172 replies to this topic

[Mirkk Defwode]

KraftySOT, on 30 March 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

Truth. But also why CW is flawed.

I also have friends, but I don't have 12 friends that want to play CW because it isn't very fun for us. Typically I play in a group of 3-7 and we just opt to do the group queue because it has more variety with a fairly low wait time.

[Davers]

Apnu, on 30 March 2015 - 09:41 AM, said:

You're lucky. Of all the CW matches I've played this weekend 2/3 of them have been against 12 man groups. Weather I'm in a PUG team or full 12 man.

What border did you fight on, Attack or Defend? If you don't mind my asking.

[Cabusha]

I did one drop this weekend, no more. Same problems as when I played it 2 months ago. Highly coordinated defenders VS random ******** pubs who shuffle at the gates and refuse to push.

I just don't have the patience for that kind of stupidity.

[Romeo Deluxe]

Apnu brings up some good points except this intensity business. Intensity will come from what you do to yourself or if you join a group that is intense for the game. Either you share in that intensity or you reject it to find another group. I personally go solo because the only intensity I accept is the self-imposed one.

I will grow tired of CW more because of the game modes and map than anything. I think you are right, that the maps and modes of the public matches should be incorporated to some degree into the CW.

[sdsnowbum]

Apnu, on 30 March 2015 - 09:41 AM, said:

Because of all that I wish PGI had incorporated public queue games into the umbrella of CW. The kinds of games the public queue offers (quick to find, quick to have) should involve the IS map some how. Yes we're getting 4v4, but that's going to be as intense and competitive as Invasion/Counter Attack. Not fun-fun, but intense-fun and casuals will continue to not apply.

What do you mean by 'involve the IS map some how'. Do you mean having the effects of a 'casual' match potentially flip planets? That seems like it would just randomize the CW map. It would really screw over people who DO care about the map, in by reducing the impact of their actions and strategy.

I think it WOULD be neat to let people play CW-style matches without impacting the IS map. Then there would be less pressure, more casual play, etc.

The big danger is that maybe everyone would go for casual play and 'map play' would become even emptier than it is now.

Edited by sdsnowbum, 30 March 2015 - 10:03 AM.

[Romeo Deluxe]

Instead of 4 drop decks maybe just the 1 or 2 drops. Bring those maps from public, make them a little bit bigger, retooled for CW. 15 minutes limit? 20 or just go 30 minutes? Have them impact the map somehow, example it affects it a lot less % per match or something like that. Less LP reward for those. I barely know anything about Battletech universe so others may have better solid ideas.

[Apnu]

Davers, on 30 March 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

What border did you fight on, Attack or Defend? If you don't mind my asking.

Davion borders, and where the team asks me to to. This weekend its been Kurita, Marik and Liao.

[Apnu]

sdsnowbum, on 30 March 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

What do you mean by 'involve the IS map some how'. Do you mean having the effects of a 'casual' match potentially flip planets? That seems like it would just randomize the CW map. It would really screw over people who DO care about the map, in by reducing the impact of their actions and strategy.

I think it WOULD be neat to let people play CW-style matches without impacting the IS map. Then there would be less pressure, more casual play, etc.

The big danger is that maybe everyone would go for casual play and 'map play' would become even emptier than it is now.

I said "somehow" specifically to leave it open for the community to discuss. I've heard of a lot of ideas for that.

It could be that after a planet is flipped by Invasion/Counter Attack it goes into a period of "reinforcing" that's where the PUGs/group queue have 1 wave games on that planet for some small part of a shard. Then if enough shards are flipped, the planet becomes available for another attack cycle of Invasion. If the invading faction wins, they flip the planet.

Another idea is to use solo/group games to gather resources (through combat) so the faction can make another Invasion attack on some planet.

Stuff like that, but notice how I'm keeping the "serious" games from the "casual" games while giving the casual games some meaning besides dreading Viridian Bog every 4th match.

As for your "big danger" we already did that when CW launched. Then everybody bailed on CW when they say that it was not complete and it exposed the huge mech imbalances that exist right now. People are only back in CW because there's a free mech at the end of the rainbow.

Edited by Apnu, 30 March 2015 - 11:02 AM.

[Novawrecker]

I hear ya, Original Poster. But this weekend was a HUGE eyeopener for many PUGers. Many caught on and adapted quickly to get organized and play smarter. Others faced horrible destruction at the hand of experienced teams or organized players, and they were affected in the following ways: They either woke up and realized they need to step up their game (and stood up to the challenge! Major Kudos to these players), came to the fearful conclusion that this was way out of their league and either stepped away at peace back to PUG-land or stormed off crying murder and unfairness, never to play CW again.

I hope to see more of the first: It good to have players want to step up their game and the diversity of a larger, more competitive, player base.

Edited by Novawrecker, 30 March 2015 - 11:56 AM.

[Deck of Many Things]

sycocys, on 30 March 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:

I can tell you that at least in the FRR the quality of pugs has been pretty solid, lot of people that wanted to learn CW alongside a lot of people that were willing to be patient and teach and it has been a working out pretty darn well.

Then again our players don't tend to berate the newbies either, so that probably makes a huge difference as well.

Here's a really good point. The last CW game I was in, a player (in a unit) went, "lol lurm noobs." And I, quite frankly, dropped what I was doing to write back, "Yeah, let's discourage new users from learning the game and becoming part of the revenue stream. Who needs new development?"

Because that's what it boils down to for all you Mister Attitude-Pants'es out there.

Copping that crusty attitude of "arrarrarr newfangled youngsters, get off my lawn and don't make me throw my teeth at you for sassin" isn't going to help the community gain or retain new users, especially since some people seem rather contemptuous of newcomers but, at the same time, want more people in so they can have more games.

As for me, I'm pretty new at CW, having avoided it for a while. I'll probably saunter over to FRR territory and see if the ugly rumors about good treatment are true.

Edited by Erich Hagen, 30 March 2015 - 12:06 PM.

[Barkem Squirrel]

I like the new blood into the matches. The were do we go questions and all. Then someone more experienced getting on VOIP and directing the team. I watched this again and again. IS beating Clan teams.

It really made playing CW more enjoyable.

First thinking well we have a few new players on the team and after wow, we won 48 to 22 against a clan opponent.

[mekabuser]

Davers, on 30 March 2015 - 09:37 AM, said:

CW just works better when there are a lot of people playing. The more pugs/small units on, the more you will fight pugs and small units. In my last 20 matches I have only faced one 12 man, and only had one large (7+) unit on my side. The rest have been pugs and small units vs the same. Lots of very fun matches.

pug v pug in cw is great.12 v 12 is fun too, but not quite as much as pug.

[Davers]

mekabuser, on 30 March 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

pug v pug in cw is great.12 v 12 is fun too, but not quite as much as pug.

Best part is when a player steps up and takes charge. Win or lose, it's always fun to see everyone working together.

[RussianWolf]

Novawrecker, on 30 March 2015 - 11:15 AM, said:

I hear ya, Original Poster. But this weekend was a HUGE eyeopener for many PUGers. Many caught on and adapted quickly to get organized and play smarter. Others faced horrible destruction at the hand of experienced teams or organized players, and they were affected in the following ways: They either woke up and realized they need to step up their game (and stood up to the challenge! Major Kudos to these players), came to the fearful conclusion that this was way out of their league and either stepped away at peace back to PUG-land or stormed off crying murder and unfairness, never to play CW again.

I hope to see more of the first: It good to have players want to step up their game and the diversity of a larger, more competitive, player base.

Or 4) they decided that this wasn't what they were interested in.

I'm not a competitive player. I don't like running uberquirked 1 trick ponies. I play the game for fun. And I like to see variety.

in CW see mostly competitive players running those Uberquirked 1 trick pony builds (usually the same half a dozen chassis) and as just said, very little variety.

Not my thing. I can and do run with some of the best players in the game, but adding stress into this from being super competitive isn't for me.

I didn't play a single CW match this weekend. Why? I am in a unit that can muster a 12 man when we want. We have both a competitive team that is upper tier from my understanding and a CW team that gets called on for alliances from the top teams. So I could have played CW and played with great players. But it's not my thing.

So don't assume that because someone doesn't want to play a mode that it's "Out of their league"

Edited by RussianWolf, 30 March 2015 - 12:43 PM.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Tom Sawyer, on 30 March 2015 - 06:31 AM, said:

As the latest tournament draws to a close I wonder if a lot of the players who played CW only for the free mech will return to pug land.

If this is true I call upon you to keep playing CW!

If you got pug stomped and it left a bad taste FIND A TEAM! you can profess to be a merc, a house loyalist, a clanner it does not matter. WIth good voice coms and players willing to band together and learn you can have some ever better games!

What does matter is this past weekend we saw planets with 99+ defenders and attackers. We had games with 12 man teams vs 12 man teams. We had pug stomps. We had GAMES and not ghost drops.

Lets keep this ball rolling

no i wont join a group and no i dont like playing against the supposed "elite" all i see from groups (clan wise anyway) is laser vomit and focus fire.

clap...clap...clap.... congrats you get the award for the must dumb downed ******** gameplay ever. really i seriously question whether groups care about anything but that match score. yesterday out of the 13ish games i played 11 of them were against an organized group while my whole team never had anything larger then a 4 man and most of the time it was just random pugs.

i dont care for the group playstyle of waiting to focus fire the first victim who peaks his head out. I love playing with pugs because its LIKE AN ACTUAL BATTLE with chaos and mechs running everywhere, the ability to find a lone target to brawl against without KNOWING 5 of his buddies are just gonna laser you down.

again you want a cookie? you dont get a cookie you know why because your BAD players. bad for the community and bad in general. the amount of strikes and just sheer laser vomit from some of these groups is just sickening. and so is this stupid idea that CW is for "groups only". i havent pumped over $1000 into this game to be TOLD i have to join a group to have fun.

really most groups i see just reduce combat to the smallest common denominator of focus fire+laser vomit. again clap.... clap.... clap..... i hope you enjoy it when the pugs stop playing and you cant find any easy wins anymore.

[Davers]

Mellifluer, on 30 March 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

no i wont join a group and no i dont like playing against the supposed "elite" all i see from groups (clan wise anyway) is laser vomit and focus fire.

clap...clap...clap.... congrats you get the award for the must dumb downed ******** gameplay ever. really i seriously question whether groups care about anything but that match score. yesterday out of the 13ish games i played 11 of them were against an organized group while my whole team never had anything larger then a 4 man and most of the time it was just random pugs.

i dont care for the group playstyle of waiting to focus fire the first victim who peaks his head out. I love playing with pugs because its LIKE AN ACTUAL BATTLE with chaos and mechs running everywhere, the ability to find a lone target to brawl against without KNOWING 5 of his buddies are just gonna laser you down.

again you want a cookie? you dont get a cookie you know why because your BAD players. bad for the community and bad in general. the amount of strikes and just sheer laser vomit from some of these groups is just sickening. and so is this stupid idea that CW is for "groups only". i havent pumped over $1000 into this game to be TOLD i have to join a group to have fun.

really most groups i see just reduce combat to the smallest common denominator of focus fire+laser vomit. again clap.... clap.... clap..... i hope you enjoy it when the pugs stop playing and you cant find any easy wins anymore.

If you are interested in 1v1 fights, then CW is probably not for you (as it currently is). The situations you describe (and seem to enjoy) happen purely because of lack of communication.

Maybe when they add the 4v4 CW matches it will be more to your taste.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Davers, on 30 March 2015 - 01:12 PM, said:

If you are interested in 1v1 fights, then CW is probably not for you (as it currently is). The situations you describe (and seem to enjoy) happen purely because of lack of communication.

Maybe when they add the 4v4 CW matches it will be more to your taste.

no CW is for everyone otherwise only groups would even be able to que up for a drop. groups do have the option of finding other groups to play against and queing up on an otherwise uncontested planet (always plently of 0/0's to sync drop on).

the reality is that most large groups just want to farm easy wins. they are bad players coddled by always having 5+ team mates to shoot 1 target ya some real high level tactics there.

If they really wanted a challenge they would drop their stupid "tactics" and actually fight but no they want a war like Germany/Russia Vs Poland. ya real real leet skills it takes to slam a country from both sides with far superior technology and armies. time and time again i see them camping just waiting to hit the first idiot to peak.

again you guys want a cookie for proving that camping and focus fire works? and if thats what you think teamplay and tactics are GO FIGHT OTHER TEAMS OF THE SAME CALIBER INSTEAD OF FARMING PUGS.

teams can choose to arrange battles, pugs get whatever the wind blows at them.

[Stoned Prophet]

HARDKOR, on 30 March 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:

Either find a team or go back to solo cue. CW cannot function as any sort of long term challenge with more than half the players being pugs. Teams are the whole point of it, so stop trolling yourself and others and make some friends.

Good point, bad delivery.
6/10

[Davers]

Mellifluer, on 30 March 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

no CW is for everyone otherwise only groups would even be able to que up for a drop. groups do have the option of finding other groups to play against and queing up on an otherwise uncontested planet (always plently of 0/0's to sync drop on).

the reality is that most large groups just want to farm easy wins. they are bad players coddled by always having 5+ team mates to shoot 1 target ya some real high level tactics there.

If they really wanted a challenge they would drop their stupid "tactics" and actually fight but no they want a war like Germany/Russia Vs Poland. ya real real leet skills it takes to slam a country from both sides with far superior technology and armies. time and time again i see them camping just waiting to hit the first idiot to peak.

again you guys want a cookie for proving that camping and focus fire works? and if thats what you think teamplay and tactics are GO FIGHT OTHER TEAMS OF THE SAME CALIBER INSTEAD OF FARMING PUGS.

teams can choose to arrange battles, pugs get whatever the wind blows at them.

Doesn't the fact that their "tactics" work better than yours tell you something? Focused fire wins battles, in CW and in Public queues. It seems like you are the one who should be setting up private 1v1 matches.

[sycocys]

Davers, on 30 March 2015 - 01:42 PM, said:

Doesn't the fact that their "tactics" work better than yours tell you something? Focused fire wins battles, in CW and in Public queues. It seems like you are the one who should be setting up private 1v1 matches.

True story Mellifluer, honestly if you've been playing with people in the IS whose only tactic is to stand back and wait for the clanners to push on them I think I know what the problem is and why you likely don't enjoy the mode.

That or you haven't actually played the mode and just believe its only meta builds and hide-n-seek because you read it on the internet.

Do many people run meta builds? For sure. Do just as many run whatever they like running? Absolutely. Can't speak for the other houses, but the FRR fights the clan. These guys are more than willing to jump in their faces and try to shred them off, but alas we do employ tactics and teamwork to make these situations possible.

The cool part I think is that before long players that want the tactic-less game aren't going to find it even in standard matches because a lot of players that did join in on the event learned just how much more effective it is to work as a team. So whether or not you like that kind of play it's on its way over to pugland.

I want a FFA mode myself, total mayhem! No tactics, just drop in and be the last mech alive. Thing is it would completely turn off the easy mode for low elo players when they can't rely on 11 others to pick up their slack and get them some wins.

Edited by sycocys, 30 March 2015 - 02:10 PM.