62 replies to this topic

[50 50]

Room for a bunch of additional pilot skills as well.
Something for:
Jump Jets?
ECM?
BAP?
Heatsinks?
TAG?
Targeting Computers?
Command Consoles?
I think where possible, steer away from anything that affects mech or weapon performance and expand the options to other aspects of the game and to equipment which currently lacks corresponding skills.

[Night Thastus]

Oh my god its so good!
It kinda makes me dissapointed (this and a billion other things) about what MWO could have been.
Amazing work man.

I really like how the skill tree is based on the 'Mech (and class) you're looking at. It's not generic. Logically, the Highlander should have buffs to stuff that applies to death from above. This is honestly how the quirk system should have been handled, IMO. Instead of quirks that just magically apply to your mech, you need to earn them, and when you do, they prove to be useful, but not OP.

[HARDKOR]

I pledge to buy resistance 2 if they do this.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Git R Done!

[Alex Gorsky]

Exellent sug! I will add, maybe need third tree for improvement scout role...is sensors tree. But it would require alteration or removal of some modules.

[MechWarrior849305]

Yes, make ECM skill. Like tripple powered ECM, which can be disrupted with only 3 or more standart ones, can not be disrupted with PPC/ER PPC and UAV and has tripple working distance.
Make heatsinks skill, that makes heatsinks be always 1-crit.slot and 10x effective than those of doubles we have now.
Make JJ skill, that makes JJ fuel to be infinite and allows mechs to fly.
And add any other useful skills - we will be thankful.

[IraqiWalker]

AUSwarrior24, on 26 March 2015 - 06:40 AM, said:

OP

Holy Plasma Rifles, Batman!

That is a pretty good mock up, and I like it. Aside from how well you shopped it, the concept is pretty solid, and I would absolutely not object to it being in the game.

[Mirkk Defwode]

AUSwarrior24, on 26 March 2015 - 06:40 AM, said:

...

I love the idea and I love the examples.

Though I wouldn't explicit weapon improvements, ala the quirks, unless the user gets to select which weapon they'd like to fill those slots. Having it be preset is too much like the quirk system. Though that could replace the quirk system almost entirely allowing the user to determine their own quirks per-se with generalizations for the core weapon groups.

What I'd lean toward for this is being able to implement your own quirks and adding a 3rd "intelligence" Tree, that improves your sensor behaviors. So you could have a more defined role warfare setup. Make it be passive improvements to sensors. Some of these would even mitigate Modules that people can have equipped (You know, for that balance thing...)

In intelligence I'd do
Data Gathering Time Decrease
Counter-Measures (slows down data gathering for the uses mech, stacks with ECM)
Decreased Weapon Lock-On Times (impacts LRMs and SSRMs. guided weaponry)
Hard Lock (increases the amount of time a target remains locked on after losing LoS, halves the ability of the null-sig module)

More stuff along those lines. Don't have time to fully draft out a 3rd branch.

[Mark of Caine]

Awesome mock up of a new Skill tree. Love it.

What I would love to see and add to the discussion though is to deep-six the current module and quirk system, and make it a point-buy system such that 1 point = 1% for quirks, and X amount of GXP and CBills unlocks a "module" component for that lone variant granting current module bonuses. Granted, said GXP and Cbills cost would need to be lowered drastically from current prices, but a player could tailor a variant for their specific need/role.

As for quirks, you could then have 2 categories: General and Specific. General would mean like Energy Range or Ballistic Cooldown, and Specific would imply ER PPC Range or AC5 Cooldown. General quirks could be bought for 1 point = 1% with a [20]% cap, for example, and specific quirks could be purchased for 1 point = 2% and capped at say [10]%, again as an example (subject to modification naturally). Same point pool, but the player chooses to generalize their build, go more specific, or a mix of both.

Obviously, the amount of points offered would need to be carefully monitored so that certain quirk combinations would not overpower the game in one direction, and a lot of tweaking would need to be done in the future to strive at a more balanced game, but this is really what I would love to see. IIRC, I believe Rifts had a system quite similar to my proposal that works out quite well, offering a vast variety of possible class builds tailored to the player's preferences.

Edit: Clarified General and Specific categories.

Edited by Caine2112, 12 May 2015 - 10:52 AM.

[Lily from animove]

I do not realyl like this, because you have to choose specific stuff, while the entire MWO is a constantly changing environment, and by this, what you skilled toda,y may be good, but tomorrow be totally crap.

MWO is already very competitve, and then being at a skill disadvantage is even more bad.

Honestly MWO needs an entire new "skillsystem" actually we do not even need pilot skill,s because we already are seperated into our skills or aim accuracy, tactics, situational awareness and reaction time. So true pilot skills are not needed.

However the emch skill systems should exist, but they should work differently. I have a quite simple system in min which fits the lore quite well, yet i never had time to write it down.

But the basic idea is:

The more oyu use a mech, the more you get "used to it" and the more you lern its own habits (since even mass produced products have their own)
And this helps the pilot and the techs to adjust Specific values of the mech more to the pilots needs.

Like lets say:

once you did 10.000 damage with lasers in mech X. you coul observe the emchs specific inaccuracy. And together with the techs yo can optimise those irregularities. That could resemble most of the current skills we have. Further together with the technicians you invent smaller changes, like you cna tune your car or motorbike. Which then changes some mechs characteristics.

and then you can adjust specific wepaons. like beamduration of lasers can be adjusted between +10% until -10% Yet this adjustment on the other side will also mean a linear change of +10% until -10% heat. Because you may have adjusted the weapon controls software to overlaod the capacitors or boost more energy in the laser allowing it to burn the same damage in less time, yet it would make the usage of the wepaon less heat efficient. Or you do i the other way around. More heat efficient, yet longer beam duration.

And then this adjustment can come in steps o tiers:

Tier1:

10k damage with lasers unlocks -+5% adjustment.
10k -+7%
50k -+8%
100k -+9%
1 million -+10%

You can for the last tier choose an extremely high amount, giving a small incentive to a "mech loyal" player stickign with a chassis. This 1% is hardly truly performance affecting, while the most important possibilities of adjustments are unlockable quite early.

And by this way, this skill, is simulaeted by the experience a pilot has in a specific mech with specific wepaons. And this makes you have to use the mech and the wepaons itself to unlock those special features.

But then any of those advanced cuatmisations will be with an up and downside. While basic adjustements are purely "optimisations"

[Haakon Magnusson]

Yes, skill choices! not the current cut'n'paste "skill path"

Also, much approve, pilot names.. preferably multiple so I can actually put some playtime on my clan mechs as well.

[TheArisen]

AUSwarrior24, on 26 March 2015 - 06:40 AM, said:

So I was bored one night and fired up Photoshop. Everyone has their own idea of how they'd like this sort of thing set up, but this is just my very rough imagining:



The way I see it, the purpose of the skill tree is two fold. Firstly, to provide reasoning and a reward for players to play or 'grind' 'Mechs, The second is to add incentive for players to purchase more 'Mechs in a chassis line, a perfectly viable and fair marketing strategy. Most F2P games have something like this though variants are somewhat unique to MW:O. Either way, it's a fair system.

However, the problem with MW:O's current implementation is that it's very bare bones. While it provides rewards for players to grind 'Mechs, and also reasoning for players to purchase three different variants, it is flawed for several reasons.

- It is currently seen as a chore, just another necessity, which must be overcome before a chassis can be as competitive as possible. Basically; it's not really fun or interesting.

- It leads to balancing problems as the same tree is used for each 'Mech. Because of this, certain 'Mechs get far more benefit than others while certain 'Mechs become far too effective in some areas than others. For example, Speed Tweak allows a Timber Wolf or Stormcrow to reach speeds that completely outclass other mediums and heavies.

- Also, it's not a tree. There are no branches. The tree is a lie.

So the solution is to make it more interesting, give it more depth and tailor it somewhat for each 'Mech while keeping the purpose of adding incentive to buy multiple 'Mechs and grind them. This idea isn't really unique and it's been discussed a lot, and I'm sure there's probably better ways to implement it, but this is just my imagining.

- The three 'tiers' are kept (albeit renamed) but are divided into 'Piloting' and 'Gunnery'. In effect this is simply for easier categorization and understanding, but it also links with BattleTech's pilot rules for those of us that want to see a bit more BattleTech in MW:O.

- Instead of the player being required to unlock every single 'efficiency' to move to each tier, the player has a 'limit'. The idea being that the player gets to pick from a pool of efficiencies from each tier up to a limit. So there might be 15 basic/green efficiencies available, but the player can only pick 8. Once he unlocks 8 from basic/green, the basic/green tree locks and they have access to the next tier. This serves to make skill unlocking more interesting, and adds more personal choice to where a pilot might want to specialise or be more effective.

- Like a proper tree, certain skills might have pre-requisite skills. This could mean that final skills that give high bonuses would require dedication through a certain area, and would reward specialising. Just more diversity. Certain skills would also not stack; for example, 'Assault Charge II's' top speed bonus would replace 'Assault Charge I's'.

- Skills could also be 'de-learned' for half the XP if the player wanted to change their skill set, adding an extra layer of customization.

- The idea would be that each chassis has its own tree, and hence could be tailored for each 'Mech to add extra diversity and also a balancing method.

The biggest area of work IMO would be in design and balance for each 'Mech, though this system could still work if there was simply a tree for each weight class and then added to in the future. Perhaps 'Mechs would only have unique Veteran and Elite skills.

Such an idea would require a massive rework of the current system and I certainly don't think something like this could, or even necessarily should, be undertaken, especially with CW Phase III and Solaris on the horizon. But I just feel that out of everything in MW:O, the skill system is most neglected and I don't think that the 'pilot' element of MechWarrior is really represented at all.

If you read through all of that, congratulations and thanks for taking the time.

Pgi.... Pleassssse do this, that is all.

Lily from animove, on 13 May 2015 - 01:34 AM, said:

I do not realyl like this, because you have to choose specific stuff, while the entire MWO is a constantly changing environment, and by this, what you skilled toda,y may be good, but tomorrow be totally crap.

MWO is already very competitve, and then being at a skill disadvantage is even more bad.

Honestly MWO needs an entire new "skillsystem" actually we do not even need pilot skill,s because we already are seperated into our skills or aim accuracy, tactics, situational awareness and reaction time. So true pilot skills are not needed.

However the emch skill systems should exist, but they should work differently. I have a quite simple system in min which fits the lore quite well, yet i never had time to write it down.

But the basic idea is:

The more oyu use a mech, the more you get "used to it" and the more you lern its own habits (since even mass produced products have their own)
And this helps the pilot and the techs to adjust Specific values of the mech more to the pilots needs.

Like lets say:

once you did 10.000 damage with lasers in mech X. you coul observe the emchs specific inaccuracy. And together with the techs yo can optimise those irregularities. That could resemble most of the current skills we have. Further together with the technicians you invent smaller changes, like you cna tune your car or motorbike. Which then changes some mechs characteristics.

and then you can adjust specific wepaons. like beamduration of lasers can be adjusted between +10% until -10% Yet this adjustment on the other side will also mean a linear change of +10% until -10% heat. Because you may have adjusted the weapon controls software to overlaod the capacitors or boost more energy in the laser allowing it to burn the same damage in less time, yet it would make the usage of the wepaon less heat efficient. Or you do i the other way around. More heat efficient, yet longer beam duration.

And then this adjustment can come in steps o tiers:

Tier1:

10k damage with lasers unlocks -+5% adjustment.
10k -+7%
50k -+8%
100k -+9%
1 million -+10%

You can for the last tier choose an extremely high amount, giving a small incentive to a "mech loyal" player stickign with a chassis. This 1% is hardly truly performance affecting, while the most important possibilities of adjustments are unlockable quite early.

And by this way, this skill, is simulaeted by the experience a pilot has in a specific mech with specific wepaons. And this makes you have to use the mech and the wepaons itself to unlock those special features.

But then any of those advanced cuatmisations will be with an up and downside. While basic adjustements are purely "optimisations"

What if you could "retrain"(reset) your pilot? That way you're never obsolete.

[aniviron]

Pilot trees have been in desperate need of an overhaul for years now. They were "placeholder" in beta, and just never got changed. It's time to fix them.

[ToxinTractor]

This is a good idea! though my question is, would each chasis have some unique skill tree then? (Like hunchbacks be different from other mediums? Would the cicada have bonus' that boost its scouting role or its offensive role and stuff like that?

[Johnny Z]

Ok I take my previous reply back. If the current skill tree was devided up into the mock up sill tree than that would be cool.

[Greyhart]

this is the best mock up I have seen for skill trees.

It is needed.

We can only hope that there is a big plan by PGI to do Mech & Pilot skills right and dovetail them with information warfare.

[TheArisen]

For sure Grey, it'd really improve the game if we could actually make our pilots instead of a generalized progression.

[Greyhart]

I find I do play more when there is a tournament on. I can't help but realise that part of it is getting the wins to increase on the web page as it is something to aim for.

At the moment I feel unless your goal is to unlock all pilot skills and all mechs there is no drive to play the game.

I can see levelling up a pilot with choices and levelling up a mech with choices as a hook for me and other players

Would also give a reason to buy (for the monies) extra pilots and extra copies of the same Mech variant.

[GI Journalist]

This skill tree idea would be the superior method to incorporate quirks and give me reasons to purchase multiple mechs to design different pilots with different specializations. Lots of potential here.

[Hawk819]

Dingo Red, on 26 March 2015 - 06:40 AM, said:

So I was bored one night and fired up Photoshop. Everyone has their own idea of how they'd like this sort of thing set up, but this is just my very rough imagining:



The way I see it, the purpose of the skill tree is two fold. Firstly, to provide reasoning and a reward for players to play or 'grind' 'Mechs, The second is to add incentive for players to purchase more 'Mechs in a chassis line, a perfectly viable and fair marketing strategy. Most F2P games have something like this though variants are somewhat unique to MW:O. Either way, it's a fair system.

However, the problem with MW:O's current implementation is that it's very bare bones. While it provides rewards for players to grind 'Mechs, and also reasoning for players to purchase three different variants, it is flawed for several reasons.

- It is currently seen as a chore, just another necessity, which must be overcome before a chassis can be as competitive as possible. Basically; it's not really fun or interesting.

- It leads to balancing problems as the same tree is used for each 'Mech. Because of this, certain 'Mechs get far more benefit than others while certain 'Mechs become far too effective in some areas than others. For example, Speed Tweak allows a Timber Wolf or Stormcrow to reach speeds that completely outclass other mediums and heavies.

- Also, it's not a tree. There are no branches. The tree is a lie.

So the solution is to make it more interesting, give it more depth and tailor it somewhat for each 'Mech while keeping the purpose of adding incentive to buy multiple 'Mechs and grind them. This idea isn't really unique and it's been discussed a lot, and I'm sure there's probably better ways to implement it, but this is just my imagining.

- The three 'tiers' are kept (albeit renamed) but are divided into 'Piloting' and 'Gunnery'. In effect this is simply for easier categorization and understanding, but it also links with BattleTech's pilot rules for those of us that want to see a bit more BattleTech in MW:O.

- Instead of the player being required to unlock every single 'efficiency' to move to each tier, the player has a 'limit'. The idea being that the player gets to pick from a pool of efficiencies from each tier up to a limit. So there might be 15 basic/green efficiencies available, but the player can only pick 8. Once he unlocks 8 from basic/green, the basic/green tree locks and they have access to the next tier. This serves to make skill unlocking more interesting, and adds more personal choice to where a pilot might want to specialise or be more effective.

- Like a proper tree, certain skills might have pre-requisite skills. This could mean that final skills that give high bonuses would require dedication through a certain area, and would reward specialising. Just more diversity. Certain skills would also not stack; for example, 'Assault Charge II's' top speed bonus would replace 'Assault Charge I's'.

- Skills could also be 'de-learned' for half the XP if the player wanted to change their skill set, adding an extra layer of customization.

- The idea would be that each chassis has its own tree, and hence could be tailored for each 'Mech to add extra diversity and also a balancing method.

The biggest area of work IMO would be in design and balance for each 'Mech, though this system could still work if there was simply a tree for each weight class and then added to in the future. Perhaps 'Mechs would only have unique Veteran and Elite skills.

Such an idea would require a massive rework of the current system and I certainly don't think something like this could, or even necessarily should, be undertaken, especially with CW Phase III and Solaris on the horizon. But I just feel that out of everything in MW:O, the skill system is most neglected and I don't think that the 'pilot' element of MechWarrior is really represented at all.

If you read through all of that, congratulations and thanks for taking the time.

Total Sweetness in my opinion. If anything, I'd like to see this used in its current format.