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Not Understanding Lights


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#1 Lady Athena

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 03:01 AM

I wanted to play lights. I think I'm rather good in them especially the Trial RVN. Multiple times already I've been able to be a complete nuisance and draw fire as my enemy bashed them.

I used my credits mistakenly to buy the RVN -4x. I simply do not get this mech, or even any of the RVN's as I see they all have the whomping top speed of 80kmh.. .Which is as slow as a heavy if not slower..

I upgraded the engine for a whopping 4 extra KMH... I simply cannot get this down or understand what my purpose is other than to be fodder.. I've taken to just playing the trial RVN since I can do incredibly well for a beginner in it..

Basically I don't want my credits t ogo to waste, and I'm wondering what the RVN-4x is even supposed to do. I see it has a Artemis, which is supposed to help missiles, but it seems to be a whole mash of fail and un synergizing weapons.. Missiles, lasers, and guns all on one, with a stupid slow movement speed.

Even attempting to play it as a small/light missile boat is proving to be a joke.

#2 Joe Decker

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 03:07 AM

The Raven 4X can run 140 kph with max Engine and Pilot Speed Tweak...

It still is one of the weaker Ravens though.

If you wanna try a Build : http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d5d6d3fe1d35fcf

Edited by Joe Decker, 14 March 2015 - 03:13 AM.


#3 Tarogato

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 03:16 AM

View PostLady Athena, on 14 March 2015 - 03:01 AM, said:

I wanted to play lights. I think I'm rather good in them especially the Trial RVN. Multiple times already I've been able to be a complete nuisance and draw fire as my enemy bashed them.

I used my credits mistakenly to buy the RVN -4x. I simply do not get this mech, or even any of the RVN's as I see they all have the whomping top speed of 80kmh.. .Which is as slow as a heavy if not slower..

I upgraded the engine for a whopping 4 extra KMH... I simply cannot get this down or understand what my purpose is other than to be fodder.. I've taken to just playing the trial RVN since I can do incredibly well for a beginner in it..

Basically I don't want my credits t ogo to waste, and I'm wondering what the RVN-4x is even supposed to do. I see it has a Artemis, which is supposed to help missiles, but it seems to be a whole mash of fail and un synergizing weapons.. Missiles, lasers, and guns all on one, with a stupid slow movement speed.

Even attempting to play it as a small/light missile boat is proving to be a joke.

Basically, the new player experience has failed you because it's terrible.

Here is a site where you can build mock-ups of mechs outside the game and play around to your heart's content: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab

First of all, it sounds like you're trying to use the stock build. Stock builds in this game are a steaming pile of excrement because they come from Battletech lore - they don't translate well to a live action shooting game. All light mechs need to be equipped with XL engines to be effective in MWO, not STD engines. They're very expensive, but they're mandatory.

If you did nothing else but upgrade to an XL engine of the same weight, your Raven would run 102kph. If you also applied the Double Heatsinks, Endo-Steel and Ferro-Fibrous upgrades, you'd be able to fit the maximum engine (XL275) with 2.25 tons left over and you'd run 127kph.

So first, buy all three upgrades. Then decide what weapons you'd like to equip. The Raven 4X gets 30% range boost to all energy weapons, and a 30% reduction to the laser duration. It also gets 15% faster missile fire and 30% increased ballistic range, but those two quirks aren't as valuable as the energy quirks on this variant, IMO.

Once you've decided the loadout you like, buy an XL engine that fits with the remaining tonnage. Here's an empty mech with the upgrades and armour fixed up to the ideal, so you can play with it: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a6ffd7b8c9decbf

Let us know what you come up with using that site (by clicking Share Loadout at the top) and we can help you decide whether it will be worth making those purchases in the actual game and using the build. For instance, if you buy a certain XL engine, you can actually use that engine for many popular and effective builds in other mechs, essentially saving credits because you're sharing the engine. If you buy the wrong XL engine, it will be useful for your one single build, but nothing else. We'll help you in getting the right stuff. =]

Edited by Tarogato, 14 March 2015 - 03:27 AM.


#4 Modo44

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 03:40 AM

Be as annoying as humanly possible. Finish hurt mechs. Never, ever stop.

#5 Hit the Deck

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 04:04 AM

Yes, "unfortunately" it cost sh1t load of money to upgrade a stock mech for new players (mainly because of the XL engine). But if you have done it, try a 2x Large Pulse Laser + Jump Jets build. I think you'll like it ;)

XL 255/250
Ferro Fibrous and Endo Steel upgrade
1x Jump Jets
shave some Left Arm and Head armor to be able to put 2x Large Pulse Laser on the Right Arm

Move with your team and shoot from behind the main line. Thats it!

#6 TercieI

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 07:48 AM

View PostJoe Decker, on 14 March 2015 - 03:07 AM, said:

The Raven 4X can run 140 kph with max Engine and Pilot Speed Tweak...

It still is one of the weaker Ravens though.

If you wanna try a Build : http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d5d6d3fe1d35fcf


The 4X is easily the worst Raven now and one of the weakest lights, period. and that's after it's fully upgraded.

@OP: I hate to say this, but if you haven't put real money in yet, I'd strongly suggest you create a new account and start over. The cadet bonus only comes once and, through no real fault of your own, yours has been pretty much wasted. You've got a long climb from here. That said, if you can do ok in the trial RVN, you've got potential as that build is terrible.

#7 Tarogato

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 07:55 AM

View PostTerciel1976, on 14 March 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:

The 4X is easily the worst Raven now and one of the weakest lights, period. and that's after it's fully upgraded.

@OP: I hate to say this, but if you haven't put real money in yet, I'd strongly suggest you create a new account and start over. The cadet bonus only comes once and, through no real fault of your own, yours has been pretty much wasted. You've got a long climb from here. That said, if you can do ok in the trial RVN, you've got potential as that build is terrible.

OP stated they liked the RVN-3L, so I disagree. This might be an opportunity to buy all three Raven variants, get the 3L mastered, and sell the other two. It's what I did, and I have no regrets.

@Lady Athena: I'm talking about the skilling process. You need to buy three different variants of a chassis to unlock the Elite tier under the Skills tab in game. Most mechs are lackluster until you finish the Elite skills.

Edited by Tarogato, 14 March 2015 - 07:56 AM.


#8 Koniving

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 08:10 AM

View PostLady Athena, on 14 March 2015 - 03:01 AM, said:

I wanted to play lights. I think I'm rather good in them especially the Trial RVN. Multiple times already I've been able to be a complete nuisance and draw fire as my enemy bashed them.

I used my credits mistakenly to buy the RVN -4x. I simply do not get this mech, or even any of the RVN's as I see they all have the whomping top speed of 80kmh.. .Which is as slow as a heavy if not slower..

I upgraded the engine for a whopping 4 extra KMH... I simply cannot get this down or understand what my purpose is other than to be fodder.. I've taken to just playing the trial RVN since I can do incredibly well for a beginner in it..

Basically I don't want my credits t ogo to waste, and I'm wondering what the RVN-4x is even supposed to do. I see it has a Artemis, which is supposed to help missiles, but it seems to be a whole mash of fail and un synergizing weapons.. Missiles, lasers, and guns all on one, with a stupid slow movement speed.

Even attempting to play it as a small/light missile boat is proving to be a joke.

In the source material, Ravens are decently fast... most mediums/heavies are actually 64.8 kph, assaults around 48.6 kph, and lights are between 81 (86), 97 and 129 is usually the top end of mech speeds.

All mechs have double armor, and can go to max armor with pinpoint simultaneous weapons fire. This is against source material, (in terms of campaign-based customization rules; MWO mostly uses modified 'make your own mech' construction rules instead) and thus what would be a highly effective brawling light -- is easily canon fodder.

Bit more on some things like seeming to be slow.
Spoiler


What you need to do is change the loadout to suit the game we're in. I personally use an AC/20.



Works pretty well. There are other things you can do as well. But ultimately the mech practically requires an XL engine regardless.
Make certain to get double heatsinks and endo steel as well.

Far as what you can do, consider the events of this video.

Edited by Koniving, 14 March 2015 - 06:11 PM.


#9 Tim East

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 11:31 AM

You could always bring back the gauss raven. It's not very good though.

The play environment has changed so many time since I played a 4X, I really can't advise you that well. I know I used to do adequately in a slow 2 AC2 Raven 4x, but that was before the speed changes to mechs in general, the nerf to AC2s, and the partial un-nerf to AC2s. You probably shouldn't try it unless you end up with c-bills to burn and a desire to be silly.

Speaking of c-bills, aren't you glad that CW doesn't pay IS people in h-bills and clan people in honor? Can you say "exchange rates?"

#10 Koniving

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 11:44 AM

View PostTim East, on 14 March 2015 - 11:31 AM, said:

Speaking of c-bills, aren't you glad that CW doesn't pay IS people in h-bills and clan people in honor? Can you say "exchange rates?"

I'm not so glad. Truth be told I'd still like to have all accounts treated as two sub-accounts, one for IS and one for Clan, in the form of being able to click one button or another to switch which 'pilot' you are using. This way players could always sample both sides and see it's not as cut and dry as "this is OP over that."
I'd also believe that CW would have more players actively participating since they wouldn't be 'as divided' in just occupying a single faction, given that each would occupy two factions. I also would have started the map as the Clans being much farther out to start with almost no tangible territory in the IS, giving the FRR more of a chance to defend itself.

Though yes the exchange rates would really get you no where if the non-CW stuff panned out the same way it does now. I'd imagine if a Clan was interested in something and wasn't going to say "I will bring one Summoner to take your restaurant come morning, what meager forces do you send in your defense. You dare refuse my batchall!?", then the Clanner would likely have to sell some Clan tech to get rich super quick.

Edited by Koniving, 14 March 2015 - 11:52 AM.


#11 Tim East

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 11:52 AM

View PostKoniving, on 14 March 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

I'm not so glad. Truth be told I'd still like to have all accounts treated as two sub-accounts, one for IS and one for Clan, so that players could always sample both sides and see it's not as cut and dry as "this is OP over that."

This would actually be super-cool imho.

Though the thought of exchange rates fluctuating based on the volume of currency and the solvency of the house government... The FRR would be even more screwed.

Edited by Tim East, 14 March 2015 - 11:53 AM.


#12 Koniving

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 12:09 PM

View PostTim East, on 14 March 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:

This would actually be super-cool imho.

Though the thought of exchange rates fluctuating based on the volume of currency and the solvency of the house government... The FRR would be even more screwed.

True. Though lets be honest, I can't fathom the Clans even trying to exchange stuff for quite some time into the invasion. They spend most of their time taking it through semi-honorable combat so why would they need to? (Smoke Jaguar being a huge exception -- Insert references of the IS people conducting a semi-peaceful protest as insanity, barbarism, uncivilized behavior and responding in kind with an orbital bombardment).

[Inserted Orbital Bombardment stuffs.]
Spoiler


Having them split would be a grounds for being able to capture technology, as well as a heavy influence for an R&R system. But we'll see what the future holds.

-----------

But back to lights.

Ravens tend to be among the slower of 35 ton lights. However to completely write them off would be a mistake. Their excellent hitbox design means you can channel all but 2 armor forward and cut the cockpit armor to almost nothing. This gives you plenty of tanking ability and some extra weight to play with. With a large XL engine you can easily reach 150 kph after unlocking speed tweak. The ballistic hardpoints can be used with heavy guns for some hard hitting firepower or packed with MGs, some missiles and energy weapons for a more rounded fighter. The MGs are handy when you're running hot as well as for disabling enemy weapons once you opened their armor. 2 MGs can easily disable larger weapons like AC/20s in a matter of seconds.

Edited by Koniving, 14 March 2015 - 12:16 PM.


#13 Insects

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 04:44 PM

Lights need the biggest XL they can fit, there are situations where you can downsize, but for starters just max it.
Endo compulsory.
DHS compulsory (on all weight classes)
Fero depends, build dependant, its a small gain and will often cause you to run out of slots before weight.

Lights aren't cheap, they are going to cost you as much as an assault by the time the essential upgrades are done.
This is why people who cry about "its too easy for lights to kill my Atlas!!!" need to stop crying and deal with it, those lights are an equal investment and deserve to be competitive.

The game is a struggle for new players, cadet bonus helps but really needs a bit more, and desperately needs better official guide/instruction.

#14 Richter Kerensky

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 05:20 PM

The Raven-4X isn't one of the better Ravens, but I had some luck with an XL200 engine and a LB10X-AC, if you use it to peek around/over obstacles at close range and shotgun people. I only really put up with that long enough to get it basic'd so I could elite the 3L though.

Edited by Richter Kerensky, 14 March 2015 - 05:21 PM.


#15 Neutron IX

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 05:22 PM

View PostKoniving, on 14 March 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

I'm not so glad. Truth be told I'd still like to have all accounts treated as two sub-accounts, one for IS and one for Clan, in the form of being able to click one button or another to switch which 'pilot' you are using. This way players could always sample both sides and see it's not as cut and dry as "this is OP over that."
I'd also believe that CW would have more players actively participating since they wouldn't be 'as divided' in just occupying a single faction, given that each would occupy two factions. I also would have started the map as the Clans being much farther out to start with almost no tangible territory in the IS, giving the FRR more of a chance to defend itself.

Though yes the exchange rates would really get you no where if the non-CW stuff panned out the same way it does now. I'd imagine if a Clan was interested in something and wasn't going to say "I will bring one Summoner to take your restaurant come morning, what meager forces do you send in your defense. You dare refuse my batchall!?", then the Clanner would likely have to sell some Clan tech to get rich super quick.


I put a poll up in the suggestions forum with almost that exact idea.

I couldn't agree with you more on all of the above!

#16 InspectorG

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 06:25 PM

View PostLady Athena, on 14 March 2015 - 03:01 AM, said:


Even attempting to play it as a small/light missile boat is proving to be a joke.


Most of us know that feelz.

I started in a Commando, and sucked real bad for 6 months.

Being a light pilot is, in the current meta, disadvantaged. You cant really brawl and you can get one-shotted.

That being said, if you think you are crazy enough...

Some tips ive learned and listen to the good light pilots. Terciel1976 andKoniving has given me good advice, so i guess i can try t pay it forward.

Once you get 'good' you can play with and break these suggestions:

1. You will die, a lot. Get used to it. Your damage will suck for a while. Get used to it.
2. Dont be the first guy in a charge, dont be the last. Hide in the herd.
3. Look at the radar for map-awareness. Think, 'where can i poke to get those Red Doritos to turn away from the fight and chase me?', 'where can i jump into the brawl and not get noticed', 'where is my team going?', 'who needs help', and 'these clowns aint got a clue, im out'.
4. Be afraid, always look over your back and ASSUME every corner you peek will be your last.
5. If they saw you coming, you did it wrong.
6. if it was a fair fight, you did it wrong.
7. If you dont run like a coward half the time, you are likely doing it wrong.
8. Dont bother scouting, let the LRM boats get their own locks(unless you are team dropping- do as the team does)
9. When in doubt, shoot their RT
10. Smart>strong>weak
11. In a Pug, stay with the Assaults sometimes and escort, especially on big maps or when they get left behind.
12. look for slow assaults left behind, you get to pick them off...circle of life and all that. Follow the rain for a LRM boat sitting all by itself.
13. DONT get into a dogfight with another light...unless his ST is cored, maybe. You end up just losing armor maybe even your life.
14. REMEMBER, messing with a direwolf and getting it to turn and try to shoot you keeps it from shooting at your team...this is how you contribute. Please dont let the Direwolf actually hit you though, you likely wont like it.
15. when trying to rear-core an assault, stay behind his hips, not his back...some can twist fairly far. If you even get a whiff of his teammate coming to help, RUN
16. in the MWO settings, put mouse sensitivity and acceleration to 'zero', this steadies the aim.
17. When you peek-a-boo, DO NOT peek more than twice from the same spot, they will leave their reticle where you last poked and dual gauss your favorite face. Not good.
18. LATE MATCH is when you 'vulture' as in kill the weak and dying enemies. You are a force of Nature. Do not feel mercy.
Sometimes you need to 'stretch' the enemies apart to get them, otherwise they gang up on you and that isnt fair. Chase the cookie is what you want them to do...chase you into their doom.
19. on Conquest, with the big map stages - you can peel from the group and cap. You want 3 caps and 1st team to 500 pts usually wins. IMO - and this is my opinion, 2 fast lights should cap, rest of team should fight to get a numbers advantage.
20. if capping, its generally better to run than fight over it...cuz you can steal one of their caps in the process.
21. Assault, you generally dont have range or firepower to take out base turrets by yourself, unless you do.
22. Do not overhead and shut down. Just dont. You will be a free kill for some scrub who likely didnt earn it. If you are getting hot, run off to cool down and use chain fire. Late match, well, obviously use some leeway with this rule.
23. Once you have a decent grasp on light piloting, get some Locusts. Its a club of ownership and the only entry fee is a recognizable craziness to want to run around in a suicide box on 2 legs. The E and PB are pretty boss though. Dont get hit.

All in all, be a chicken**** coward. Steal stuff, dont fight for it.

Welcome to Light Club. If its your first night, you have to die!

#17 Koniving

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 06:36 PM

Back on topic...

This Smurfy link is a basic 'shell' of a Raven 4X with armor allocation to make it as survivable as possible. Just be careful about people shooting the legs; despite full armor they are the easiest parts of your body to hit.

Posted Image

The simple road. Ideal for the pop-zap-and-squat.

Stock upgraded to MWO standards. Boatloads faster for maximum annoyance!

Energy Sharpshooter. Hot. But high front loaded damage.

Ballistic sharpshooter. Tons and tons of ammo. Just pop up and enjoy, don't let anything get close. Tag for some extra earnings.

LRM turret. Does it need explaining?

Charge of Death. Gauss Rifle. 25 shots. Make every shot count.

Long Range Harassment. Twin AC/2s. Backup lasers.

Fast yet practical harassment. AC/2, twin lasers, AMS, max engine.

AC/20 Raven. Can easily be modded for backup weapons. 3 tons of ammo shown.

AC/21.2 Raven unlimited ammo. Twin large pulse lasers.

Any of these can get extra tonnage with the additional "Ferro" upgrade.

Edited by Koniving, 14 March 2015 - 06:38 PM.


#18 dragnier1

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 09:21 PM

View PostTim East, on 14 March 2015 - 11:31 AM, said:

You could always bring back the gauss raven. It's not very good though.

I'd prefer the ac20 raven. The extra ton for ammo or others.

#19 Furyo Chagui

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 09:46 PM

As a Spider mech pilot i recommend u as a light mech the Spider or Firestarter. I get some kills with the Spider 5K model,but its fairly playstyle than mech model. More than that i want to say u that my first kill with that mech,was VS a weak Dire Wolf. The mech configuration that im going to show u was a mech that kills weak targets with hit and run tactics,like every light mech.

See my actual configuration of Spider 5K: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7bebfd543065547

But remember to not be a target of any enemy mech or u go to floor in seconds,specially if an assault mech target u in front.

Edited by Furyo Chagui, 14 March 2015 - 10:13 PM.


#20 CruiseMissileCowboy

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 08:53 AM

In most cases, the Raven chasis is used with ECM and ERLLs for long range sniping/scouting.
If you are looking for good IS light action, work on the Jenners and Firestarters with Jump Jets. None of the light mechs work very well until you can get up to XL290+ engines and can move at 150Kp/h. That takes time because it requires cbills and the speed tweek on three mechs of the same chasis. Stick with it though, Jenners, Firestarters, and even Ravens can be great fun!





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