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So With The Catapult


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#41 Taisa Sodai Lopez Kerensky

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 06:18 PM

The K2 is the Coolest and Most Stronk of the Catapults.

I would Recommend any new player to avoid Heavy Dependance on LRMs. Energy, ballistic and regular SRMs are all good and teach you how to aim. They will also have you move with your team more.

LRMs do not teach any useful skills other than how to use the R button. The damage totals you get from LRMs are spread damage, not focused like the other weapons. You can do 500 damage in a match with LRMs, but it will be spread across the components of the mech compared to focused damage from direct fire weapons (lasers, gauss etc).

#42 Tesunie

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 06:19 PM

View PostRichter Kerensky, on 18 March 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

Or you could not use LRMs at all and not handicap yourself by dealing unfocused damage. All of the best competitive teams and most successful CW teams do not use LRMs, full stop.


Best does not mean everyone. Some people play this game to relax and have fun. If they enjoy LRMs, we should not tell them otherwise. Also, I've seen LRMs used by a lot of good units, and to good effect. A lot of it depends upon how it's intended to be used.

To be honest, I find LRMs are great support weapons in tight spaces where I can't get a clear line of sight through friendly teammates. So, instead of shooting my direct fire weapons, I shoot my LRMs over them and into their targets. Every point of damage helps.


As my advise stated, use what you enjoy. The OP, with the Catapult he has chosen to use, can honestly go one of four ways; LRMs, SRMs, Lasers or some combination of those systems. The Catapult line is actually not a bad mech. Most of them are missile heavy, but they can do enough lasers, and the line is able to use all weapon types, via the K2. Mastering this chassis should be helpful to a new player's overall skill development, as they can get the chance to experiment and learn with any weapon in the game by the time they master the chassis.


LRMs are not a bad system, but they do lack focused damage. They are a utility weapon that can be used effectively, depending upon how it's intended to be used, the situation and the play style of the user.

We could go into how every weapon system is "bad" if we wanted to, when compared to a specific set of situations or circumstances. We can also provide advice to players, and let them experiment on their own and figure out for themselves what they like and what works for them. The more someone experiments, the better.

I actually would advise every player to use LRMs at least to some extent, as well as all the other weapons in the game. The better you understand how each weapon works, the better you can grasp counter tactics and ways to fight against those weapons. An example I would use here is, I've used LRMs for a while, and I know how they work. Thus, when someone shoots LRMs at me, I am aware of how they are going to move, and I am better able to dodge the missiles because of those skills. I don't even equip AMS on any of my mechs, and I don't need to depend upon ECM to stop LRMs either.

The above example could be applied to many other weapons. The more you know about the game, typically from first hand experience, the better you will play. So, experiment with the game. Learn how everything works. Let people play as they play, and provide helpful advise when they ask for it. Even if you feel it is a waste for a player to use LRMs doesn't mean it will be a waste of their time to learn how the weapon works. If they like it, then so be it. If they don't, then they will have learned that information and moved on.

#43 kosmos1214

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 06:25 PM

well heres what i run on mine a little hot but more then managable i tell peaple its a timber cat

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...74baab80e325fe6

if you want drop a heat sink for a ton of ammo

#44 stealthraccoon

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 06:56 PM

View PostYCSLiesmith, on 18 March 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

Look dude do what you want with your mechs but pretty much anyone who recommends that you put LRMs on any mech at any point for any reason can be disregarded.



I like to run LRM's on my Commando 3A, not to mention small lasers and single heat sinks. Also I run my Mist Lynx (aka Drizzle Kitteh) with LRM's, and I have a ball of a time. Hell, even my current Locust 3S has LRM's on it right now, and for no good reason I got 4 kills on Sat night with it. LRM5's are one of my favorite weapons. Why? Because when I played TT, I used them - effectiveness be damned, I have a good time.

#45 Levi Porphyrogenitus

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 07:49 PM

View PostRichter Kerensky, on 18 March 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

Or you could not use LRMs at all and not handicap yourself by dealing unfocused damage. All of the best competitive teams and most successful CW teams do not use LRMs, full stop.


Here are a few things to consider.

1 - Are you a member of a self-declared competitive team?

2 - Do you play 12-man community warfare drops frequently?

If you answered Yes to both, then you should tailor your builds to whatever your team needs.

If you answered No to both, then disregard anyone who says that you must do whatever the "comp" players do. They're exactly the kind of players who cause all the "meta build" stupidity, because they lack the imagination or the will to come up with stuff on their own and instead insist on immitating those who they consider to be their betters.

By way of a bit of explanation, I've been playing MWO consistently since Closed Beta. I've been running the C1 for most of that time, on and off. Since they began tracking stats, I've run 96 matches in the thing, with a solid kill/death ratio. My win/loss is quite positive with over 6,000 games played (again, since they started tracking stats; many more before that).

Now that all the preliminaries are out of the way, I can state that I stand by the C1 build I posted earlier in the thread. I also stand by the use of LRMs, if you know how to use them properly and aren't worried about coordinating with a "competitive" 12-man group, and if you enjoy them mechanically.

I will affirm, though, that every LRM build needs significant defensive weapons. Never run pure LRMs. If you bring an A1, bring some SRMs or SSRMs to accompany your LRMs, or else you're basically a free kill.

Edited by Levi Porphyrogenitus, 18 March 2015 - 07:49 PM.


#46 YCSLiesmith

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 04:11 AM

View Poststealthraccoon, on 18 March 2015 - 06:56 PM, said:



I like to run LRM's on my Commando 3A, not to mention small lasers and single heat sinks. Also I run my Mist Lynx (aka Drizzle Kitteh) with LRM's, and I have a ball of a time. Hell, even my current Locust 3S has LRM's on it right now, and for no good reason I got 4 kills on Sat night with it. LRM5's are one of my favorite weapons. Why? Because when I played TT, I used them - effectiveness be damned, I have a good time.


Sure. fine. I'm glad you enjoy yourself. [redacted]

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 25 March 2015 - 03:27 PM.
Unconstructive


#47 Voivode

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 08:58 AM

View PostYCSLiesmith, on 19 March 2015 - 04:11 AM, said:


Sure. fine. I'm glad you enjoy yourself. [redacted]


So what happens to this guy when he takes your advice and sells the mech he just bought, scrounges cbills to buy the flavor of the month mech.....and then PGI introduces a change that makes that less powerful and the meta moves on to something else? I've seen people quit the game because they sold all their mechs on the advice of a "play to win" player and then the meta got slapped with the nerf bat and they were stuck with a small pool of mechs that only filled one role and that role wasn't nearly as powerful as they were told it would be.

The guy bought a Catapult, so we're providing him with Catapult builds which are going to be LRM builds. Best advice is to build his catapult, have fun with it, and then later as you get some cbills buy some other mechs that fill other, non-lrm roles and enjoy those as well.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 25 March 2015 - 03:27 PM.
Unconstructive in quote


#48 FerrolupisXIII

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 10:14 AM

like a bunch of us have said, we are well aware that LRM's are not competitive. yes, the meta is pinpoint damage, either through Clan Laser Vomit or IS gauss or Laser builds with the occasional PPC. you're quite correct. yes, this makes the Catapult of dubious usefulness in Comp or CW drops.

In Pug drops, no one really cares that much. as long as you can put damage down range you'll do as well as a lot of the puggers do. i've seen plenty of pugs in meta builds that dont know how to use them and do absolute garbage in matches while the LRM guy does solid damage on priority targets like enemy assaults, allowing others to go toe to toe without worrying.

Could they perhaps do better in a pinpoint build like a Laser Wolf or a gauss mech or the ever popular Stormcrow? its possible. maybe they just don't feel like it that day. sometimes its fun to change the pace. I'm not a stellar light pilot but hey, ill take out my Sarah's Jenner for giggles sometimes. its got next to no quirks and is a walking CT. but its fun.

the C1 purchases for about 5.8 mil. the chassis stripped sells for about 1.2. its honestly not worth it to sell it unless you are out of mech bays or have decided you really absolutely hate the chassis. which if the guys is asking for suggestions, he probably doesn't. hes saying hey i dont mind it but maybe i could build it better, its a lot more productive to pass him a functional build than to sit around and call everyone stupid trash who should be disregarded because they try and be nice instead of a snarky meta is the only way jerk.

#49 YCSLiesmith

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 10:35 AM

View PostVoivode, on 19 March 2015 - 08:58 AM, said:


So what happens to this guy when he takes your advice and sells the mech he just bought, scrounges cbills to buy the flavor of the month mech.....and then PGI introduces a change that makes that less powerful and the meta moves on to something else? I've seen people quit the game because they sold all their mechs on the advice of a "play to win" player and then the meta got slapped with the nerf bat and they were stuck with a small pool of mechs that only filled one role and that role wasn't nearly as powerful as they were told it would be.

The guy bought a Catapult, so we're providing him with Catapult builds which are going to be LRM builds. Best advice is to build his catapult, have fun with it, and then later as you get some cbills buy some other mechs that fill other, non-lrm roles and enjoy those as well.


if he scrounges and works to buy a mech that is decent in the meta and the balance changes immediately so that LRMs are good then i guess that sucks but it's not something I'd hold my breath for. I'd recommend he buy a workhorse mech like a dragon 1n or a thunderbolt or the stalker 4n, all of which are amazing mechs which, when paired with skill, will rapidly pay for themselves. if afterwards the meta moves away from his mech of choice, he can sell it and buy a new mech with the cbills he has earned.

alternately he could buy a mech that he knows will never be nerfed. I recommend the Timber Wolf, the single best mech in the game.

#50 Voivode

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 10:50 AM

Since he will get a negligible amount of cbills for selling his Catapult, why not keep it and purchase another mech as he gets money in game? Selling it really does little for him except minimize the diversity of his stable of mechs. Keeping the Catapult doesn't prevent him from purchasing a Timberwolf of Dragon or Stalker. Maybe it makes it so he has to wait a couple more days before buying one, but it certainly doesn't preclude him from buying one.

I mean, look at the current meta. Thunderbolts weren't on anyone's "meta" radar before quirks hit. People who sold their TBolts for being "uncompetetive" had to go back and repurchase, which wastes millions of cbills. A diverse stable of mechs is the best insulation from shifting game mechanics and the subsequent meta changes. Who knows, maybe the OP will have a good time in his Catapult and put together a Timberwolf in a few weeks from the earnings.

Edited by Voivode, 19 March 2015 - 10:50 AM.


#51 FerrolupisXIII

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 11:00 AM

Can Confirm: thunderbolt was absolute trash. then suddenly everyone wanted to have them again and i had a good laugh because mine were in mothballs, and already skilled out from the Phoenix packs.

as another note, pick up Thunderbolts if you like IS heavies. many of them have nice laser build options, and they run a lot like the Catapults as they are the same size. so when you want to get a "Real" mech that will make these meta guys less grumpy, have a look at those. you can get 2 of them for the cost of 1 timberwolf. plus you dont have to be a clan tryhard ;)

#52 YCSLiesmith

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 11:27 AM

View PostVoivode, on 19 March 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

Since he will get a negligible amount of cbills for selling his Catapult, why not keep it and purchase another mech as he gets money in game? Selling it really does little for him except minimize the diversity of his stable of mechs.

I assumed that he's a new player with 4-6 mechbays. in that case filling one of those mechbays with a bad mech is crippling. especially when you're learning the game, dying in the first few moments and dropping again right away. you want to have a pretty uniform stable of mechs at first so you can elite your favorites.

if he wants 'diversity' and 'suboptimal fun mechs' and the like he's got a ton of truly putrid trial mechs. spending money and time on bad mechs seems to me to be the opposite of fun, though.

#53 LiGhtningFF13

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 11:43 AM

A thread about the old Catapult. Thank you for this one here, almost forgot that this piece of wasted metal and electronic is available in this game. I assume that I even got some of them somewhere in my countless mechlabs. But I have to admit that I don't dare to take this type of chassis ever again. Had bad experiences with that thing.

#54 Tesunie

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 05:56 PM

View PostYCSLiesmith, on 19 March 2015 - 04:11 AM, said:

Spoiler



You have already made your point very clear. You have also already stated your points. You are now off topic in this thread by continuing your behavior. You have been insulting people in this thread, instead of providing advise.

You have said your peace. Now, like others before you, it is time to probably leave this thread and leave the OP to make their own decisions. Weather they use LRMs, SRMs or lasers is completely up to the OP's choice.

View PostYCSLiesmith, on 19 March 2015 - 10:35 AM, said:

Spoiler



And the Dragon (all of them) were considered trash before the quirks that made them good by a lot of people's standards. They were considered as too fast, too lightly armored, with a CT that could not be missed with too few weapons. (Yet I loved mine before the quirks, and I still love my Dragon after them.)

Any mech you suggest could at any moment be altered by PGI to make it less or more useful. I recall when the Catapult was considered an OP mech, back in the days of the Splatcat and the Streakcat. So at one time, people would have recommended the Catapult over just about any mech.

We don't know what mech will "never be nerfed", for the record.

I'd also like to point out, isn't it normally better to earn C-bills with a mech you can customize/own/work on rather than play Trial mechs even longer? Don't know about you or anyone else, but the fun of this game increased when I got my first mech I could customize. So why advise him to sell his mech now, when he can use that mech to play with, learn with, and keep at least until he earns another new mech? (They also tend to give out mech bays often enough to make it semi-worth keeping old mechs around.)

Also, to make the remark on what the OP had to say:
Spoiler


It seems like LRMs could be a good weapon for him to learn, but that he is also very capable of developing his own ideas. By continuing down the comment trail you are, you are just degrading this thread and sending it off topic. Please, stop trying to debate your point. Your point has been made. We got it. I don't think anything more can be said on either side of the LRM topic, for or against. Now it is time to let the OP come to their own decision.

(This will be my last response about this, as it really is just distracting the topic of this thread more than helping at this point. Plus, the OP has not posted themselves in a little while...)

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 25 March 2015 - 03:29 PM.
Unconstructive in quote


#55 oldradagast

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 06:07 PM

View PostRichter Kerensky, on 18 March 2015 - 02:20 PM, said:


The skill of "point cursor in general direction of large box" is lostech, for sure.


You mean like holding a Gauss rifle over a pixel, releasing the button, and getting instant damage. Yeah, that's also "skill."

Meanwhile, the LRM player is having to contend with ECM, Radar Derp, and the inability of his weapons to deal damage under 180 meters... and the flight time of the missiles... But we're to believe that requires no skill while "point and click" clearly does.

Don't make me laugh. If LRM's were the "no skill easy button" the whiners made them out to be, everyone would be using them... except at higher levels of play, nobody does and it's all point and click damage... such skill!

As for the OP, the Catapult is fine if you like missiles - a lot! And LRM's can be reasonably effective, though at higher levels of play they tend to vanish because ECM and Radar Derp are more common, as is a solid knowledge of the maps and where cover is located.

Edited by oldradagast, 19 March 2015 - 06:08 PM.


#56 Voivode

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 06:21 PM

[

View PostYCSLiesmith, on 19 March 2015 - 11:27 AM, said:

I assumed that he's a new player with 4-6 mechbays. in that case filling one of those mechbays with a bad mech is crippling.


If he's a new player, he's probably dropping in matches where LRMs are more effective anyways.

#57 Levi Porphyrogenitus

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Posted 19 March 2015 - 06:40 PM

As an aside, you can run a C1 with SRMs and/or big energy pretty decently, though it won't benefit nearly as much from the available quirks.

CPLT-C1 could be fun, and a big change of pace from the standard near-stock build.

#58 Madcap72

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 01:28 AM

I run LRM5's on my catapult A1 and can get any where from 500-1000+ damage depending on how I have it built out, and normally get 2-3 kills per game, and match scores in the 50-60 range (topping out around 140 at times).


LRMS are one of the most powerful weapons in the game when optimized, and utilized with even a hint of teamwork.

The same optimization (I.E. I use atremis, Beagle active probe, command console, and advanced sensor range module) in order to get super fast locks, at the max range of my missiles. (With range module for 1100m max range) This same optimization benefits all team members with target locations, and gets me tons of free c-bills for spotting bonuses.

#59 YCSLiesmith

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 03:04 AM

View PostVoivode, on 19 March 2015 - 06:21 PM, said:

[

If he's a new player, he's probably dropping in matches where LRMs are more effective anyways.

sure, absolutely. But if he starts to rely on LRMs now he will learn a way to play that has seriously diminishing returns later on after he's got through his cadet games.

#60 Kyynele

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 04:38 AM

View PostYCSLiesmith, on 20 March 2015 - 03:04 AM, said:

sure, absolutely. But if he starts to rely on LRMs now he will learn a way to play that has seriously diminishing returns later on after he's got through his cadet games.


Looking more positively at it, The C1 does have lasers in it. Even if he'd spend most of his game time lobbing LRMs indirectly, there's bound to be times when he's forced to a brawl and will have to use those lasers. After he's done that for a while and no longer panics when it happens, he should notice that the easiest and most reliable way to kill an enemy mech is to shoot those lasers in it's weakest spot.

And there's not that long a way from that to proceeding to full, comp scene approved laser boats.

Besides that, he'll probably learn some decent places to take cover from enemy LRMs while shooting his own and seeing where he can't hit stuff.

I've played quite a bit of solo pug LRMs in the past, and look, I turned out just fine! >_>





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