44 replies to this topic

[Rogue Jedi]

zaibitsu, on 19 March 2015 - 08:49 PM, said:

So I guess I'm saving up for the Raven 3L.

As a noob, I have to ask though: how is RVN-3L better then SPR-5D? They both have ECM, 3 energy hardpoints, the quirks are very similar regarding lasers. I'm missing something when comparing mechs because I dont see what makes 3L better choice than SPR-5D.

the 3L and 5D are the main contenders for best ECM mech, the RVN 3L has more firepower the SDR-5D has more mobility, I find the mobility of the 5D allows me to get into better positions allowing me to do more damage and is generally be more fun to pilot, however it is all down to personal preference, I am sure there are just as many people who prefer the 3L as the 5D, they are just different play styles, the 5D is a great scout/harasser, the 3L is better as a spotter/sniper.

[Kyynele]

Richter Kerensky, on 20 March 2015 - 12:10 AM, said:

Easy. The Raven 3L can mount ECM, which makes it more difficult to target by enemy LRMs and every mech within a 120m radius equally difficult to target with LRMs, and it can mount 2 ER Large Lasers and still move at around 150 kph, whereas the spider can only mount 1 ER Large Laser at best and cannot mount ECM/.

That's disinformation. 5D is the ECM-enabled Spider, you can have ECM in it. You can also mount 2 ERLLs in it rather easily: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...17301e52b02ccae

The reason why I'd say the Raven is better, is because the Raven is a 35 ton mech, and Spider is 30 tons. As you can see, the 5D can do 2xERLL with ECM and a JJ (which the Raven 3L can't get), but because it's 5 tons lighter, it can't do it using the max engine, or without sacrificing considerable amounts of armor, which you can do with the 3L: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...18a18a5d419f7fa (although you probably would want to drop the engine size for example to 280 and get extra heat sinks for increased sustained DPS)

Also, the other variants for Spiders besides the 5D are honestly rubbish (can be fun to play at times, but can't call them effective), whereas the currently quirked non-ECM ravens, especially the 2X can pack serious firepower for it's size. You can have 2x PPCs in Ravens, which aren't really feasible in Spiders, but a RVN-2X with 3xLL or 2xLL + 2xML would probably be more effective at the same ranges due to quirks.

The Raven also has arguably the best hero light in the game at the moment, Huginn, if you're interested in those. It's a very brawly mech and with the 3L and 2X would likely provide the greatest variety you can get from 3 variants of the same light chassis.

I'd recommend Ravens if you want ECM and generally longer range firepower, Firestarters if you want JJs and feel you might prefer brawling, or the Spider 5D if you want both and don't mind that the other variants you get are a worthless painful grind.

Edit: My personal favorite at the moment is the Locust 1E, which with it's current quirks I'd actually claim to be one of the most powerful lights in the game. However, it's very unforgiving to play, so it's very hard to recommend as a first light mech. Also, again, most of the other Locust variants are quite bad compared to it. However, Locusts are very cheap, so if you're confident in yourself and/or don't mind dying every time you make a mistake, it could be worth looking into, too. For example, 6.7 mil (half the price of a fully upgraded max engine 3L) fully upgraded: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0761f9e74b4f29d

Edited by Kyynele, 20 March 2015 - 03:24 AM.

[Chadamir Fitzkrieg]

I live and die by the Commando. COM-1B

Play this speed ball of death right and I've been able to get 4-5 kill games with over 400-500 damage. It's damn fun and the LL fires as fast as the mediums.

[Anunknownlurker]

Simply loving the Raven 3L with 2 ERLLs, ECM and extra zoom mod. Looking to fit the radar deprivation mod next (6million? You MUST be kidding!). He he, I thought I'd been clever when I sorted out that build!

Apart from loving the look of the Raven, I guess the long-range, elusive sniper suits my play style whereas the Ninja get in there and mix-it-up-light isn't really for me, I am still looking for a Bushwhacker replacement in this game.

So, I'd say,as a complete beginner, go for the mech that you like the look of, get it, try it, sell it if you hate it (it's not real money after all!) buy some more if you like it.

[YCSLiesmith]

you need to spend general xp on the radar dep mod as well. it's a huge resource sink

[Metus regem]

YCSLiesmith, on 20 March 2015 - 03:46 AM, said:

you need to spend general xp on the radar dep mod as well. it's a huge resource sink

But oh so worth it.

[zaibitsu]

I got the Raven 3L, I'm going to use with the 2 Large Lasers.

What should I do to it? endo steel, double heat sink? What engine should I get? Anything else?

[Rogue Jedi]

YCSLiesmith, on 20 March 2015 - 03:46 AM, said:

you need to spend general xp on the radar dep mod as well. it's a huge resource sink

Metus regem, on 20 March 2015 - 04:03 AM, said:

But oh so worth it.

depends on your playstyle, in a highly mobile Mech like most lights and the fast mediums it is quite easy to loose LRMs, if the Mech moves faster than 100KPH LRMs are not really a threat (unless you do something along the lines of stop moving while out in the open), I own a single Radar Deprivation and do not find it helps significantly, but again this is a highly experienced pilot specializing in Light Mechs talking.

Kyynele, on 20 March 2015 - 03:08 AM, said:

That's disinformation. 5D is the ECM-enabled Spider, you can have ECM in it. You can also mount 2 ERLLs in it rather easily: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...17301e52b02ccae

The reason why I'd say the Raven is better, is because the Raven is a 35 ton mech, and Spider is 30 tons. As you can see, the 5D can do 2xERLL with ECM and a JJ (which the Raven 3L can't get), but because it's 5 tons lighter, it can't do it using the max engine, or without sacrificing considerable amounts of armor, which you can do with the 3L: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...18a18a5d419f7fa (although you probably would want to drop the engine size for example to 280 and get extra heat sinks for increased sustained DPS)

Also, the other variants for Spiders besides the 5D are honestly rubbish (can be fun to play at times, but can't call them effective), whereas the currently quirked non-ECM ravens, especially the 2X can pack serious firepower for it's size. You can have 2x PPCs in Ravens, which aren't really feasible in Spiders, but a RVN-2X with 3xLL or 2xLL + 2xML would probably be more effective at the same ranges due to quirks.

with regards to the usefulness of the non ECM spiders

the spider has some of the best hitboxes in the game, on par with the Stalker, Firestarter and Stormcrow, meaning while you may not be able to survive much damage there speed combined with hitboxes mean they are hard to hit, and extremely hard to focus damage on a single component unless you stop moving within sight of an enemy (usualy a mistake in any Mech, especially a Light)

the SDR-5K with the 5K(c) build is one of my most effective Mechs, while many people cannot use it effectively it is far from a bad Mech and in the correct hands is lethal.

the 5V is the single most mobile Mech in the game, it does not have much in the way of firepower (I think the most DPS it can possibly have is with 2 MPL) but due to its 169KPH with speed tweak and 12 Jumpjets it is a great spotter/harrasser, literally nothing can catch you due to the speed and number of JumpJets. those JumpJets allow you to reach places with ease that many other Mechs struggle to reach at all.

the Spider is definitely a niche Mech, many people will struggle to use it effectively but is it not a bad Mech

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 20 March 2015 - 05:38 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

zaibitsu, on 20 March 2015 - 05:17 AM, said:

I got the Raven 3L, I'm going to use with the 2 Large Lasers.

What should I do to it? endo steel, double heat sink? What engine should I get? Anything else?

the vast majority of Mechs will benefit from Endo and DHS, and for a Raven you will almost definitely want both.

what are you planning on building a Spotter, support Mech or sniper?

for engine you will probably want an XL295 or XL 280 but that depends on what you want to do with it.

I suggest having a play here,
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7a9ee0361ac7ec4
and decide what looks good, that will let you play with potential builds without wasting any cbills

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 20 March 2015 - 05:24 AM.

[Kyynele]

Rogue Jedi, on 20 March 2015 - 05:18 AM, said:

Lots of stuff about Spiders

Accurate notions on the Spiders. The hitboxes are indeed Spider's clear strong point, and I didn't intend to play down the importance of having those.

And I, too have had actually success with the 5K. It's a fun ride. But both the 5K and 5V are extremely dependant on your team's performance, as they simply can't mount the firepower (or tools like ECM) to reliably carry a team to victory. That's what made the grind painful for me.

I also feel dirty if I take those to a group match. I feel it's like saying "you guys do all the work, I'll take the kills."

zaibitsu, on 20 March 2015 - 05:17 AM, said:

I got the Raven 3L, I'm going to use with the 2 Large Lasers.

What should I do to it? endo steel, double heat sink? What engine should I get? Anything else?

Like RJ suggested, get DHS and endo, and 280XL and 295XL are typical engines used in 3L builds, and good XL engines to own anyway.

Do note that you can't use either of those engines in the other Ravens, they have a lower engine cap of 275. 255XL is what I'd recommend getting for those (another engine size very much worth owning), and if you're desperately tight on budget, you could get that engine first and use it on the 3L as well.

Something like: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...537fffcdb30ff10

Go for a faster engine from the start if you can afford it, though.

[Metus regem]

Rogue Jedi, on 20 March 2015 - 05:18 AM, said:

depends on your playstyle, in a highly mobile Mech like most lights and the fast mediums it is quite easy to loose LRMs, if the Mech moves faster than 100KPH LRMs are not really a threat (unless you do something along the lines of stop moving while out in the open), I own a single Radar Deprivation and do not find it helps significantly, but again this is a highly experienced pilot specializing in Light Mechs talking.

In my slower Heavies and assaults I use the one Radar Deprivation I own, just swap it around as needed, in my Lights, I use their speed or ECM to my advantage, as for Mediums, and faster heavies, well hill hump, use the terrain to my advantage. As a pilot I try to be well rounded with each of the weight classes, so that when I do CW drops, I'm at home in any weight class.

[Mogney]

ravens, the three to get are: Huggin for brawling, 3l for erll sniping. And the 2x with 3xll is currently one if the strongest lights in the game.

[mailin]

Do not waste your money (c-bills) on Radar Derp for the 3L. It already has ECM. There are many more useful modules for this mech.

[Tim East]

Rogue Jedi, on 20 March 2015 - 05:18 AM, said:

depends on your playstyle, in a highly mobile Mech like most lights and the fast mediums it is quite easy to loose LRMs, if the Mech moves faster than 100KPH LRMs are not really a threat (unless you do something along the lines of stop moving while out in the open), I own a single Radar Deprivation and do not find it helps significantly, but again this is a highly experienced pilot specializing in Light Mechs talking.

While is it true that Radar Deprivation is less necessary for light mechs due to the sheer speed at which they travel making it easy to break LoS (and subsequently lock) fast enough that missiles still miss you, Radar Deprivation does allow you to utilize a highly situational stupid mech trick.

You see, enemy mechs can count as cover. This isn't anything too crazy in and of itself, but it does allow you to break locks from people that are looking at you IF you can interpose one of their friends between you and IF said friend is not also locked on to you either by facing you or with 360 retention. Which interestingly enough allows you to use enemies as LRM shields without actually having to stay in one place right next to them. It's almost as good as enemies just outright shooting each other with LRMs, except they don't track, so it works better on someone you've legged.

Not a super-useful trick, but very funny in my experience.

Edited by Tim East, 21 March 2015 - 10:28 AM.

[Metus regem]

Tim East, on 21 March 2015 - 10:28 AM, said:

While is it true that Radar Deprivation is less necessary for light mechs due to the sheer speed at which they travel making it easy to break LoS (and subsequently lock) fast enough that missiles still miss you, Radar Deprivation does allow you to utilize a highly situational stupid mech trick.

You see, enemy mechs can count as cover. This isn't anything too crazy in and of itself, but it does allow you to break locks from people that are looking at you IF you can interpose one of their friends between you and IF said friend is not also locked on to you either by facing you or with 360 retention. Which interestingly enough allows you to use enemies as LRM shields without actually having to stay in one place right next to them. It's almost as good as enemies just outright shooting each other with LRMs, except they don't track, so it works better on someone you've legged.

Not a super-useful trick, but very funny in my experience.

I must try this with my Locust 1E....

[JC Daxion]

I love ravens... They have lots of good builds, and can be brawling support mechs, or longer range.. it really is up to you. Ravens are one of my favorite mechs going back to the original mech commander, so it is nice to see they work very well in this game. I ran the 4X, 2X, and 3L to master. My favorite's are the 2X and 3L, the 4X i just have not been able to find something that i really love.. (though i have not played it since quirks)


I am just getting into commando's and spiders, and finding them a bit harder to play consistently. The commando's are fast, but locked to the ground as they don't have JJ's, but the SRM's can really put the smack down, and be a major harrassment mech while your buddies tear um up.. (you can add in another 300-500 damage in a good game too which is nothing to sneeze at)

spiders, i just have not had enough time in them other than to know they are highly mobile, and probably the best flyers in the game. I've seen people do some sick things in spiders, most memorable was a dual MPL spider that pulled of a match win for us, by taking down 4 mechs, including the final dual verse a direwolf.. and had around 1200 damage for the match. I am sure that was not the norm, but it just shows ya, it can be a beast in the right situations.

I'm still just getting speed tweak on most of them now, so my view has not seen either full potential, other than i can sense it I will say commandos are fun just because they can run under so many things that other mechs can.. though the spider is the king of never getting stuck due to it's Leaping spider abilities.

I would say as a first light, i am not sure i would recommend the commando though, even with experience i am finding them a hard mech to pilot, though they are fun. Another thing to note is they are fast, really fast, so frame rate can be a hindrance to them, so if your system is not up to snuff, i would defiantly not recommend a locust, or commando, the 35 ton lights, are a better mech to run a bit slower, as is the Cicada, which plays like a heavily armored light, and tons of fun.

Edited by JC Daxion, 21 March 2015 - 03:36 PM.

[SethAbercromby]

Locusts will make a very difficult first expression as they can die very easily because of their low armor values and lack Jump Jets, but they have a very cool gimmick in that they accalerate to max speeds near instantly. You can do a full stop at max speed into reverse in less than a second. It's insane.

If you can handle it well, the low profile combined with extremely high speeds and accaleration can make the Locust one hell of a 'Mech. I'm actually using it to learn the lights, but it's certainly not what I'd reccomend as a beginner's chassis.

[InspectorG]

YCSLiesmith, on 19 March 2015 - 02:06 PM, said:

kit fox is hard to recommend due to its ridiculous hitbox and low speed.

Its kinda the clan default recommendation though. Better described as a wannabe medium without the armor/HP.
I can pull some decent numbers...as an Assault escort. No runnin-and-gunnin there.

Arctic Cheeter will be the light if it lives up to the hype. Has all the requirements.

[Trolzylulzy]

A Light Pilots Guide to Light Piloting:

Firestarter: Generally seen as the best Light Mech in the game. I hate it, but I know that it's f!@#ing dangerous to play with. Always a good first choice since it gives you a solid hero, nice build variety, and amazing hitboxes. Given all of their good, and with very limited bad, I see them as "easy mode" lights, and boring as hell to play.

Jenner: My personal favorite. Hard to learn since their hitboxes are unique. Again, solid hero, but less room for build variety between chassis (even though I own all of them and have different builds between them). Probably one of the most rewarding to learn after the Locust.

Raven: Best support light in the game (fot the IS that is) because it can bring ECM with some heavy firepower. Also has a murderific Hero, and even it's s#!t variants have amazing quirks.

Spider: I hate them. I don't play them. I have mostly bad things to say about them. Their only redeeming quality is that they get big engines and one gets ECM. Other than that, they are horrible (Yes, I am biased. No, I don't care. Yes, I want you to hate them too).

Commando: Weak, fragile, little support value, but fast as **** and with decent hitboxes. Fun to play, but generally not worth it unless you're going for a 25 ton ECM mech.

Locust: Like a commando, except more fragile and faster all around. They will die if a mech so much as looks at them funny, but when played right, they will annihilate enemy teams. Requires a lot of teamwork to use to it's fullest. The single most fun mech to play as, provided you don't get LRM'd to death.

Panther: Good support mechs that can also bring some heavy firepower. Really slow for an IS light, but they have really good hitboxes, so it's all right. You can only get them from the Resistance pack, so that's $30 for a hero, and two others.

Kit Fox: Basically a fast, but light, medium mech. Good support mech with the option of building for massive (clan) damage. Good choice.

Adder: From what I've seen (I don't own one), they're good snipers, can mureder with UAC's, and can Streak Boat. All in all, a solid choice.

Mist Lynx: No.

So basically, start with Firestarters, get the hang of it, and transition to either Kit Foxes if you want to get more into clans, or Jenners if you want to have a good time learning a really fun mech. After that, have fun learning Locusts. It's a very steep learning curve.

[EX S]

I guess mileage varies. The Locust was my first light mech (I actually had 2 Kit Foxes before it, but it's more of a psuedo medium.), and the first mech I ever elited. It really only took a weekend of playing to get the hang of it, thanks to the people who responded to my thread and IraqiWalker's Underrated Locust thread. Definitely the most fun light to play, and it's not too much of a pain to outfit if you're willing to grind without DHS and buy only 1 XL190 engine.
Then again, I have a lot of patience so it might not be for everyone.

Still, as long as you remember the 5Ds and pick your fights carefully the Locust isn't nearly as daunting to use as it sounds on paper.