Priest]

I'll probably get banned just for asking something like this, but seriously, what's the deal between y'all? I just found out about MechWarrior: Living Legends three days ago, and mentioned it in a stream and everyone grew *EXTREMELY* quiet. Phil didn't sound too happy either. What's the big deal? It's just a mod. 343 lets TONS of Halo mods exist and progress and there's no animosity between them.






Edit: I don't know if this is the right place where I should post this. Mods, if not, move it to where it needs to be. Thank you!

Edited by mrripley9, 08 March 2015 - 05:07 PM.

[Accused]

Microsoft's fault, remember that. Nothing PGI did nope.

[Soy]

[Mystere]

Accused, on 08 March 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:

Microsoft's fault, remember that. Nothing PGI did nope.

Are you trying to imply that license holders are not allowed to defend their interests?

[Green Mamba]

Well there was a rumor of a Cease and Desist Letter but no one can Confirm or Deny it so no one except for a Few know the truth and that's where it stands and where it will probably stay ....I don't know what to think myself

[Cion]

Who's version do you want?

General public: MWO shut them down with cease and desist letters
Russ: "we talked about what it meant to duplicate work and we came to a gentleman's agreement. MW:LL shut itself down. No letters were sent to anyone"
MWLL: I don't know that they ever spoke of it

Public reaction: We miss MW:LL
Economic reason: competing product with MWO, divides the player base even more.

Edit: clarify that I'm paraphrasing to the best of my memory

Edited by Cion, 08 March 2015 - 05:05 PM.

[The Red Priest]

Green Mamba, on 08 March 2015 - 05:02 PM, said:

Well there was a rumor of a Cease and Desist Letter but no one can Confirm or Deny it so no one except for a Few know the truth and that's where it stands and where it will probably stay ....I don't know what to think myself

Talking with a few of the people at MW:LL that's true.

[The Red Priest]

I mean, you can still play MW:LL, but there won't be anymore updates because, according to people at MW:LL, PGI told them they could put out one more update and then production would stop. I want to hear both sides, basically. So if someone from PGI would like to answer, that would be great!

[Green Mamba]

mrripley9, on 08 March 2015 - 05:03 PM, said:

Talking with a few of the people at MW:LL that's true.

I never understood why a Dev team would just quit a project like MW LL Cold Turkey after all the hard work they put in it...it doesn't make sense unless

[Vassago Rain]

LL was a supposedly great game that won mod of the year, all year, for about 1000 years, yet never had any players, and balance was extremely questionable.

In short, it wasn't a fun game, but over the years, they allegedly cleaned up their act, and by 2013, you no longer got blown up by artillery, power armor could actually be hit, there were tons of maps, and so on. Despite not being fun, it was a technological masterpiece, and did things that crytek themselves assured wandering samurai that cryengine could never, ever, ever do.

Then, because people apparently felt extremely threatened that LL had like 100 players spread over 40 servers, microsoft, IGP, or whoever used 'friendly advice' to make the devs stop developing it before they could release a mechlab and MWO-styled aiming. The story and positions changed repeatedly, and we'll likely never know just what happened, or why, but the most likely reason is, people related to MWO felt pretty embarrassed that an ancient mod for an outdated version of the engine was more technologically advanced, and had more to do with battletech, than MWO.

It's not all bad, though. LL's devs moved on to rise rapidly in crytek, and after crytek had their little collapse, they were snatched up by RSI, of starcitizen fame.

LL footage.



Phil doesn't like talking about LL, its devs, MW4, and mektek, because the devs for those games allegedly have quite some bad blood for him, due to selling out to PGI.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 08 March 2015 - 05:10 PM.

[The Red Priest]

Green Mamba, on 08 March 2015 - 05:08 PM, said:

I never understood why a Dev team would just quit a project like MW LL Cold Turkey after all the hard work they put in it...it doesn't make sense unless

From what the people there told me, they didn't quit, so, yeah, it wouldn't make sense. >.>

I've been playing MW:LL with a few of the people that still play the mod(which are hardcore) and I've enjoyed it. Definitely a changed from the grind of this game(not saying this game is bad, both are great).

[Creovex]

Same as with everything else....

MWO pays for license, MW:LL doesn't. Thus, MW:LL was told by the owner of the license(rumor Microsoft) to walk.... Which they should have...

MODS are great, but when they use trademarked material, you should know better then to think you are anything but borrowed time.

Side Note: It played okay (more CoD then Simulator) but the JJs on mechs was like poptarting on crack while doing 20 other drugs and touching the moon.

Edited by Creovex, 08 March 2015 - 05:13 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Creovex, on 08 March 2015 - 05:10 PM, said:

MODS are great, but when they use trademarked material, you should know better then to think you are anything but borrowed time.

That's not how it works, or George Lucas would never have allowed any star wars related mods. It was shut down because the devs were working at crytek, and the other companies involved knew they could use that to leverage LL getting killed before they added a mechlab and good aiming - the inclusion of which would have turned LL into a grindless MWO with airplanes, tanks, combat vehicles, power armor, clans, better graphics, better sound, better everything, more maps, open to community projects, private servers...

I don't have to explain to anyone in here how embarrassing it would have been for a years old mod to eclipse the one commercial entry in the franchise.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 08 March 2015 - 05:19 PM.

[The Red Priest]

Creovex, on 08 March 2015 - 05:10 PM, said:

Side Note: It played okay (more CoD then Simulator) but the JJs on mechs was like poptarting on crack while doing 20 other drugs and touching the moon.

My experience has been different with the game style. It's more... tactical. I love the jump jets. xD It's actually jumping. xD

[mark v92]

played it a lot. It was very fun.
when they stopped updating the (not so large) playerbase took a hit. After that the gamespy servers were shut down which meant that you could not connect to servers like you would normaly do in crysis. That day the playerbase took a major hit because it was a bit of a hassle to connect to games. Still played a bit after that but stopped when i was playing mwo more and more.

I dunno what happened and it doesnt realy matter that much anymore. Still, its strange the guys quit working on it when they were almost done with some major updates that they never released.

Anyway, they did an awesome job. ressurecting machwarrior and stuff. Had a ton of fun.
SO thanks for the games to the people ive played with and thanks for the devs for making it awesome.

It was nice to hear that a couple of the devs were noticed and are now on the RSI team working on starcitizen

Edited by mark v92, 08 March 2015 - 05:39 PM.

[The Red Priest]

mark v92, on 08 March 2015 - 05:38 PM, said:

played it a lot. It was very fun.
when they stopped updating the (not so large) playerbase took a hit. After that the gamespy servers were shut down which meant that you could not connect to servers like you would normaly do in crysis. That day the playerbase took a major hit because it was a bit of a hassle to connect to games. Still played a bit after that but stopped when i was playing mwo more and more.

I dunno what happened and it doesnt realy matter that much anymore. Still, its strange the guys quit working on it when they were almost done with some major updates that they never released.

Anyway, they did an awesome job. ressurecting machwarrior and stuff. Had a ton of fun.
SO thanks for the games to the people ive played with and thanks for the devs for making it awesome.

It was nice to hear that a couple of the devs were noticed and are now on the RSI team working on starcitizen

From what I've been told by the MW:LL community, they were told by PGI to stop, or be taken to court basically.

[Taemien]

MechWarrior as a franchise or IP or whatever you wish to call it, is licensed to PGI by Microsoft. Therefor they can only use it (and speak about it) in ways the license allows them to. So any reaction in a stream is going to be because of that.

As for all the rumors about what happened to MWLL. The devs got tired of it. Plain and simple. If you followed their posts a year before MWO even came out you would have known a few things:

1. They could continue to develop. But they had to do so with mechs that were NOT slated for MWO yet. Thats why you saw the Daishi*, Blood Asp, and Rifleman pop up in some of their last patches. But not the Commando because it was slated to be in MWO.

*yes the Daishi is in MWO now, but it wasn't planned back then.

2. They got tired of developing for a MechWarrior game. There were too many restrictions with their license (they did have one from Microsoft). And the community was way too much of a bear to work with. People complaining about legging. People complaining about Aerospace and Artillery. Heck people were complaining about hit reg on 28-32 man servers when the Devs themselves said it would start past 16.

So.. with that said, they dumped the project (and were planning to do so months before MWO even came out in Beta) to keep sane and work on projects where they could have more freedom, and have less of a divided community. Lets be honest, the BattleTech/MechWarrior/MechCommander communities are insane to work with. You have Clanners, you have Spheroids... you have those that prefer SWars, Clan Invasion, and some that even like the FedCom War and Jihad. Everyone thinks their 'version' is best. And thats before you even get into the sub communities of those who want stock only, limited hardpoints, or unlimited modifications and other playstyles.

But of course the communities in question doesn't want to take the blame. So they're firing at PGI, MS, or even Catalyst Games or Topp who have no idea what is going on. Or even Harmony Gold, even though they didn't care that MWLL used the Warhammer, Rifleman, and Marauder.

[mark v92]

mrripley9, on 08 March 2015 - 05:41 PM, said:

From what I've been told by the MW:LL community, they were told by PGI to stop, or be taken to court basically.

thats what ive heard aswell. but ive heard a lot of things at that time.

one thing is for sure. They didnt quit because they felt like it. If that was the case they would have at least waited till they were done with those major updates and then call it a day. Not stop when they were almost done with those updates

They were working on those updates for months. You dont just stop right before they were almost done

Edited by mark v92, 08 March 2015 - 05:56 PM.

[The Red Priest]

mark v92, on 08 March 2015 - 05:53 PM, said:

thats what ive heard aswell. but ive heard a lot of things at that time.

one thing is for sure. They didnt quit because they felt like it. If that was the case they would have at least waited till they were done with those major updates and then call it a day. Not stop when they were almost done with those updates

I was actually speaking to one of the Devs today about it, but I'd also like to hear PGI's side of the story, because, well, there are always two sides to a story.

[Coolant]

Cion, on 08 March 2015 - 05:03 PM, said:

Who's version do you want?

General public: MWO shut them down with cease and desist letters
Russ: "we talked about what it meant to duplicate work and we came to a gentleman's agreement. MW:LL shut itself down. No letters were sent to anyone"
MWLL: I don't know that they ever spoke of it

Public reaction: We miss MW:LL
Economic reason: competing product with MWO, divides the player base even more.

Edit: clarify that I'm paraphrasing to the best of my memory

Don't miss it at all. Mektek was doing just fine having released 3 Mekpaks before MW:LL and was beta testing a 4th. Some of us remained loyal to MW4:Mercs and the nearly decade of fun, blood and tears.