40 replies to this topic

[Hronis1974]

Hi mates ,

I am Hronis1974 (even thats my ingame name) , and i would like to offer a few small tips that came out of my what lil experience i have gain by playing CW for a month now . Plz dont consider this as an "arrogance" , nor like a "know all " attitude . Its just , that while i am dead and watching other ppl playing , i ve noticed a few things like, lots of misses while using balistics or PPc's or mjissuses of certain mechs . Thus i am just offering this "aiming" technic which is easy to handle , even after consuming lots of beers..(lol....trust me , i know ) , and some advices on other subjects . Its up to you if you would find em usuefull or not .
So , here is the thing....

a) no matter what build you have (balistic or PPc's heavy) , always add a single (at least one , or more ) large laser , on a safe location on your mech (lets say somewhere in your torsos) , preferably on a high position .
Put that laser on group one and on its own , and use it the same way a sniper uses the laser on his rifle , in order to mark his target . When the laser starts to burn and its "painting" your target (and before it burns out) , click your other mouse button to release your projectiles (balistics or PPC's). Your hit rate will exceed 70% at ranges up to 400 meters , no matter if your target is moving or not .

b ) Conserning stalkers...

...yes , they are good mechs , but not "excellent" mechs . They have 2 , major issues . I ll offer a solution for each one , which is not great , but it helped me alot , in order to support the teams i droped with .
1) Low speed (even with max engine and speed tweak , stalker cannot exceed 65 kph forward and far less backward). ....thus , a Stalker cannot play "peekaboo" with a Stormcrow behind corners . Since thats the case , just add 5 LL's on it , devide them into 2 groups (3LL'S on mouse 1 , 2 LL's on mouse 2) and make em both firing in chain fire , while your standing your ground (dont back off into the corner again unless you have no other choice ) . By firing both groups in chain fire , first LL's burn time , overlapsed by the next one , and the next , and the next , and the next , till the first fired LL is ready to fire again , before the last ones burn out expires...creating a full continoum of firing for about 3 full (3X5 LL) cicles , in less than 10 secs....thats alot of dmg before you even overheat .
2)Weak arms...yup , thats Stalkers most redicoulus weakness . Against that , what i am proposing , its almost as redicoulus , yet effective tactic . ....
Dont "torso twist" at all....maybe Stalker its the only mech one can say that . Instead , move almost all your mechs armor from the back to your front (leaving just lets say , 3-4 points in your back) and try to atract all the dmg to your center torso (which is the strongest). If a mech gets behind you , your dead anyway , no matter if you have 3-4 points or 30 points , its all the same. My way , you could actualy have a chance to kill your opponent before he gets your back .

c) Conserning Thunderbolts...

I personaly never used that mech , but seriously now guys , 7 MPL'S build its not working in CW. Actualy , what ever works in solo que , almost never works in CW.
I understand that TDR is getting bonuses on PL's , but even with those , 350 meters range is not great . And all this time , you guys are waiting behind a corner for the claners to get close to you in order to use your weaponry ,leaving the rest of ppl strangling alone . But here is the problem . When they do that , its when our front lines are already colapsed , and they are coming to you in a zerg/swarm manner ,and in that case , your 7 MP'S can do ...plain and simple...jack. Instead....use those bonuses on LP'S , in order to support your team at the early stages of the battle. LPL'S are formitable weapons , and if i am not very wrong , they can achive ranges up to 475 meters on a TDR(more than a normal LL).So plz use at least 2 of em with your builds.


Thats all the things i would like to cover in this post . Plz be adviced that English is not my native language , and i am translating Greeks in to them .Thus , my sayings dont always come out the way i ment em to be so , so again if you find my saying insulting on anyway , plz ask me to clarify .


Thnx for your attention mates

Edited by Hronis1974, 29 March 2015 - 05:09 AM.

[Nazar24]

Hronis1974, on 29 March 2015 - 05:07 AM, said:

b ) Conserning stalkers...

[...] 5 LL's on it , devide them into 2 groups (3LL'S on mouse 1 , 2 LL's on mouse 2) and make em both firing in chain fire , while your standing your ground (dont back off into the corner again unless you have no other choice ) . By firing both groups in chain fire , first LL's burn time , overlapsed by the next one , and the next , and the next , and the next , till the first fired LL is ready to fire again , before the last ones burn out expires...creating a full continoum of firing for about 3 full (3X5 LL) cicles , in less than 10 secs....thats alot of dmg before you even overheat [...]
[...] Dont "torso twist" at all [...]

Boom! Torso's gone! Boom! headshot!
with them laservomit clans doing redonkulous alphas you want to torso twist, always.
If you don't , your effective armor is 18 points.
Chainfiring is only an option when your heat is too high and you need to get every possible shot before going down while preserving your mech .
Never chainfire in a mexican standoff, run hot or die.

Hronis1974, on 29 March 2015 - 05:07 AM, said:

Conserning Thunderbolts...

I personaly never used that mech , but seriously now guys , 7 MPL'S build its not working in CW.

Try it, you will be surprised. It is one of the best mech in the "is" and a solid opener.

Edited by Nazar24, 29 March 2015 - 06:49 AM.

[-Vompo-]

I can't say that I completely agree with any of these points but no matter. It's good to see even newer CW players sharing ideas.

I won't judge your aiming aid laser. If it works for you then that is good.

About stalkers
I like my stalkers and from my experience torso twisting helps your survival a great deal. You might lose an ear if you are unlucky but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to spread damage all over your mech including your ears.
One thing players need to watch with stalkers is their heat. Almost all stalker builds run hot and especially in attack when team is pushing in you don't want to overheat blocking your team and standing still in front of enemy guns.

About thunderbolts
well not about thunderbolts... I don't play thunderbolts. The thing in this topic that I disagreed with is the claim that medium pulse laser are not good in cw. Mplas is one of the most effective close range brawling weapons and IS mechs excel against clanners at close range. Sure if the whole team decides to stay back and trade fire long range the lone brawler will be useless. In the end it all comes down to player preference. I love my mplas builds and so far they've worked very well in cw.

Just my own observations... Keep on doing what you're doing as long as it works and even if it doesn't as long as you're having fun.

[sycocys]

Putting extremely low back armor on, especially as a new player that doesn't know the maps, your team (so they know to cover your rear armor with prejudice), or the tactics in CW very well is a very bad plan.

And the 7 MPL TDR is a great build for CW, IF - IF you don't play the pop out and sniper/take alpha shots from clanners game. If you and your team are of the mind to push on them into a proper brawl, 7 MPL is devastating dps that takes a long time to overheat.

Especially if you are a pug, especially one in FRR, the best suggestions I have for you are -

You are not a sniper, bring brawlers with good heat efficiency/dps.
Expect to get locks for your own lrms, and don't boat em.
Bring min 1 ecm if you aren't dropping with a team.
Push WITH the team not matter what your build is.

[Klappspaten]

Brawling is always great when going against clanners, they tend to overheat after a few seconds and then you got them with their pants down.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

Hail Hronis,
Had a few matches with you vikingbro.
Good tips.

Just want to share some observations I have regarding Stalkers and Thunderbolts, 2 key mechs vs the clan onslaught.

Stalkers will get hit a lot. They are big and sluggish. However, it is common (if you are good enough with the Stalker) to survive 2 or even 3 waves, because they can lose one side and still have strong fighting ability.
Its good to wiggle when hit to spread the damage between left, right and center torso.

7MPL Thunderbolts are quite good value for the tonnage. I usually take them after I run out of Stalkers.
That said, I prefer them as 2nd or 3rd mech instead of first, as they are better matched vs Stormcrows than Timberwolves.

[Mandrakerootes]

Im gonna be frank, I completly disagree with allmost everything you say.

First of, Stalkers and Thunderbolts are the main workhorse for the IS right now, the 9S,9SE and 5SS are all very good in their respective niche. The Stalker-4N is the best Inner Sphere Mech right now if you ask me. If I look at our faction drops, 60% have atleast one 4N in their deck.

I can reiterate that the 5SS is very good, you just need to know when to drop it, dont drop it first for example.

On the gameplay part, face time is a thing that needs to be minimized, that you propose not to peek with the stalker signals to me that you didnt understand the chassis or variant for that matter at all. the high weapon mounts are perfect for hill peeking and the narrow arms and slender body allow you to peek corners very easy. just fire three lasers on the side and go back into cover. on top of that the best build involves 6 LLs and not 5. not rolling damage is not a good idea on any mech, and especially on the stalker since, you have a STD and can actually lose a side torso. on top of all that, the arms are not a weakness of the stalker at all, I rarely get my arm shot out before my torso, simlpy because you cant shield your side effective.
If you lose an arm before the torso thats even better.

I would refer you to the FRRHUB Teamspeak
frrhub.tk:9725 pw: Dragon
Hang out,discuss tactics. strategy,gameplay and builds with other fellow FRR players, and also drop with them in an open group.

This is not to bash you, but its better if you know that you have the wrong idea. Its good that you think about the problems you face in the game and try to come up with solutions, this is an important skill. Coming up with a solution needs iteration and experience though.

Edited by Mandrakerootes, 29 March 2015 - 11:52 AM.

[sycocys]

Stalker 4N - 6LL is a monster to be reckoned with. I generally get the job of controlling attack lanes with mine which usually puts me directly in the sights of anyone that's smart enough to shoot back at me. Almost always score 7-800+ damage before losing one set of lasers and set up a lot of kills in the process.

Runs hot, but tears through torso armor like nobodies business, leaving the TDR's some great targets to clean up. It's best role in my opinion is the lane control and keeping the enemy pushed down and going where you want them to go. That's the benefit of running with a team, you start to adopt a particular role that you can specialize in and they can count on you to do.

And having the 5ss or 9se there with that sustained burst dps to finish off targets, wonderful stuff that is. LL are nice to set up kills, but against Clans you really need mechs that can engage in a brawl while other guys hold them down to take advantage of both IS strengths and Clan weaknesses.

I've tried with all sorts of decks, and the 4N, Wubs and an ecm thus far have proven to be by far the most effective route to go with the front line guys going 3 wubs and a quickdraw, huggin, 3m (last one just depends on the guy and what's needed to round things out).

Hronis1974, on 29 March 2015 - 05:07 AM, said:

350 meters range is not great . And all this time , you guys are waiting behind a corner for the claners to get close to you in order to use your weaponry ,leaving the rest of ppl strangling alone .

If I had to pick up a couple things to point out as likely problems its these. You shouldn't be straggling behind or alone, you should be with your team performing the strategy together on these maps, they are not large enough nor do they have any reason built in to them (other than possible Grim Portico) for the team to be split, or for there to be snipers or lrms trying to be solo players at long range.

Also 300 meters is the best place to be to force clan mechs into overheating or severely limiting their dps. That's what makes the 5ss so deadly, it can push on them with plenty of armor and sustain its attack much longer than any of the clan mechs.

Even if you aren't running the 'meta' builds though your effective range is with your team doing what your team's strategy and focus is. If you stray off or hold back from that it doesn't matter if you are a 1500 meter sniper because your team is not going to be relying on the fire of one person over the collective damage of the group.

Rolling regular PPC's? Your most effective range is going to be 100-400m range with your team bouncing from ecm to ecm trying to interrupt them all.
LRM's are insanely more effective at 2-300m with LOS so you not only guarantee locks, but they come so fast there's no chance for avoidance.
Guass has crazy range, but look at its damage effective range, far more deadly up close.

Also you simply can't force clanners to overheat if you fight at their preferred range, and even if they do what do you gain by it except losing them off the radar for a few seconds?

I do agree that there simply needs to be more variety of mechs and loadouts for CW but unfortunately the quirk system instead of properly tuning pretty much limited that to pug v pug drops when you are lucky enough to get those.

Some of these things should have been picked up in standard drops, but unfortunately up until now very few people are willing to work as a team there to get a better understanding of the game. Rather most treat it like any other fps and really don't improve there game beyond a certain point, then when they jump into this game's equivalent of a raid the adjustment immediately feels way out of reach.

[Sjorpha]

Both stalkers (Misery and 4N) and thunderbolts are extremely good mechs considering their quirks, the current meta and how they fit into dropdecks, by IS standards. And 250-300m is pretty much the sweet spot for IS to pressure clans into overheating.

It's nice to try and give tips, thanks for that. My tip to you is to play in some organised group drops and see how these mechs perform when in coordinated pushes.

[Hronis1974]

hi again mates ,

i see you got my points wrong , and thats probably my fault , so plz lemmie clarify a few things .

For first , i never said that stalkers or thunders are bad mechs , i said that certain builds and uses of these particular mechs are wrong , and ofc thats only my opinion . Let me explain then....

a)whats the point of keeping a big sluggish mech like the stalker in the fight , while both its torsos and 80% of its weapons are gone? how effective can a stalker with a single LL left on its center torso be?....i can do that with a locust with 170kph instead of 65 kph , and be far more effective. Its the "zombie" mentality that i dont agree with i quess .
And yes , i bought the stalker boundle , mastered its skills , experimented with it alot (i actualy was amongst the firsts to use that mech in CW with 5 LL build) , but i was totaly unsatisfied with its performance and after a couple of weeks , i just sold all 4 of em for c-bills and just bought back the 4 cicada variants i used to have before . Why? cuz the stalker is...

1) too big to hide anywhere .
2)too big to go unoticed ( i used to get picked from distances up to 1200 metter from clan er LL's and PPc's).With only 65 kph of speed, i usualy got yellow-ish before i even reach the gates .
3)way too vanurable to LRM's cuz its just a big torso especialy on the upper side where its as flat and big , as a town square , or an aircraft carrier .Without having any shoulders at all to spread the dmg , every single missile always hit something important .
4)way too slow to escape or even to get behind cover in time . If i would got in the open by my mistake , or because the front lines have colapsed , it was all over .
5) no exceptional fire power . 5 LL's its the only thing it could handle. I tried 6 LL's on the N variant , but it got overheat way too much , even on Boreal . I also tried every possible energy and balistic combination on misery . What i noticed was that the first weapon to go , was always the balistic . As for sniping , well as i said....too big to go unoticed and so , the return fire that i was reciving was alot more than i could dish -out.
Maybe what this fellow said above is true , maybe i never understood the chassis .Maybe i just wrongly tried to "fit" the mech into my tactics , while instead i should have picked a better mech that could actualy performed the way i wanted it . At the bottom line , i was just disapointed to see that i was doing better with just 4 cicadas on the dropdeck , rather than 2 stalkers and 2 cicadas .Maybe i was expecting too much from a 85tons mech, or maybe just , i am not a patient player.Now i am experimenting with cataphracts , and so far i am not thrilled about em either .
On the other hand , i am impressed with the quickdraw K variant ,despite the fact that its not even basic-ed yet .So yeah , maybe i ve chosen the wrong mech in the first place .
But ashide my personal feelings about the stalker , what i said before holds alot of truth .Torso twisting the stalker , its the fastest way to lose your weapons . So unless you like to run around with a single LL like a headless chicken in a zombie mode , thats the last thing you should do . 56 points of armor on the arms its nothing great , its just equal to a decent alpha strike from a timber , plain and simple and be sure , thats exactly where it will try to hit you.

b)why add 6 LL's on a chassis that can handle only 4 or 5 max ?...isnt it better to have less weaps and fire more , than having more weaps and fire less or not at all cuz of the constant overheating?...or even holding back just to avoid exactly that?
c)about headshots?...well i never got headshoted on a stalker..i quess cuz its cockpit its high above its torso.The real danger comes from below , that point between its torso and its legs .The same point that all the locusts/firestarters/spiders always exploid in solo que .

About thunders...

d)i did 6 MPL'S on my cicada 2A , so i know that they are good at close ranges , but here is the thing . The cicada runs with 124 kph at least and so it is able to perform cavalry tactics , like running and shooting and close any range with it when ever you feel like it.Can a thunderbolt do that ?.From a mech as big as a thunderbolt , one should expect more than this .Besides , what i said above , came from my experience on spectating others and not by me playing it . And so far , i havent seen anyone performing decently with a 7MPL thunderbolt .They usualy stay behind waiting for others to make a break through and when this wont happen and the team gets overun , they are unable to kill a single dmged nova with sml's and some mg's.If they had some weaps with some range in the first place , they would have helped to actualy make that break through at the early stages of the battle , where it would be more important .And actualy , i did saw such builds and they were wonderfull from every aspect , from keeping enemies heads down, to tear timbers to pieces .And lets face it guys , 42 dmg at 350 metters its not exactly great . I have 3 LL and ac/10 on my phracts and do 37 dmg (just 5 points lower) at 450 meters without any modules.What i am saying is that , being "fun" and being "practical" are 2 different things . Again , thats only my opinion , so it doesnt have to be the right one . If you feel that 7MPL build is good for you , then use it , thats fine by me . Just dont do it on my expence.

Conserning TS server , nations , organized teams and all that jazz...

Well guys , i am 41 years old and i ve been on online gaming as a player , for how long now?...20 years?...somewhere around that , so plz allow me to tell you a few things.
I ve been there , done that...not with TS but with skype and other similar means like 3rd party sites and such , on several games and occasions . I ve been on teams , i ve been leader of clans , factions , brigades , i ve been a simple members on several occasions aswell , hell i was even a leader of a hole nation once. So plz lemmie tell you how this hole thing gonna play out .

At first , you will indeed get organized well and you ll have some significant success which will (and already did) make you enthousiastic about it . But as the time goes by , you ll begin to get isolated from the main body of the players base of your own nation . You ll have your own "strategies" (which already begins to happen faster than i expected) , you ll drop on your own teams , and soon after , you ll begin to feel uncomfortable with every new players joining your drops . You would barely talk to em , quide em or support em . You will , like i said above , get isolated on your own "crystal palace" of your own design , chocked on your own "importance" and "godhood" .
After that point , all hell will break loose . Ppl will start to come forth in the forums , accusing you of elitistic behavior (and they wont be very wrong) , flames and trolling will begin , and then ppl will either quit the nation and join another , or will create their own small groups and follow no directions or strategies and just play their own game till they get bored and quit themselfs.
So plz excuse me if i wont join any TS server , or any other kind of 3rd party comunication device , or large teams , or council's or websites , or anything else beyond the public forums and the voip . And to be honest , my experience from "organized teams" so far its not the best.Too much arrogance , too much "pro" behavior and at the bottom line , they dont play to enjoy the game.They play to win....thus the rushes and the drop point camps . So pardon me if i dont want to be a part of this. Maybe in the future , i will join a small group of 5-6 ppl , but that would be all.
If you wonna lead attacks or defences , voip can do just fine and i will follow you .As for anything else , thnx but no thnx.
Like i said , been there done that....and its always end up in the same bad way.
So if you be wise enough to take my advice and not push that TS thing too far , things will remain good .
Besides , wasnt there another topic saying how good FRR anorganized pugs performed with some leading through the voip?...isnt it true that FRR's pugs turned the tides of this war with only some straight forward orders like " go c2" , "stay together" , "push on my count 5-4-3-2-1..." etc?
Why would you make things more complicated?...what more can you accomplise?
Simple solutions are always the best.


Thnx again for your attention mates and plz once again , forgive my bad english

[Nazar24]

Hronis1974, on 29 March 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

a)whats the point of keeping a big sluggish mech like the stalker in the fight , while both its torsos and 80% of its weapons are gone? how effective can a stalker with a single LL left on its center torso be?....i can do that with a locust with 170kph instead of 65 kph , and be far more effective. Its the "zombie" mentality that i dont agree with i quess .

Reduced to a stick? Bullet magnet time! And this is true for pretty much every mech.
But what is important, is not what you do when you are neutered, but what you do before.
I can guarantee you that until the stalker keep his weapons, it's way ,way more dangerous than a locust.
As long as you torso twist you will keep your weapons for a long time.

Hronis1974, on 29 March 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

1) too big to hide anywhere .
2)too big to go unoticed.
3)way too vanurable to LRM's
4)way too slow to escape or even to get behind cover in time .
5) no exceptional fire power .

1) 2) 3) you are not moving with your team
4) is true for all of the assaults
5)The stalker can dish 54 damage at 500+ meters, with high mounted hardpoint.

Hronis1974, on 29 March 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

Torso twisting the stalker , its the fastest way to lose your weapons.

What are you doing is not torso twist.
Losing 3LL is better than losing your CT.

Hronis1974, on 29 March 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

i did 6 MPL'S on my cicada 2A , so i know that they are good at close ranges , but here is the thing . The cicada runs with 124 kph at least and so it is able to perform cavalry tactics .[...]
And lets face it guys , 42 dmg at 350 metters its not exactly great[...] .
Being "fun" and being "practical" are 2 different things .

Different mechs, different tonnage, different armor, different heat cap, different role.
If you don't like them, don't use them, but give caesar what is caesar's.

Edited by Nazar24, 29 March 2015 - 10:36 PM.

[VXJaeger]

Mech to look for "replacing" TDR-9S is Vindicator 1AA. Best PPC quirks ingame and fast.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...860b2f130721cb9

In CW don't waste ammo or heat to gateturrets. They will shutdown when gategenerator is destroyed.

Edited by VXJaeger, 29 March 2015 - 11:22 PM.

[Tarogato]

Spoiler

Hronis1974, on 29 March 2015 - 05:07 AM, said:

Hi mates ,

I am Hronis1974 (even thats my ingame name) , and i would like to offer a few small tips that came out of my what lil experience i have gain by playing CW for a month now . Plz dont consider this as an "arrogance" , nor like a "know all " attitude . Its just , that while i am dead and watching other ppl playing , i ve noticed a few things like, lots of misses while using balistics or PPc's or mjissuses of certain mechs . Thus i am just offering this "aiming" technic which is easy to handle , even after consuming lots of beers..(lol....trust me , i know ) , and some advices on other subjects . Its up to you if you would find em usuefull or not .
So , here is the thing....

a) no matter what build you have (balistic or PPc's heavy) , always add a single (at least one , or more ) large laser , on a safe location on your mech (lets say somewhere in your torsos) , preferably on a high position .
Put that laser on group one and on its own , and use it the same way a sniper uses the laser on his rifle , in order to mark his target . When the laser starts to burn and its "painting" your target (and before it burns out) , click your other mouse button to release your projectiles (balistics or PPC's). Your hit rate will exceed 70% at ranges up to 400 meters , no matter if your target is moving or not .

b ) Conserning stalkers...

...yes , they are good mechs , but not "excellent" mechs . They have 2 , major issues . I ll offer a solution for each one , which is not great , but it helped me alot , in order to support the teams i droped with .
1) Low speed (even with max engine and speed tweak , stalker cannot exceed 65 kph forward and far less backward). ....thus , a Stalker cannot play "peekaboo" with a Stormcrow behind corners . Since thats the case , just add 5 LL's on it , devide them into 2 groups (3LL'S on mouse 1 , 2 LL's on mouse 2) and make em both firing in chain fire , while your standing your ground (dont back off into the corner again unless you have no other choice ) . By firing both groups in chain fire , first LL's burn time , overlapsed by the next one , and the next , and the next , and the next , till the first fired LL is ready to fire again , before the last ones burn out expires...creating a full continoum of firing for about 3 full (3X5 LL) cicles , in less than 10 secs....thats alot of dmg before you even overheat .
2)Weak arms...yup , thats Stalkers most redicoulus weakness . Against that , what i am proposing , its almost as redicoulus , yet effective tactic . ....
Dont "torso twist" at all....maybe Stalker its the only mech one can say that . Instead , move almost all your mechs armor from the back to your front (leaving just lets say , 3-4 points in your back) and try to atract all the dmg to your center torso (which is the strongest). If a mech gets behind you , your dead anyway , no matter if you have 3-4 points or 30 points , its all the same. My way , you could actualy have a chance to kill your opponent before he gets your back .

c) Conserning Thunderbolts...

I personaly never used that mech , but seriously now guys , 7 MPL'S build its not working in CW. Actualy , what ever works in solo que , almost never works in CW.
I understand that TDR is getting bonuses on PL's , but even with those , 350 meters range is not great . And all this time , you guys are waiting behind a corner for the claners to get close to you in order to use your weaponry ,leaving the rest of ppl strangling alone . But here is the problem . When they do that , its when our front lines are already colapsed , and they are coming to you in a zerg/swarm manner ,and in that case , your 7 MP'S can do ...plain and simple...jack. Instead....use those bonuses on LP'S , in order to support your team at the early stages of the battle. LPL'S are formitable weapons , and if i am not very wrong , they can achive ranges up to 475 meters on a TDR(more than a normal LL).So plz use at least 2 of em with your builds.


Thats all the things i would like to cover in this post . Plz be adviced that English is not my native language , and i am translating Greeks in to them .Thus , my sayings dont always come out the way i ment em to be so , so again if you find my saying insulting on anyway , plz ask me to clarify .


Thnx for your attention mates

Hronis1974, on 29 March 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

hi again mates ,

i see you got my points wrong , and thats probably my fault , so plz lemmie clarify a few things .

For first , i never said that stalkers or thunders are bad mechs , i said that certain builds and uses of these particular mechs are wrong , and ofc thats only my opinion . Let me explain then....

a)whats the point of keeping a big sluggish mech like the stalker in the fight , while both its torsos and 80% of its weapons are gone? how effective can a stalker with a single LL left on its center torso be?....i can do that with a locust with 170kph instead of 65 kph , and be far more effective. Its the "zombie" mentality that i dont agree with i quess .
And yes , i bought the stalker boundle , mastered its skills , experimented with it alot (i actualy was amongst the firsts to use that mech in CW with 5 LL build) , but i was totaly unsatisfied with its performance and after a couple of weeks , i just sold all 4 of em for c-bills and just bought back the 4 cicada variants i used to have before . Why? cuz the stalker is...

1) too big to hide anywhere .
2)too big to go unoticed ( i used to get picked from distances up to 1200 metter from clan er LL's and PPc's).With only 65 kph of speed, i usualy got yellow-ish before i even reach the gates .
3)way too vanurable to LRM's cuz its just a big torso especialy on the upper side where its as flat and big , as a town square , or an aircraft carrier .Without having any shoulders at all to spread the dmg , every single missile always hit something important .
4)way too slow to escape or even to get behind cover in time . If i would got in the open by my mistake , or because the front lines have colapsed , it was all over .
5) no exceptional fire power . 5 LL's its the only thing it could handle. I tried 6 LL's on the N variant , but it got overheat way too much , even on Boreal . I also tried every possible energy and balistic combination on misery . What i noticed was that the first weapon to go , was always the balistic . As for sniping , well as i said....too big to go unoticed and so , the return fire that i was reciving was alot more than i could dish -out.
Maybe what this fellow said above is true , maybe i never understood the chassis .Maybe i just wrongly tried to "fit" the mech into my tactics , while instead i should have picked a better mech that could actualy performed the way i wanted it . At the bottom line , i was just disapointed to see that i was doing better with just 4 cicadas on the dropdeck , rather than 2 stalkers and 2 cicadas .Maybe i was expecting too much from a 85tons mech, or maybe just , i am not a patient player.Now i am experimenting with cataphracts , and so far i am not thrilled about em either .
On the other hand , i am impressed with the quickdraw K variant ,despite the fact that its not even basic-ed yet .So yeah , maybe i ve chosen the wrong mech in the first place .
But ashide my personal feelings about the stalker , what i said before holds alot of truth .Torso twisting the stalker , its the fastest way to lose your weapons . So unless you like to run around with a single LL like a headless chicken in a zombie mode , thats the last thing you should do . 56 points of armor on the arms its nothing great , its just equal to a decent alpha strike from a timber , plain and simple and be sure , thats exactly where it will try to hit you.

b)why add 6 LL's on a chassis that can handle only 4 or 5 max ?...isnt it better to have less weaps and fire more , than having more weaps and fire less or not at all cuz of the constant overheating?...or even holding back just to avoid exactly that?
c)about headshots?...well i never got headshoted on a stalker..i quess cuz its cockpit its high above its torso.The real danger comes from below , that point between its torso and its legs .The same point that all the locusts/firestarters/spiders always exploid in solo que .

About thunders...

d)i did 6 MPL'S on my cicada 2A , so i know that they are good at close ranges , but here is the thing . The cicada runs with 124 kph at least and so it is able to perform cavalry tactics , like running and shooting and close any range with it when ever you feel like it.Can a thunderbolt do that ?.From a mech as big as a thunderbolt , one should expect more than this .Besides , what i said above , came from my experience on spectating others and not by me playing it . And so far , i havent seen anyone performing decently with a 7MPL thunderbolt .They usualy stay behind waiting for others to make a break through and when this wont happen and the team gets overun , they are unable to kill a single dmged nova with sml's and some mg's.If they had some weaps with some range in the first place , they would have helped to actualy make that break through at the early stages of the battle , where it would be more important .And actualy , i did saw such builds and they were wonderfull from every aspect , from keeping enemies heads down, to tear timbers to pieces .And lets face it guys , 42 dmg at 350 metters its not exactly great . I have 3 LL and ac/10 on my phracts and do 37 dmg (just 5 points lower) at 450 meters without any modules.What i am saying is that , being "fun" and being "practical" are 2 different things . Again , thats only my opinion , so it doesnt have to be the right one . If you feel that 7MPL build is good for you , then use it , thats fine by me . Just dont do it on my expence.

Conserning TS server , nations , organized teams and all that jazz...

Well guys , i am 41 years old and i ve been on online gaming as a player , for how long now?...20 years?...somewhere around that , so plz allow me to tell you a few things.
I ve been there , done that...not with TS but with skype and other similar means like 3rd party sites and such , on several games and occasions . I ve been on teams , i ve been leader of clans , factions , brigades , i ve been a simple members on several occasions aswell , hell i was even a leader of a hole nation once. So plz lemmie tell you how this hole thing gonna play out .

At first , you will indeed get organized well and you ll have some significant success which will (and already did) make you enthousiastic about it . But as the time goes by , you ll begin to get isolated from the main body of the players base of your own nation . You ll have your own "strategies" (which already begins to happen faster than i expected) , you ll drop on your own teams , and soon after , you ll begin to feel uncomfortable with every new players joining your drops . You would barely talk to em , quide em or support em . You will , like i said above , get isolated on your own "crystal palace" of your own design , chocked on your own "importance" and "godhood" .
After that point , all hell will break loose . Ppl will start to come forth in the forums , accusing you of elitistic behavior (and they wont be very wrong) , flames and trolling will begin , and then ppl will either quit the nation and join another , or will create their own small groups and follow no directions or strategies and just play their own game till they get bored and quit themselfs.
So plz excuse me if i wont join any TS server , or any other kind of 3rd party comunication device , or large teams , or council's or websites , or anything else beyond the public forums and the voip . And to be honest , my experience from "organized teams" so far its not the best.Too much arrogance , too much "pro" behavior and at the bottom line , they dont play to enjoy the game.They play to win....thus the rushes and the drop point camps . So pardon me if i dont want to be a part of this. Maybe in the future , i will join a small group of 5-6 ppl , but that would be all.
If you wonna lead attacks or defences , voip can do just fine and i will follow you .As for anything else , thnx but no thnx.
Like i said , been there done that....and its always end up in the same bad way.
So if you be wise enough to take my advice and not push that TS thing too far , things will remain good .
Besides , wasnt there another topic saying how good FRR anorganized pugs performed with some leading through the voip?...isnt it true that FRR's pugs turned the tides of this war with only some straight forward orders like " go c2" , "stay together" , "push on my count 5-4-3-2-1..." etc?
Why would you make things more complicated?...what more can you accomplise?
Simple solutions are always the best.


Thnx again for your attention mates and plz once again , forgive my bad english

It's clear that you don't understand the meta in CW. That's okay, the more you play it, the more you'll come to realise what works and what doesn't work and why some things are used more than others.

Things that work and have been proven to work and are used by literally everybody, especially organised teams, because they work:

• Stalkers with six large lasers.
  
• Thunderbolts with seven medium pulse lasers.

The reason I say it's clear that you don't understand the specific gameplay, is because you seem to think that those two choices don't work, when in fact they are two of the very best mechs available to the Innersphere right now - they work.


Stalkers work because they can tank a lot of damage. A good Stalker pilot will lose one side torso and still have half his weapons remaining - he will continue to shield with the broken side torso, thus lasting longer on the battlefield and soaking more damage and attention that would otherwise have gone to his teammates instead.

Thunderbolt 5SS with medium pulses works in much the same way. It's really decent at soaking up extra damage and it has an extraordinary punch, it can deal a lot of damage in a short period of time and it can keep it up as well. Clan mechs can't compete with this, they'll overheat before our Thunderbolts will, which is why we use our Thunderbolts at close range.

---

On the topic of TS servers and such, I recommend giving it a try. Since you're in the FRR, you have a very homely community that you can interact with - it's the FRR Hub TS server. There's no real hierarchy to worry about, you don't have to join a unit or be involved in any politics at all, you can just show up and play the game with us, we'd be glad to have you. Some guys drop by for only two or three games one night a week, other guys are super involved and act as commanders for entire evenings multiple nights a week.

Note: I say "us" because I'm at home in the FRR. My current contract with Kurita is only temporary.

Edited by Tarogato, 30 March 2015 - 12:05 AM.

[Hayashi]

Tactics that work against PuGs may not necessarily work against 12-mans from CWI or CWDG. The particular source of the 12-man matters - certain 12-mans I shall not specify are not a threat if faced in a fight, and only a threat as they ghostdrop in large numbers - even PuGs with no voice coordination can quite easily outplay them. Trying to use tactics that can be simply conveyed in text chat against CWI however will lead to a 36-48 stomp at best, a 12-48 stomp at worst - and even voice-coordinated, there isn't always a guarantee of victory.

P.S. If there's one thing you do not want to do against clanners, it's to rely on long ranged weapons. Clans have greater range, alpha damage and armor. They must be forced into constant engagement at close range in order for IS tech to have a chance, where they will then have to choose between being shot to pieces by greater quirk-boosted DPS, or intentionally pushing their mechs to 95% before overriding and doing a suicidal alpha on the greatest threat they can see, as ClanTech is weak at sustained DPS, and weak at dmg per heat efficiency.

Edited by Hayashi, 30 March 2015 - 02:48 AM.

[sycocys]

FRR pugs are awesome!

Playing in an organized team is much better because you can set up drop decks that work with each others and tactics AHEAD of the match.

Being a part of a unit gives you that advantage of having up to 11 other players that you know what they are going to do, and they know what you do. Most support fire doesn't require calls for help because they already have your back. Tactics are much easier laid out because you understand where you are supposed to be from the start, and you can start using more complex and effective maneuvers than you could with pug teams.


While we do have some units with younger guys here (in their 20s) a LOT of us in the FRR are 30+, many of us have been playing this game since closed beta so you are dealing with many chill guys that have an absolute wealth of knowledge in the mechanics and gameplay of this game.

Not saying that your Cicada's didn't work out better for you, everyone has their own style of play - but a big part of CW is spreading clan alpha damage out across 12 mechs each drop, and for that purpose running a deck of cicada's won't get the job done. You need to have armor points in your deck to spread that out to give your teammates an opportunity to lay down the damage your single cicada simply can not put out. I would definitely recommend against 4 Cicadas in pug matches for that reason, while it might be workable into a unit's set of decks, pugs truly require that everyone be taking their share of the damage load.

[Tom Sawyer]

Battlemaster1G(P) is another strong mech if you know how to play it. But I agree on the stalkers and thunderbolts. Some of the top scoring OLD pilots will simply wreck your day with these.

[EldenLance]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on ballistics part. At least partly. The thing is that I run mostly ballistic mechs and I finally came down to removing a ERLL from my dragon, because it distracts me from aiming AC5s. Lasers require a direct aim while ballistics require you to take a slight lead on moving targets and a slightly upper aim at the distance. Besides, I'd rather take 5 more tons of ac shells.

The 7MPL TDR-5SS is a decent build as a CQB mech. Ideal for taking out softened targets with percision strike. Though I have swapped it out in favor of DRG-5N.(Which had so happened to have 2LPLS as a secondary, but it is more of an exception where I accept the hardship of aiming both - ballistics and lasers)

As for stalkers - I love those things, though I never pilot one. A stalker of any type (Misery or 4N) is the best friend of a DRG-1N pilot. Combined arms it is.

[Rushin Roulette]

Your comparisson between the Locust and the Stalker or the Cicada and the Thunderwub doesnt really make much sence.

re. Locust/Stalkerstick
You are comparing a small, fast and undamaged mech with 1 Laser to a nearly completely destroyed Assault mech with 1 laser (used to have 6). The fact, that the stalker could theoretically dish out loads of damage before the state of stickedness comes uppon it (ie. it got hammered on both sides by torso twisting and spreading the damage doesnt seem to pop up in your theory). Even so, the Stalker with both side torsos lost, but CT and legs on full armour still needs much more hits to go down than a Locust with completely undamaged armour. Hitting a Locust isnt that hard, you just need to rake over the legs often enough with lasers or Clan ACs to whittle them down in 3 or 4 passes.

re. Cicada w. 6MPL/Thunderwub w. 7 MPL
Have you checked out the heat efficiency between those 2 mechs? The Cicada may be fast, but the Thunderwub has a STD reactor which makes it a lot more survivable and LOOOOads more armour and heatsinks which allow it to shoot the weapons on cooldown for quite a while (Even with a lvl 5 cooldown module ontop of the quirks).


LRMS
I have only one message for anyone who is thinking of playing with them;

GET YOUR OWN DAMN LOCKS!

Seriously, any brawler up front will have his hands far too full to keep his own lock steady, tosotwisting, reprioritising his own target, searching for a softened up target or looking for the main team focus target as well as fighting in the ECM bubble to care for your locks for you.
If you want to play with LRMS, go forwards offensively to a position between the snipers and the brawlers, use BAP and TAG and help your team by being one more target to spread their damage focus away from the brawlers. The difference between 4 selectable targets and 5 secletable targets is huge and means that everyone survives longer to deal more damage.
Repositioning yourself to shoot around enemy cover is also much easier than at closer range, as 12° lateral movement is maybe 20 meters at 200 distance, but can mean about 500 meters at longer distances.

[Hronis1974]

Hi again mates ,

Lol ok , i begin to feel like the "bad guy" in this post sequence lol . Obviously we have different aproaches on this subject . You all say that those mechs are the best in IS arsenal , which probably hold alot of truth , what i am saying tho is that fact not necceessarily make em good . In the scale of 10 if a mech is 5 , ofc its much better from a mech rating up to 3 , but still its not 8 or 9 , which most clan mechs are . So basicaly what your saying , is that "if life gives you lemons , go make a lemonade " , what i am saying is " if i need aples , doesnt matter how many lemons you gonna give me , i still cant make an aple-pie" .
If you like those mechs and you can make em work , sure by all means use em. Personaly and conserning the Stalker , i found sarnas.net description very accurate...."nothing fancy , but it keeps coming".Conserning thunders i saw ppl using 2 LPL's and some MPL'S to be more helpfull and succesfull than others using MPLS' only . Maybe it wasnt the mechs problem , but pilots problem , i dont know and so i cant tell. For sure tho , those ppl stayed behind waiting for the "perfect moment" to strike .
And cicadas , yes , wont cut it....thats why i am looking for something to replace them . Thats also why i keep experimenting with different mechs .Curently i use 1 quickdraw K with just 3 LL's , 1 Ilya murommets with 1 LL and 2 normal ppc's , 1 cata 3d with the same configuration , and 1 cicada x-5 with 4 ML's 1 srm 4 and 1 srm 2 . With that drop deck , i usualy break the 1k dmg (with the exception of grimm portico which is very laggy to me and in which i only get 15 fps max) ,and 2-6 kills while i usualy am one of the first guys to die . Its sad to see tho that 50% of my kills and dmg dealt , comes from the tinny lil x-5.
What i need is a bigger cicada . With more armor and armament , similar speed (at around 100 kphs +-10kph) , but not so big or broad or tall like most humanoid mechs that IS has . So basicaly what i need is a bushwacker/champion/marauder....but we dont have one those .
Imho , what IS needs is a mech that can close the distance fast , drop inside a group of clanners , create panic , a mess and a chaos , deal some serious dmg and get out fast alive and well .
As for ERLL's yes you are right , we cant outrange the clanners , that why i never mentioned them anywhere in my sayings , nor the ERPPC'S.The balistics on the other hand , i found them not worthy of their tonnage , own and their ammo . AC/10 is pretty much "meh" weap , lbx-10 is heat friendly and can be spamed alot , but cant give you kills easily , ac/5s realy weak weap and one needs to use at least 2 of em to make significant dmg , uac5 are formitable and very powerfull weaps but totaly unreliable (in several occasions jamed all 3 of em in the first salvo , and in one occasion infront of a timber) , ac/20 is powerfull but with only 270 metters range and 14 tons of weight to me its out of the question .I mean , if i can do 20 dmg with 4 ML 4 tons of weight , same range and just 2 extra DHS , why would i use an ac/20 , which is not heat friendly either? I have no pinion about gauss rifles cuz i only tried em in testing grounds , found em complicated to operate , so i never used em in battle.
Normal PPC'S , to me are far superior than ERPPC'S on every aspect with the reange as an exception , but the thing is that beyond 500meters an on a moving target , the hit chances are slim anyway .

@eldenlance

Mate , yes you are right . Trying to aim 2 different weaps is confusing , but thats not what i said . I said that if your LL paints the target , then your balistic will hit also especialy the ac5/uac5 which have fast projectiles , given ofc that you are inside your weaps range parameters . The same aplies for the ppc aswell . If you wait till your LL burns off , and THEN shoot your balistic/ppc , probably wont hit , unless you lead a bit as you said . But that would require some focus and consentration . My tactic is a no brainer , a simple solution that works as i said , even after a huge beer consumption...lol


PS. Guys i know that my idea's look pretty much alien to you and somewhat irritating . I know that the mentality that prevails so far , its that of what the "youtubers" suggest . Dont take unnessasary risks , always take cover , blah blah blah , yada yada yada....which are all good and nice , but not always work well . Personaly , i prefer to go bully the clanners , jump into a group of em , start throughing punches create a mess and a chaos , distract em and disorganize em , get a kill if possible , die , get to the next mech , hence and repeat .And if i dont get that kill its all good , the guy behind me that saw me do that , if he is smart will take advantage of the situation , and get one or more kills out of those i dmged and whom they are still focused on killing me . I seriously have no problem dieing if that helps my team to get the upper hand at the early stages of the battle , cuz good morale depends alot on that . I dont feel that i should "protect my image" by dieing last .
That ofc doesnt mean that i wont follow orders if those are clearly given . Ofc i will follow whatever the commander suggests , but i ll do it on my own way .
So if you find my sayings , stupid , insulting or provocating on any way , i apologize in advance . But thats my opinion and what i believe .

Thnx again

[sycocys]

How useful is a 0 weapon zombie stalker? Just ask the guys in OLD who get a mobile barricade backing into the enemy lines. Clanners either put heat on my back to take me down or let me guide a team directly onto their location. Never give them an easy kill in your assault make them take every last armor point you can force them to take. It's also much better at spreading damage than you think, it just takes some practice because of its unique shape and hit boxes.


I'm not knocking your ability to play cicada's or anything, but dropping that far under armor / under ton / under dps without being in a unit that can try to compensate for that before the match isn't a great strategy for this mode. CW is like the raids of other games and you do need to be equipped properly in order to properly do your share of the damage and damage taking.

The CDA-3M gets some leeway, say if you were running all 4 with ecm - which does make up for some armor and dps loss with the jesus box attached, but it is still one of those things that is vastly more effective with a unit than pugging because it's a specialized drop deck.

Also when considering your effectiveness in CW opposed to standard drops (at least standard pre-voip/this event), you need to value in how well your teammates did. Did your 1500 damage round draw enough fire and enemies out of coverage for the other 3 in your lance to have 1500 damage rounds as well? Were you setting up kills and not just putting a shot on every mech for those 26 kill assists?

CW is as I said similar to raid mode of other games and does require at least a certain level of elitism to be consistently successful, but you'll find with the FRR groups that the grand majority of them are 30+ years old and here for fun and a good challenge above all else. There's a couple with excessive cussers (the guys in their mid 20s from my guess), but they are also very good with game strategy and if you can tolerate it for a few matches at a time you are going to learn quite a bit about this mode.

If you want to try a social group that does generally quite well and doesn't have the hierarchies and all that check in with OLD, to my recollection every person in the group is 30-45 (sorry guys just making a guess there, some of you sound that old =P ), we have very little cussing if ever and no one gets down on other players.

Our mission is simply to have fun, if you get into our chat you'll notice very quickly that the majority of our communication is banter interluded by target calling with the occasional discussions about adult life, random history, how's your kids/wife/family doing and so forth - very, very different from any other guild/unit I've ever been a part of and this is how it's been for the nearly 2 years strong I've been involved.

We don't debrief, hold councils, roleplay (although most of us are battletech fans and enjoy lore discussion), we just play and have fun, then play and have more fun.