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So With The Catapult


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#21 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 10:26 AM

View PostYCSLiesmith, on 18 March 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

lmao this is the worst idea. LRMs aren't bad weapons because they require skill, they are bad weapons because they deal poor, untargeted damage, exclusively to bad players.

LRMs provide no challenge, they are fire and forget weapons. The reason tehy suck is the low skill ceiling: you get good with lrms, holding locks and everything, and you've come as far as you can go with that weapon. there's no more worlds to conquer. Your 500 damage per match is as good as you are going to get, ever, for as long as you insist on using garbage weapons.

meanwhile actual direct fire weapons require you to hit moving targets in specific places on the run while exposing yourself to enemy fire. You have to manage your armor, aim, make good use of cover, flank enemies, etc.

choosing to [limit] yourself doesn't mean you're a [redacted] who is taking on the True Challenge. it means you're a [surat] who can't pull your own weight.

as for why I am not just letting people play as they like: this is the newbie forum. Some guy with a three day old account is gonna come in here and read you all talking about how your lrm 60 crab with four machine guns or whatever is a really great mech. it's harmful to new players to say dumb things, and its worse when those dumb things go unchallenged. someone has to set him straight.

please share your opinion without insulting other people and disregarding their opinoin.

e.g. an ALRM5 chainsaw build with line of sight and tag will put the vast majority of missiles on the enemy center torso provided you have line of sight and keep that TAG on target, a 5+ ALRM5 build on a Mech wuirked for LRMs with the cooldown module will literally be firing a volly every half second, and will usualy get multiple kills per mission.

my ALRM30 4MPL 3MG Timber Wolf is my most sucessful build, only the pre nerf TDR-9S Lightningbolt managed to hit similar results to that TBR.

my opinion is that LRMs are not useless but do take more skill than any other weapon to consistently use well.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 25 March 2015 - 03:22 PM.
Language in quote


#22 Voivode

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 10:30 AM

View PostYCSLiesmith, on 18 March 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

lmao this is the worst idea. LRMs aren't bad weapons because they require skill, they are bad weapons because they deal poor, untargeted damage, exclusively to bad players.

LRMs provide no challenge, they are fire and forget weapons. The reason tehy suck is the low skill ceiling: you get good with lrms, holding locks and everything, and you've come as far as you can go with that weapon. there's no more worlds to conquer. Your 500 damage per match is as good as you are going to get, ever, for as long as you insist on using garbage weapons.

meanwhile actual direct fire weapons require you to hit moving targets in specific places on the run while exposing yourself to enemy fire. You have to manage your armor, aim, make good use of cover, flank enemies, etc.

choosing to [limit[ yourself doesn't mean you're a [redacted] who is taking on the True Challenge. it means you're a [surat] who can't pull your own weight.

as for why I am not just letting people play as they like: this is the newbie forum. Some guy with a three day old account is gonna come in here and read you all talking about how your lrm 60 crab with four machine guns or whatever is a really great mech. it's harmful to new players to say dumb things, and its worse when those dumb things go unchallenged. someone has to set him straight.


This right here is why there are so many clueless Timberwolves in matches these days. The attitude of the mech or weapons make the pilot, not the other way around. New players need to learn how to play the game. No mech or weapon is going to do that for them.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 25 March 2015 - 03:23 PM.
Language in quote


#23 Takashi Uchida

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 12:03 PM

Playing a wide variety of mechs and styles is the appeal of MW to a casual player like me, and it's been that way for all the games in the MW universe I've played.

I'll take the crash and burn Locust rounds to pull a 6 kill, 700 damage game in one of those things, while the opposing team berates their own comrades for dying to a baby mech over al chat.

But hey, perhaps this is the hero MWO deserves, warning all the newbies about the crappy mechs. Someone's got to do it right?

#24 Richter Kerensky

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 02:20 PM

View PostRogue Jedi, on 18 March 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

please share your opinion without insulting other people and disregarding their opinoin.

e.g. an ALRM5 chainsaw build with line of sight and tag will put the vast majority of missiles on the enemy center torso provided you have line of sight and keep that TAG on target, a 5+ ALRM5 build on a Mech wuirked for LRMs with the cooldown module will literally be firing a volly every half second, and will usualy get multiple kills per mission.

my ALRM30 4MPL 3MG Timber Wolf is my most sucessful build, only the pre nerf TDR-9S Lightningbolt managed to hit similar results to that TBR.

my opinion is that LRMs are not useless but do take more skill than any other weapon to consistently use well.


The skill of "point cursor in general direction of large box" is lostech, for sure.

#25 Voivode

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 02:21 PM

View PostYCSLiesmith, on 18 March 2015 - 02:14 PM, said:

quoted redacted post


A bad match in an LRM mech will do less to damage a new players' experience than listening to e-peen stroking.

I get it. You don't like LRM mechs. I want you to get this. Other people don't care that you dislike LRM mechs. I'm sure you're l33t and all, but the OP asked specifically about the Catapult, which is an LRM support mech, because they had purchased it. We are answering the OP's questions as people who own and run Catapults (among MANY other mechs)

Edited by Catalina Steiner, 19 March 2015 - 08:33 AM.


#26 YCSLiesmith

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 02:23 PM

View PostRichter Kerensky, on 18 March 2015 - 02:20 PM, said:


The skill of "point cursor in general direction of large box" is lostech, for sure.

well lets be fair: there's apparently a bug in LRMs right now which means you actually have to point them at the enemy. hopefully it will be patched soon lmao

View PostVoivode, on 18 March 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:


A bad match in an LRM mech will do less to damage a new players' experience than listening to e-peen stroking.

I get it. You don't like LRM mechs. I want you to get this. Other people don't care that you dislike LRM mechs. I'm sure you're l33t and all, but the OP asked specifically about the Catapult, which is an LRM support mech, most likely because they were interested in running an LRM support mech. We are answering the OP's questions as people who own and run Catapults (among MANY other mechs)


I gave him catapult advice immediately. t's like, the fourth post in the thread.

#27 Voivode

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 02:33 PM

Yes, advising him to sell the mech he just bought, after he just sold another mech, thus wasting millions of cbills is really great advice. Definitely going to improve his experience.

#28 YCSLiesmith

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 02:37 PM

Cbills can be earned but the time wasted on a mech that isn't any good at all can never be regained.

#29 Chef Kerensky

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 03:03 PM

View PostVoivode, on 18 March 2015 - 07:09 AM, said:


LRMs are the most challenging weapon in the game. Dual gauss got dull fast, ERLL spam got old.

At some point you've got to take the training wheels off and prove to yourself you have skill in the game by beating your opponents with "bad" mechs and weapons. Otherwise, it's like buying a game and never getting past the tutorial.


This is not how skill works.

#30 FerrolupisXIII

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 03:03 PM

Yes, the catapult isnt in a great place in the game right now. no, LRM's are not particularly good weapons.

is having fun with a mech and loadout you like a waste of time? not at all. if he likes it and is having fun, there is no problem.

i used to run LRM's because my old Computer could barely run the game. i spent over a year playing this game at hilariously low FPS. people thought i was using a joystick to aim. and guess what weapon system was a godsend? the LRM. i could deliver solid damage and support in my Founders C1, and not feel like a total drag, even if i probably was.

Do new players need steering in the right direction? yes. such as saying the Command Console is fairly useles on this build, take other things.

Is telling them that they are bad for using LRM's and the mech is bad so don't use it the right way to go about it? not at all. if someone says "what can i do with my catapult" its much more helpful to give constructive advice on how to build a catapult then tell them they're dumb and should buy a new mech. perhaps that isnt an option right now. maybe they dont have the C-bills. maybe they LIKE the catapult and dont care it isnt a "good" mech.

being a **** to new players makes them not want to play, not change how they play.

#31 Moat Drifter

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 03:25 PM

View PostYCSLiesmith, on 18 March 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

It amazes me that there are so many people who are attached to LRMs. Don't LRM. They are a bad weapon.


I think a lot of the time of those who use SRM's and SSRM's in the same way. Granted, they are more effective in close-range brawls and what-not, but when you have been playing the game for just over two weeks against people who have been playing for over two years, the longer the range for me until I can better grasp the controls and everything that is required to play well, is what I would prefer. Plus I live that much longer for those much-needed c-bills and xp. I cannot afford to always lose 20k c-bills each match I get killed.

Also, I do not know who said it, Voivode, I think it was? Anyway, I do not think LRM's are all that difficult to master and use, I really find the Gauss Rifle to be the most difficult weapon to use, trying it out on a few trial 'Mechs' if anything, would not use them if I was not so stubborn to learn to master every weapon type or at least give it one heck of an attempt to learn them effectively.

Edited by Moat Drifter, 18 March 2015 - 03:28 PM.


#32 Richter Kerensky

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 03:27 PM

You don't lose money when you're killed. The only thing that can cost money after a match is refilling any consumables you had equipped.

Edited by Richter Kerensky, 18 March 2015 - 03:27 PM.


#33 Taisa Sodai Lopez Kerensky

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 03:27 PM

View PostVoivode, on 18 March 2015 - 07:09 AM, said:


LRMs are the most challenging weapon in the game. Dual gauss got dull fast, ERLL spam got old.

At some point you've got to take the training wheels off and prove to yourself you have skill in the game by beating your opponents with "bad" mechs and weapons. Otherwise, it's like buying a game and never getting past the tutorial.

Posted Image

#34 Moat Drifter

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 03:36 PM

View PostVoivode, on 18 March 2015 - 10:30 AM, said:


This right here is why there are so many clueless Timberwolves in matches these days. The attitude of the mech or weapons make the pilot, not the other way around. New players need to learn how to play the game. No mech or weapon is going to do that for them.


Hence the reason I am taking the time to carefully asked about all about things I do not understand. Knowledge power, very much the same as strength does. Know all you can and you can use it when it becomes necessary.
As for some comments, while some contradict others, whether right or wrong information, it is all still good to have and read over. One person's mistake can be a luck-fall for you, so all information is good (unless someone purposely feeds you misinformation).

View PostTaisa Sodai Lopez Kerensky, on 18 March 2015 - 03:27 PM, said:

Posted Image

View PostRichter Kerensky, on 18 March 2015 - 03:27 PM, said:

You don't lose money when you're killed. The only thing that can cost money after a match is refilling any consumables you had equipped.


You do actually, or at least I have noticed it saying that for a failed mission (one in which I am killed) I lose 20k C-Bills, but truthfully, I cannot say if I recall the same thing happening or not if I get killed but my team wins the match anyway...

#35 Havyek

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 04:17 PM

CPLT-C1
Stick around 400-500m, Tag, LLAS and LRM away!

Edited by Havyek, 18 March 2015 - 04:17 PM.


#36 YCSLiesmith

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 04:27 PM

View PostFerrolupisXIII, on 18 March 2015 - 03:03 PM, said:

if someone says "what can i do with my catapult" its much more helpful to give constructive advice

my constructive advice is that you can sell it for about 5 million cbills iirc.

#37 YCSLiesmith

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 04:30 PM

View PostMoat Drifter, on 18 March 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:


Hence the reason I am taking the time to carefully asked about all about things I do not understand. Knowledge power, very much the same as strength does. Know all you can and you can use it when it becomes necessary.
As for some comments, while some contradict others, whether right or wrong information, it is all still good to have and read over. One person's mistake can be a luck-fall for you, so all information is good (unless someone purposely feeds you misinformation).




You do actually, or at least I have noticed it saying that for a failed mission (one in which I am killed) I lose 20k C-Bills, but truthfully, I cannot say if I recall the same thing happening or not if I get killed but my team wins the match anyway...

Look dude do what you want with your mechs but pretty much anyone who recommends that you put LRMs on any mech at any point for any reason can be disregarded.

Also you don't lose money for losing. you lost 20 thousand cbills because you killed two people on your own team. that's the only way to lose money (as opposed to spending it) in mechwarrior online. a teamkill penalizes you 10k cbills. [redacted]

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 25 March 2015 - 03:25 PM.
Unconstructive


#38 Richter Kerensky

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 04:33 PM

If you still want a Catapult I'd recommend the K2 or Jester (the Jester requires IRL Cash Dollars). You do not lose money for dying or losing a match. You lose money for a teamkill (10k) and for resupplying UAVs, Airstrikes, Artillery, etc (40k).

Edited by Richter Kerensky, 18 March 2015 - 04:35 PM.


#39 Tesunie

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 04:58 PM

View PostYCSLiesmith, on 18 March 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

...they (LRMs*) are fire and forget weapons.


Actually, LRMs are not Fire and Forget weapons. You have to maintain that lock the entire time. It's a common misconception many players (especially new ones) have. LRMs require a steady and uninterrupted lock for most/all of their flight time.
*Added in clarification as to what "they" are.

Edit: Typo was corrected.

View PostMoat Drifter, on 17 March 2015 - 01:55 PM, said:

I decided that the Mad Dog was not for me after all, not with some of the variants of weapons I wanted to equip it with, so I decided on the Catapult CPLT-C1 (because I like jumping, especially in that horrid Viridian Bog map - am I right????) but as far as weapons are concerned, I am not sure what is the best to equip it with.
Since I am somewhat of a long-range and medium-range fighter, I have the two LRM 15 (sadly does not with Artemis :-( ) but for the other weapons, I am not sure if pulse lasers work best or if should go with the normal lasers (medium and or large)... I would normally put on an AMS system, but since it takes up too much slots and therefore limits the number of weapons or equipment I can put on, I tend to leave it off.
Does anyone have any suggestions for a good CPLT-C1 build (load-out)?

Much appreciated,
Moat D.



For the OP:
If you wish to use LRMs, which are decent weapons depending upon the situation, I wrote up several guides on the matter. Some of them are long winded, as there are a lot to go over as the LRM systems are rather complicated to use.

MWO: Forums - Lrms, Spotting, And You 6/20/13 - Is probably my more thorough guide on LRM use, as a teammate with someone else who has LRMs, and as a player who may use LRMs within a match.

MWO: Forums - Guide: How To Spot - Is mostly covered in the above thread as well.

MWO: Forums - Lrm Guide: Lrms Require Skill To Properly Use - Still may have some useful pointers in it, but it's a little dated.

And as a final guide an LRM user may find helpful:
MWO: Forums - Guide: A Balance Concept To Mech Building - Presents a different style of mech construction that may come in handy. I find it successful for myself on the average. Finding the exact balancing point for each mech for each person's playstyle is something one mush do themselves.


Overall, I'd just suggest you try and find something you enjoy playing with. If LRMs are your thing, then play with them and don't let anyone stop you or tell you otherwise. If you wish to experiment (I always suggest people do) with other weapons, by all means do so. This is a game. A game's goal is to be enjoyed. So, have fun and use what you want/like to use.

Sadly, I have not used any Catapults, so I can provide no direct advice for the chassis. I do recommend you bring your own TAG and try to acquire your own locks if/when possible. I also strongly suggest you always being backup weapons. Remember, LRMs don't need to be boated to be effective. It's all in how you want to use them.

Edited by Tesunie, 18 March 2015 - 05:00 PM.


#40 Richter Kerensky

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 05:01 PM

Or you could not use LRMs at all and not handicap yourself by dealing unfocused damage. All of the best competitive teams and most successful CW teams do not use LRMs, full stop.





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