168 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

...........So that when the normalization pass inevitably comes,we can end up with decent looking guns instead of these pathetic itty bitty things they keep ruining all your awesome designs with?

(It's called the art of politics: Start from an extremely exaggerated position, so that when you "concede" and meet in the middle, you really end up getting exactly what you wanted in the first place)

My Jagermech, K2 and Centurions all beg if of you.





My Awesome has been hiding in the closet, scared that if PGI notices it, it'll end up looking like this:


seriously, PGI.

Be kind, rewind, and think before you drink.....our mechs are suffering, and shamed.



stop and remember when they were beautiful, please?


A glimpse of things to come?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 30 March 2015 - 11:22 AM.

[MikeBend]

While weapon scaling makes sense, it did make some mechs ugly. Some iconic mechs. And we have enough ugly in MWO as is, no need for more.

[Quxudica]

MikeBend, on 29 March 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

While weapon scaling makes sense, it did make some mechs ugly. Some iconic mechs. And we have enough ugly in MWO as is, no need for more.

Weapons really should not scale at all. A ppc should be the size it was in the Catapults armpods, massive. An AC/20 should be as enormous as the Hunchbacks housing suggests it is. Consequently some weapons should simply be too large for some mechs. A raven should not be able to carry a gauss, a spider should not be able to carry a ppc cannon. Weapons having defined physical sizes instead of simply requiring vaguely defined magical crit slots would add a nice layer of depth to mech building and justify the existence of certain chassis. there's no reason for MWO's Hunchback to have that tactically disadvantageous Hunch when an ac/20 can morph to fit in any sized gun slot with 14 "criticals".

Mech chassis designs should be more than simply cosmetic, there should be functionality associated with why they have the designs they do. Right now the only thing about mech design that makes any difference at all is hitbox layout, which is arguably only tentatively associated with the physical look of some mechs.

If they wanted they could introduce variant weapons to compensate, ppc canons or gauss rifles designed for smaller mechs for example but with reduced range/damage because of their compact nature.

I really dislike the overly simplistic nature of how equipment works in MWO. some more restrictions would do wonders and provide indirect buffs to some lesser used chassis if they could suddenly fit weapons they were designed to carry that their more popular brethren no longer can.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quxudica, on 29 March 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:

Weapons really should not scale at all. A ppc should be the size it was in the Catapults armpods, massive. An AC/20 should be as enormous as the Hunchbacks housing suggests it is. Consequently some weapons should simply be too large for some mechs. A raven should not be able to carry a gauss, a spider should not be able to carry a ppc cannon. Weapons having defined physical sizes instead of simply requiring vaguely defined magical crit slots would add a nice layer of depth to mech building and justify the existence of certain chassis. there's no reason for MWO's Hunchback to have that tactically disadvantageous Hunch when an ac/20 can morph to fit in any sized gun slot with 14 "criticals".

Mech chassis designs should be more than simply cosmetic, there should be functionality associated with why they have the designs they do. Right now the only thing about mech design that makes any difference at all is hitbox layout, which is arguably only tentatively associated with the physical look of some mechs.

If they wanted they could introduce variant weapons to compensate, ppc canons or gauss rifles designed for smaller mechs for example but with reduced range/damage because of their compact nature.

I really dislike the overly simplistic nature of how equipment works in MWO. some more restrictions would do wonders and provide indirect buffs to some lesser used chassis if they could suddenly fit weapons they were designed to carry that their more popular brethren no longer can.

makes more sense when it's 20-25% of the mechs mass.

[Quxudica]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 March 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

makes more sense when it's 20-25% of the mechs mass.

Yeah and you could do it that way for immersions sake I guess. That said, I know we are talking about fictional scifi tanks here, but I don't really buy for a second that a Spider could function like that. It makes more sense to me that oversized weapons would require smaller mechs specifically built to carry them like the Hunchback or the Hollander. It's also more interesting to me too, it helps define the roles of the various chassis. Vehicles of war are always designed with their role in mind, it's why they look the way they do. Some can fill multiple roles thanks to variants, but you don't see a Bradly sporting an M1A1's canon because it wasn't built to be a Main Battle Tank.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quxudica, on 29 March 2015 - 07:45 AM, said:

Yeah and you could do it that way for immersions sake I guess. That said, I know we are talking about fictional scifi tanks here, but I don't really buy for a second that a Spider could function like that. It makes more sense to me that oversized weapons would require smaller mechs specifically built to carry them like the Hunchback or the Hollander. It's also more interesting to me too, it helps define the roles of the various chassis. Vehicles of war are always designed with their role in mind, it's why they look the way they do. Some can fill multiple roles thanks to variants, but you don't see a Bradly sporting an M1A1's canon because it wasn't built to be a Main Battle Tank.

fortunately, (or unfortunately) PGI never implemented the logical "sized hardpoint" system which would have allowed for that, and given mechs like the Panther and Hollander and Urbanmech a more solidified role. INstead, any light can slap on a PPC or Gauss (well, not tonnage wise, but you know what I mean) and go.

I hate it, you apparently hate it, but at least this would add some hitbox balance trade off to people who want their HSR lagshielded FS9 to be bazooka Joe (not that it's common anymore with PPCs basically sucking)

But it's mostly to demonstrate how large a PPXC SHOULD look on those chassis, which byw, i did by taking the one directly off the Banshee, with no further manipulation.

[Bishop Steiner]

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 March 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

makes more sense when it's 20-25% of the mechs mass.

And lets face it, it looks kind of awesome to have your wee spider packing a massive cannon like that. The PPC Firestarter just looks silly.

[Johnny Z]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 March 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

makes more sense when it's 20-25% of the mechs mass.

Dude your 100% right here. They have put some effort into scaling the weapons recently and I really do respect that, but it needs another look.

As well, some of the weapons are not long enough it seems.

Edited by Johnny Z, 29 March 2015 - 07:58 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 29 March 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

And lets face it, it looks kind of awesome to have your wee spider packing a massive cannon like that. The PPC Firestarter just looks silly.

Megaman or bust.

(Locust mockup looks even more wicked, IMHO)

[Kristov Kerensky]

Quxudica, on 29 March 2015 - 07:45 AM, said:

Yeah and you could do it that way for immersions sake I guess. That said, I know we are talking about fictional scifi tanks here, but I don't really buy for a second that a Spider could function like that. It makes more sense to me that oversized weapons would require smaller mechs specifically built to carry them like the Hunchback or the Hollander. It's also more interesting to me too, it helps define the roles of the various chassis. Vehicles of war are always designed with their role in mind, it's why they look the way they do. Some can fill multiple roles thanks to variants, but you don't see a Bradly sporting an M1A1's canon because it wasn't built to be a Main Battle Tank.

True, on the Bradly/M1A2 bit, but not so much with BattleMechs. Keep in mind, the UrbanMech has an AC10 stock, and there's the Cappellan Confederation's AC20 variant as well, that's a 30 ton Mech mind, one of the smallest in the BTech universe at that. The Panther was originally designed to carry a PPC, these ARE BattleMechs after all, the smallest in BTech were under 11m, the shortest given height was 9m. They aren't 'little' per se, they are simple less massive than others, which ranged from 10m to 15m tall per FASA's original listed heights, when they can be found at all. Just look at the original TRO artwork, the weapons are larger usually than we see in MWO, but a Panther carrying an ERPPC doesn't look anything like what Bishop put together, as cool as that looks(friggen awesome!).

PGI has scaled Mechs rather strangely compared to the actual source material, and I understand why, they are designing around the LCD mindset. Light means little, Medium means medium, Heavy means big, and Assault means huge. That's NOT what FASA did with them however, and it's rather telling.

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 March 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

Oh, god, I missed this post entirely the first time through, had to scroll back when you mentioned the locust.

That's badass.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 29 March 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

Oh, god, I missed this post entirely the first time through, had to scroll back when you mentioned the locust.

That's badass.

yeah, it's bad for the hitbox, but'd I'd pay to have my locust look like a Lightning Cannon on Legs.

[GroovYChickeN]

Yeah. the weapon scaling is bad.

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 March 2015 - 07:12 AM, said:

stop and remember when they were beautiful, please?

I can't see these old K2 shots without fighting back tears.

That was a truly awesome looking mech. Never saw it with Sherman, and that makes it look even better. Sherman's an awesome camo for Big Gun Mechs.

[Zordicron]

There are different manufacturers of the same weapon.

HOWEVER, we do not get the variables associated with those different manufacturers.

THEREFORE it logically should be the same weapon model on all mechs, no scaling whatsoever. Basically, we get one single PPC in the game out of a dozen manufacturers, on all the mechs. The pictures with LOLMEGABUSTER should actually be what we get.

EDIT: Or, tiny tiny lolsmall PPC on a Banshee.

Edited by Eldagore, 29 March 2015 - 08:08 AM.

[Burktross]

My full suppport!
Save the hunchback 4H AC/10 and the 4G mgs!

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 29 March 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

I can't see these old K2 shots without fighting back tears.

That was a truly awesome looking mech. Never saw it with Sherman, and that makes it look even better. Sherman's an awesome camo for Big Gun Mechs.

old K2 was the best looking mech in the game, by a longshot. MAybe they threw acid in it's face on purpose so people would look at the Timber Wolf. (especially since it got so chunky that it needed as little visual competition as possible)

[Johnny Z]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 March 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

yeah, it's bad for the hitbox, but'd I'd pay to have my locust look like a Lightning Cannon on Legs.

Well if hit boxes is the price then so be it. This is supposed to be a SIM. I am not complaining about the game but this tiny weapon thing and various sizes and such needs a serious look.

I was sitting on the fence about this size issue thing until that "its 20% - 25% of the mech's mass" comment.

Edited by Johnny Z, 29 March 2015 - 08:12 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Eldagore, on 29 March 2015 - 08:05 AM, said:

There are different manufacturers of the same weapon.

HOWEVER, we do not get the variables associated with those different manufacturers.

THEREFORE it logically should be the same weapon model on all mechs, no scaling whatsoever. Basically, we get one single PPC in the game out of a dozen manufacturers, on all the mechs. The pictures with LOLMEGABUSTER should actually be what we get.

EDIT: Or, tiny tiny lolsmall PPC on a Banshee.

True, though even from different manufacturers, most similar weapons are similarly sized. Some might be shorter and thicker, some long and thinner, but within reason, most 120mm tank guns are the same basic dimensions, or very close (not counting short barrel versions, which also usually weigh less)