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Jenner vs Raven


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#41 Dovoid

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 05:21 AM

Jenner = hunter
Raven = support

#42 DeathsWelcome

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 05:31 AM

If the Jenner is anything close to what it is on the table-top, the Jenner is more superior in my eyes. I loved the Jenner because of the speed and JJ ability to jump behind a mech and plaster its back with lasers. I can imagine that in MWO, if the Jenner pilot is a good one and knows how to move around correctly then it could be a valuable mech. I vote Jenner all the way.

#43 wargonglok

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 05:38 AM

I think this is what is gonna happen, your variant must have electronic warfare in its variant to use elm and stuff, your variant must have jj to equip or unequip them.

so raven can't jumped but has electronics and jenner has jj.

I don't have exact quote but i remember a development saying at 120 k/h you are very hard to hit.

Scouts make money by finding targets and keeping them "lit" (found)

for scouting i will use raven. everything else: urbie :-)

#44 Fahr

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 05:48 AM

additionally, the Raven has a better mix of hardpoints to use in some variants, like the 4x has laser, missle and ballistic, as far as I know it is the only light so far to have all 3 in one mech. whether you cna make use of them is a different question at that tonnage, but the option is there.

ECM, BAP, TAG, and NARC are why i am going raven, that and JJ never helped me get out of trouble, they just made me a skeet target.

#45 wargonglok

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 06:34 AM

I just read in another thread that electronic warfare suites won't be harding based and that you can put them on anything. They where probably wrong but does anybody have more info?

#46 Artaire

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 06:36 AM

Raven for me, its the ultimate sturdy light scout mech in my opinion, and its really quite well balanced too.

Edited by Artaire, 10 July 2012 - 06:36 AM.


#47 Tezkat

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 06:56 AM

View Postwargonglok, on 10 July 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

I just read in another thread that electronic warfare suites won't be harding based and that you can put them on anything. They where probably wrong but does anybody have more info?




This was addressed in the mechlab dev blog and subsequent Q&A:

Quote

For mounting equipment (such as AMS, BAP, ECM), will we be able to place it anywhere there is critical space, as the devblog indicates heat sinks can be placed, or will those items have hardpoint limitations as well? –Solis Obscuri

[DAVID] For the most part, you’ll be able to place non-weapon equipment anywhere, subject to critical slot and tonnage restrictions. Though there are some restrictions. Some are derived from the tabletop rules, like CASE being allowed only in the torso locations, while others are specific to our game, like jump jets being allowed only on variants and locations that include jump jets by default.


ECM and such will not be hardpoint limited, and it's implied that they will not be mech limited, either. After all, there are many canon mechs of all shapes and sizes sporting variants with advanced electronics.

#48 vettie

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 07:22 AM

nice thread

I have never liked the looks of a Jenner, but that is just cosmetic, nothing to do with ability.

Have to admit, I have used the Raven much more than a Jenner. I didnt care of the Jenner in MW2 series and I found the Ravens harder to kill.

Many have already said it here - depends on what you are trying to role. I like jump jets, but have often found them to get me damaged or destroyed simply by jumping at the wrong time and not knowing where all the bad guys were

What we dont know, yet, is what electronics will be in game when we start, how they will be implemented, and how they work work in regards to your own mech, your team mates. We dont know if they will be installed on some mechs (such as the Raven) in Prime configs and available to others at a cost of critical space / slot (meaning you may have to give up some weaponage to be able to install those fun toys, or armour, or speed/engine size, etc...)

As some have made ref to, the electronics may be something you have to unlock (by achieving xp or cbills) to have access to them.

I had asked Ace Timberwolf (the member that went to the E3 show and actually got some hands on time with the game) if he could tell much about the electronics and at that time they were not installed/working, of course its still beta so anything can change / be added.

Boils down to what you want to do and what you want your mech to do. Both mechs have roles, both have +'s and -'s. If you belong to a team and cant decide for yourself (and can get only 1 mech at this time) then talk to your team mates an let them help you decide, but its mostly - what do you feel comfortable in doing? As Smokey says "Only You"...

Oh and PS - thanx for the links to both mechs - interesting stuff there

#49 McNik97

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 07:30 AM

A scout mech should have a minimum speed of 90km/h or more. The sensors of the raven give him a big plus-point, but the jenner has his jumpjets which he can use to jump over mountains/buildings or canyons. I would prefer the raven with his advanced sensores, but if it was possible to give the jenner (founders mech) this too, i would choose the jenner.

Hope I could help.

Edited by GDL McNik, 10 July 2012 - 07:31 AM.


#50 Zygwen

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 08:18 AM

Since I have the Founder's Jenner I'll probably try to fit as much electronics and a NARC on it if I can.

If not, I'll stick to using the Jenner for hit and run.

I would be cool though if I could TAG a mech and call in my own Arrow IV Strike.

#51 Name48928

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 08:48 AM

I'm hoping the Raven will include a bonus to information warfare.

If not, I'll stick to scouting in my Jenner.

#52 rooster

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 08:49 AM

i dont like the jenner, looking at the information we have so far.

the jenner may have more weapons than the raven but the raven still outguns the jenner, soon as that NARC hits every LRM is going to be headed towards that jenner. so in combat i think the odds are stacked for the raven.

As a scout the raven has ECM and a BAP. Its slower than the Jenner but on the other hand the cicada is faster than the Jenner.

To me the only selling point is its jumpjets. Hopefully i will be playing with dedicated LRM mechs.

Edited by rooster, 10 July 2012 - 08:52 AM.


#53 Aeryk Corsaer

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:01 AM

View PostWoodstock, on 01 July 2012 - 02:48 AM, said:

According to what we know of MWO there are only really two differences between them.

Jump jets.
Hardpoint layout.

Everything else can be customised. As they are the same tonnage ...similar profile ... the differences are minor.

However

I suspect that we will also see radically different 'module' layout which will make the raven a far superior scout.


The module variance between 'Mech models will be key in how a person can and will utilize a design. I believe as you do that the Raven will have more module slots to emphasize the models expertise in reconnaissance.

#54 Glythe

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:12 AM

View PostTezkat, on 10 July 2012 - 06:56 AM, said:

ECM and such will not be hardpoint limited, and it's implied that they will not be mech limited, either. After all, there are many canon mechs of all shapes and sizes sporting variants with advanced electronics.


Thanks for digging up that quote. That to me kind of ruins the Raven... I mean you can go with a Jenner and have jump jets, ECM and NARC. The only thing that might make the Raven more appealing is if it actually had some kind of antispotting bonus built into the mech itself.

#55 Aeryk Corsaer

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:13 AM

I am choosing the Jenner mostly because I bought the Founder package.My preference is to have jump jets on my scouts for that extra maneuverability.

#56 Bluten

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:15 AM

People are judging this argument at face value, like judging a book by its cover. You're not taking into account unlockable modules/talents for the Mechs, which will most likely feature advanced radar/electronic advantages for the Raven. The Jenner is more of a combat scout. It's still most likely that the Jenner will be more popular, easier to use, and preferred in solo play for its superior combat performance; but in other aspects of play, such as organized pre-mades, your team may end up wanting you to pilot a Raven to actually have better radar capabilities. Piranha clearly isn't intending to have any Mech be rendered worthless by another Mech and seeks proper balance. As such you can bet that the Raven, like any other Mech, will have advantages and disadvantages.

The Mech I'm more worried about is the Commando. I seriously doubt sacrificing another 10 tons for extra speed you probably won't need is worth it. Every Light Mech can already firmly place itself in the triple digits and will have enough speed regardless, so I see no real benefit in piloting a Commando over a Jenner or Raven. Unless they put in some kind of bizarre capture the flag mode(Which would seem rather stupid in MechWarrior), I don't see that extra speed being worth anything.

#57 Schtirlitz

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:37 AM

Raven looks better, but no jets.

#58 Wyr

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:10 AM

I think my Hussar would chew both… But if I need to pick one I would go with Raven.

#59 Bodha

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:37 AM

good news folks! Between the Raven and the Jenner you will be able to find a 35 ton mech build that will complement your playstyle. Between them they basically got all the options covered, except perhaps for a ballistic focused mech.

Now for those that want to talk primer variants its pretty obvious the Raven has all the electronic toys and the Jenner has the speed, jump jets and edge on firepower.

Now back to your regularly scheduled debating.

#60 Glythe

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:40 AM

View PostBluten, on 10 July 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

People are judging this argument at face value, like judging a book by its cover. You're not taking into account unlockable modules/talents for the Mechs, which will most likely feature advanced radar/electronic advantages for the Raven. The Jenner is more of a combat scout. It's still most likely that the Jenner will be more popular, easier to use, and preferred in solo play for its superior combat performance; but in other aspects of play, such as organized pre-mades, your team may end up wanting you to pilot a Raven to actually have better radar capabilities.

Take a look over here:

http://static.mwomer...ev_blog4_01.jpg

At best you're talking about a 3.5% bonus to detection prevention if this scheme holds. I think I'd rather have 20 kph faster base speed, jump jets and more weapons (not to mention an overall less expensive mech).



View PostBluten, on 10 July 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

The Mech I'm more worried about is the Commando. I seriously doubt sacrificing another 10 tons for extra speed you probably won't need is worth it. Every Light Mech can already firmly place itself in the triple digits and will have enough speed regardless, so I see no real benefit in piloting a Commando over a Jenner or Raven. Unless they put in some kind of bizarre capture the flag mode(Which would seem rather stupid in MechWarrior), I don't see that extra speed being worth anything.


The Commando is very small next to the other mechs and that combined with its high speed should make it very hard to shoot. The stock variant comes with a 10 missile barrage burst capability. So what you're looking at is the ultimate driveby machine; zip past bigger mechs and unload a 20 damage missile burst from behind. The default setup gives as much damage from its missiles alone as 2 PPC hits.

How about a Commando with:

8/12 movement (200 engine)
6 tons of Endo steel armor
XL engine

2X SRM 6
2 Tons SRM ammunition

The build value of this guy is 671 points. You know what that goes great with? An Atlas Horde!

What if half the team is running around in nearly unhittable commando mechs and the rest are all driving an Atlas? You know the enemy is going to laugh at first when they a bunch of commandos; and then they'll be getting hit from behind as two or three commandos unleash a missile swarm while they are looking at the Atlas in front of them. I think the Commando will do just fine in organized play. With 15000 BV for a team you can have 6 Commandos and 5 Atlases to back them up.

Note that the damage per ton on this build is 0.96; that's pretty tough to beat. Even with the ES and XL engine you're looking at a cost of 3.2 million.

Edited by Glythe, 10 July 2012 - 10:53 AM.






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