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Remember Mwo Before Ghost Heat?


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#21 Col Jaime Wolf

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 07:49 PM

View PostAlistair Winter, on 29 March 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

People would use ridiculous builds like Stalkers with 6 large lasers. If we had the Thunderbolt back then, I guess people would have put 6-7 medium pulse lasers on it. Can you imagine? Or put 4-6 large pulse lasers on an assault mech!

Thank God we don't see crazy builds like that anymore. Finally things are working as intended.


um i hate to break your bubble but i still run 6 LL battlemasters all the time, hell i even have fun wiht 6ppc battlemasters just for the lulz.

ghost heat didnt to anything but make this game harder to balance in the long run. there should have just been a heat cap that prevented you from firing to many weapons at once. i mean look

shooting ac2's for ROF will explode your mech faster then almost anything, forget that ac2's are a pretty bad weapon to begin with even before ghost heat.

most clan mechs are brutally punished by ghost heat

we now have fun schemes were all lasers are bundled together, like all clan med/small lasers counting towards ghost heat

the heat bar is a lie

the heat bar is a lie

the heat bar is A LIE

there is no way to truly tell how well your mech handles heat other then using the testing grounds

the HEAT BAR IS A LIE FOR #$#$ # SAKE.

the cake is a lie.

we still see pinpoint 60 mechs even if they don't exclusively use ppcs

we still see massive lrm boats of the 60+ variety

we still see LL boats and MPL boats (banshee used to be a real smasher)

we still see massive alphas and short ttk

ghost heat did nothing but complicate the game and game balance and in the end has created MORE work for PGI.

quirks? PGI just loves to add layers of confusion on everything.

the awesome still isnt awesome (sad face ------> :( )

#22 Sigilum Sanctum

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 07:53 PM

View PostMellifluer, on 29 March 2015 - 07:49 PM, said:


um i hate to break your bubble but i still run 6 LL battlemasters all the time, hell i even have fun wiht 6ppc battlemasters just for the lulz.

ghost heat didnt to anything but make this game harder to balance in the long run. there should have just been a heat cap that prevented you from firing to many weapons at once. i mean look

shooting ac2's for ROF will explode your mech faster then almost anything, forget that ac2's are a pretty bad weapon to begin with even before ghost heat.

most clan mechs are brutally punished by ghost heat

we now have fun schemes were all lasers are bundled together, like all clan med/small lasers counting towards ghost heat

the heat bar is a lie

the heat bar is a lie

the heat bar is A LIE

there is no way to truly tell how well your mech handles heat other then using the testing grounds

the HEAT BAR IS A LIE FOR #$#$ # SAKE.

the cake is a lie.

we still see pinpoint 60 mechs even if they don't exclusively use ppcs

we still see massive lrm boats of the 60+ variety

we still see LL boats and MPL boats (banshee used to be a real smasher)

we still see massive alphas and short ttk

ghost heat did nothing but complicate the game and game balance and in the end has created MORE work for PGI.

quirks? PGI just loves to add layers of confusion on everything.

the awesome still isnt awesome (sad face ------> :( )


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#23 CocoaJin

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 08:02 PM

It ain't soooo bad now. Ghost heat wasn't the best mechanic, but it's far from the doom and gloom some want to make it out to be. The thing is, people are going to specialize, there is no getting around that...it makes everything easier, especially considering the limitations of our input devices for managing and operating our weapons. Nothing worse than trying to manage more than 2-3 weapon groups on a mouse, especially with 5 possible weapon mounting locations and the potential to have multiple weapons of varying effective ranges mounted in any of these locations, plus the possibility some might be hit scan, some might be projectile...making a flexible mech can make for an inefficient mech.

Then alphas...no matter what people will alpha if they have the heat...it don't matter if they have 3 hard points or 8 or more...we alpha because there is no chance to hit dice roll for each weapon mount. We can't regulate player behavior...only encourage/discourage it thought incentives and disincentives.

#24 Nothing Whatsoever

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 08:35 PM

Hehe.



And for something completely different!

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#25 Fate 6

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 08:44 PM

View PostReitrix, on 29 March 2015 - 05:59 PM, said:

I'm all for deleting weapon quirks and giving out ONLY defensive Armor/Structure Quirks to make up for hitboxes that are bad due to artwork.

And fix heat XD

Because that's really worked so well for the Zeus and Grasshopper...

#26 PurpleNinja

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 09:22 PM

I miss the 6 PPC Stalker.

#27 STEF_

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 09:33 PM

2 cent:

introducing ghost heat, and then stupid OP quirks that overtake ghostheat "rule" is ______ <---- "fill empty spaces" with a proper and nice adjective, describing how PGI undestand the game and how PGI manage to handle it properly.

#28 lsp

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 09:37 PM

View PostDjPush, on 29 March 2015 - 04:56 PM, said:

You mean when they didn't have quirk or nerf a weapon every month? Back when people played what they want and had fun with it. Then no, not really. All I remember are the PPC and Gauss pop tarts.

No you see a lot more variety and not just one or two mechs with the same load out.

In pug matches maybe. Not anywhere else, end game players will always play the same select few mechs. Just like any other game, they will use the same few weapons, or the same few gear sets, same few vehicles. It's called the meta, and every game has it, get over it. The current meta is no different than when we had ppc poptarts, just the select few mechs have changed, and now everyone boats lasers. Metamechs.com if you want to see the meta, hint t1 are all clan mechs.(competitive teams are all clan)

#29 Taffer

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 10:33 PM

Ghost heat is lame. Talk about a bullshit way of balancing your game, quirks too. It really says a lot about this game that they wound up doing ghost heat and quirks. Why not balance the weapons and heat better, or have hardpoint restrictions?

I'm almost afraid to even buy mechs anymore because everything has been changing so much. Up to 100mil cbills now; most I've ever had at once.


Ps. I'm still super happy that poptarts are gone. They made me give up on the game for a long time. Poptarting teams were the worst gameplay.

#30 XX Sulla XX

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 10:35 PM

Honestly the state of the game is pretty good at the moment. Most matches are mid and short range. With quirks you have many viable mechs. It is a lot better than it was before.

#31 Karl Streiger

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 10:52 PM

View PostXX Sulla XX, on 29 March 2015 - 10:35 PM, said:

Honestly the state of the game is pretty good at the moment. Most matches are mid and short range. With quirks you have many viable mechs. It is a lot better than it was before.


It was better before quirks - maybe not better - different we had few Top chassis + a imbalanced Comparison IS vs Clan - caused by the "Tier 1 Clan Mechs" - same is current: Imbalanced caused by Tier 1 - and few IS Top Chassis - caused by Quirks.

To much stacking - you can't increase DPS and Range - both values should be indirect proportional (more DPS - less range)
You can't increase Range and reduce Heat - both values should be proportional (more range - more heat)

OK lets compare the current Stalker 4N with a Stalker featuring 6 Large Laser - before GhostHeat:
The current Stalker produces more heat - but with shorter beam duration and more range - its a "fair" trade off.
In other words the current Stalker 4N would have been perfectly balanced - before Sommer 2013.

Well at least without GhostHeat - most current builds would not get "worser" - because their limit is allready reached.

#32 XtremWarrior

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 01:21 AM

View PostKarl Streiger, on 29 March 2015 - 10:52 PM, said:

It was better before quirks - maybe not better - different we had few Top chassis + a imbalanced Comparison IS vs Clan - caused by the "Tier 1 Clan Mechs" - same is current: Imbalanced caused by Tier 1 - and few IS Top Chassis - caused by Quirks.


Well i think it's better now that people are willing to try more loadouts and variants just to give a try at quirck mastering.
What kills variety in CW is that it favors very long range fights. So instant reaching weapons like lasers are a must-have and every "comp" player will bring as many LLas in as he could.

View PostKarl Streiger, on 29 March 2015 - 10:52 PM, said:

OK lets compare the current Stalker 4N with a Stalker featuring 6 Large Laser - before GhostHeat:
The current Stalker produces more heat - but with shorter beam duration and more range - its a "fair" trade off.
In other words the current Stalker 4N would have been perfectly balanced - before Sommer 2013.

Well at least without GhostHeat - most current builds would not get "worser" - because their limit is allready reached.


Except you're comparing 6 LLasers to only 4 of them. So no, it's not balanced at all: more heat, more range and lower duration vs 50% extra damage? Maybe i just missed your point but there's no way this could be seen as balanced.

Also:


View PostRoboPatton, on 29 March 2015 - 04:26 PM, said:

That 6ppc stalker tho...


View PostPurpleNinja, on 29 March 2015 - 09:22 PM, said:

6 PPC Stalker.


i sure don't miss that

Edited by XtremWarrior, 30 March 2015 - 01:27 AM.


#33 Raggedyman

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 03:43 AM

Solution - each mech can only carry one weapon of each type (laser, missile, ballistics. Though frankly there isn't that much difference between an AC round and a missile other than the arc if you think about it, so possibly just one laser and either a missile or a ballistic). Should they carry any more then they have "BOAT!!!" branded on the side of their mech, be shunned by all players if meet in the street, and automatically lose of matches for not knowing what they are doing.

Edited by Raggedyman, 30 March 2015 - 03:45 AM.


#34 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 03:46 AM

View PostRoboPatton, on 29 March 2015 - 04:26 PM, said:

That 6ppc stalker tho...

I loved killing them with just 2 LRM20s.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 31 March 2015 - 04:58 AM.


#35 Shredhead

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 04:08 AM

Oh my, what a smug and witty post full of bullshit. I just wonder what would have happened without ghost heat, and without the quirks. Oh, I know. We'd have so much more diversity now.
I mean, who needs diversity or so. Only some liberals, I guess.

#36 Karl Streiger

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 04:23 AM

want diversity?
what MWO need is a RQG Random Quirk Generator - anytime you logg in - the RQG generates a new set of quirks for any of your builds :D :lol: - for max XP i suggest to add the RQG with the RHSG - (random heat scale generator) that calculates - the max number and penalty for heatscale.

See the benefit?
Today you may get the "Disable Heat" - "unlimited range" Quickdraw with 6 Large Laser - but tomorrow you may get the 1 Weapon 100 HeatScale AC 2 BlackJack

#37 Rhaythe

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 04:35 AM

In other news, gamers are gamers, and will min/max any system in place to their best advantage in order to win.

(+1 for snark, OP)

#38 The Ratfink

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 04:45 AM

I think balance is the best its ever been. TTK is good too, I would like to see more structure on all mechs and implemented crits. I Don't play competitive or CW so mainly speaking about under hive and groups.

I think the only way to get rid of ghost heat will be to lower heat thresholds and increase heat dissipation. Make Double and Single heat sinks specialist for one or the other, so you build for either alpha or dps. This would reward balanced builds too.

While your at it have ferrous fibrous increased armour too and give a reason to take it.

#39 Alistair Winter

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 05:29 AM

I agree game balance is pretty good. Best its ever been? I don't know. Possibly. But in all seriousness, I do think it would have been better to change heat mechanics from the ground up, introduce more penalties for running hot, and nerf the best mechs in the game. Instead, PGI implemented extreme amounts of quirks to make every other mech match the holy trinity and thus lower TTK significantly.

Game balance may be better than it was, but the low TTK is a major concern for me, because slow, methodical combat is one of the major characteristics of Mechwarrior for me. And in CW, I'm not seeing the abundance of different builds people are talking about. Laservomit is alive and well.

Anyway, the OP was meant primarily as satire. And satire shouldn't always be taken so seriously.

#40 keith

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 05:33 AM

lets be honest about something. ghost heat balanced the 8v8 meta, once 12v12 came out anything ghost heat did was null and void. there was now 50% more fire power on the field. ghost heat purpose was to limit alpha strikes per say. once u have more mechs on the field the amount of damage that can be applied to a mech at once is increased. now i'm not for increasing ghost heat, just something else should be done.





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