54 replies to this topic

[sycocys]

Please kindly take it to a faction that doesn't enjoy it's hard fought reputation of fighting their opponents.

The only thing you accomplish is taking nodes and wasting people's time, and the nodes are valueless if we don't plunder the clanners protecting them.

We really don't need the light rush brigade here, our opponents come for a fight and respect our players for the fights we give them.

[Klappspaten]

sycocys, on 01 April 2015 - 07:28 PM, said:

Please kindly take it to a faction that doesn't enjoy it's hard fought reputation of fighting their opponents.

The only thing you accomplish is taking nodes and wasting people's time, and the nodes are valueless if we don't plunder the clanners protecting them.

We really don't need the light rush brigade here, our opponents come for a fight and respect our players for the fights we give them.

Sorry but I have to disagree.

Yes, light rushes are tedious at best, nobody likes them, not even the folks that use them. But they have to remain in the inventory of tactics that we use, simply because they are incredibly useful. Let me give you an example.

My units often does a light rush in the first drop, even when we want to go for attrition. We go in over the gates and take out the generators, most of the times even bring some damage on omega. This forces the defenders to remain in the area around omega and severely limits their freedom of movement. What has been a hard target that could have been defended indirectly is now a soft target that needs direct defense.
We then use this advantage to bring two very heavy drops, the second of which consists only of assaults and most of the time we don't even need the fourth wave. The need to defend omega directly harms the defenders objective more that 12 lost mechs would.
Furthermore, if we come in the situation that we have to rush to take omega before the time runs out or before we are wiped out, it makes things a lot easier when omega is already open and hurt.

Another time when lightrushes are of use is when you just have 20 minutes left and you really need those two wins to take that planet. Even if the first light rush does not manage to take out omega, a second one just after that will do so, and that in far less than 10 minutes, enough time to drop again and get another match.

I understand that you dislike lightrushes, I don't really like doing them myself that often, but we have to face the reality that we will probably fight against overwhelming numbers all the time. Right now we have a lot of mercs, but those guys will leave eventually and then we are back to the long retreat.
We need to facilitate every tactic that promises success if we want the FRR to remain a force in CW. Limiting ourselves just because some forum warriors start whining again is plain stupid.

P.s.: With forum warrior I do not mean you, again, I understand your concern and I hope I could make you see why lightrushes should remain in our inventory. Not to use them all the time, but to realize when they are necessary.

Edited by Klappspaten, 01 April 2015 - 08:01 PM.

[Molossian Dog]

A Light Rush is one tool.
A well stocked toolbox has quite a lot of tools.
And a good craftsman knows each one´s purpose.

That being said, I can´t even remember when I saw it being used recently.

[ManaValkyrie]

As the others have stated above, the light rush is one tool in the arsenal that the IS currently has.

The light rush can be used in a multitude of ways other than zerg wins. For example, units I have run with have used them first wave to take the gens out, knock omega down some (which as previously stated then pushes the defender into a much narrow set of defense options) and then go for crippling enemy defenders. The light rush wave is also very effective as a first wave in counter/hold territory as the defender, you position your forces in ambush, slip in behind the enemy assault wave and go for the crippling/killing.

*In fact in one match I have played holding territory, we actually wiped out a 12 man assault wave consisting of DWF,TBR, HBR and SCR's.* Even if you don't wipe the entire wave out, the loss of 12 lights for the killing and damage to an assault wave is more than worth the loss.

[Divine Retribution]

Read Molossian's post, now I can't help myself because the setup was too good...

Light rushers are tools.
Some people only have multiple versions of the same basic tool, perhaps because they don't have the skill for more complex tools.
A good craftsman doesn't take shortcuts. A good craftsman puts in the time and effort to make something he can be proud of.

I've never been in a drop where the FRR pilots were tools. A couple of times people have suggested it and the suggestion usually came alongside of a "It's the only way I've beaten the clans attacking". So far those players have always been persuaded to kill clanners. It's a big reason why I'm willing to play CW and stay FRR.... it still has some class. It's like I'm wearing a suit and tie to a stereotypical commune.

If I'm ever in a group that wants to sully themselves with a light rush, I won't help. This is a game and the light rush isn't fun to me. Would rather have a solid loss than a hollow win. Also, I don't want to get compost all over my suit. But again, a few hundred CW matches (guessing based on the 37 over the weekend) in and no light rush undertaken by the team.



Edit and shameless plug: Oh right, I won't say if you want to light rush go to another faction. The FRR needs every body it can get. Just if you want to light rush don't drop with OLD.

If you never want to be pressured into light rushing, are 25+, and have a sense of humor, OLD might be the unit for you. All skill levels welcome, super casual environment, no commitement required. It's a "whenever you happen to be on, drop with the group if you want", or "pugging with friends" environment. We have a room in the FRR hub but are more likely to be on Raidcall, room id 4913355. Most active during NA primetime.

Weekend CW results (that I was a part of): 34 - 3, no gen rushes.
Pardon the rambling, getting tired.

Edited by Divine Retribution, 02 April 2015 - 04:30 AM.

[Molossian Dog]

I would strongly suggest to leave the whole "telling others what they should consider fun" thing to other factions.

They have more experience with it anyways.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 02 April 2015 - 04:33 AM.

[Divine Retribution]

Didn't tell anyone what they should consider fun. I just posted what I don't consider fun. If rushing is fun for others, they should go have fun. They should just be aware that what is fun for them isn't fun for me and that I wouldn't rush with them, which is exactly what I posted.

Sometimes versions of fun collide.

Edited by Divine Retribution, 02 April 2015 - 04:36 AM.

[Molossian Dog]

No offense intended, but terms like "sully themselves" and "XY are tools" sound a lot like a general value judgement instead of "not my cup of tea."

Besides, I haven´t seen one in ages. So I wonder why this is even a topic.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 02 April 2015 - 04:39 AM.

[eSeifer]

The light rush is a proven tactic that works against the clans. It is also a tactic written in lore utilized by specific Kuritan leaders.

Don't like the tactic, don't use it.

[Divine Retribution]

Was just trying to parody your first post with the first part of my post. The sullying was just playing off the suit I was wearing a sentence earlier. Maybe it didn't come off as well as I'd hoped, my fault for posting when I'm half asleep. I can see how I came off as judgmental, no insult intended.

Guess it also shows a slight difference in objectives. I'm here to kill clanners, taking planets is the byproduct. Others may want to take planets, killing clanners (or rushing) is simply a means to an end.

Edited by Divine Retribution, 02 April 2015 - 04:51 AM.

[Averen]

Molossian Dog, on 02 April 2015 - 02:27 AM, said:

A Light Rush is one tool.
A well stocked toolbox has quite a lot of tools.
And a good craftsman knows each one´s purpose.

That being said, I can´t even remember when I saw it being used recently.

Heard him guys, Rasalhague is full of tools.

[Tarogato]

I abhor light rushes. I firmly believe the FRR should abstain from this tactic. We're better than that.

[Klappspaten]

this is deteriorating into a whine thread, stop it guys you made your points, no need to start bitching

[Divine Retribution]

Averen, on 02 April 2015 - 04:54 AM, said:

Heard him guys, Rasalhague is full of tools.

I bring 4 tools to every match! Every now and again I wish I could have fit 5 in the toolbox....

[Mi Ro Ki]

Sometimes we all have to do things we don't like. But we do it for the bigger picture .. I would really like to dabble alot more but i think i've said my thoughts here.

[Divine Retribution]

Klappspaten, on 02 April 2015 - 05:00 AM, said:

this is deteriorating into a whine thread, stop it guys you made your points, no need to start bitching

I think we're all adults here. We should be able to discuss points of contention without getting feelings hurt. Also I see a lot of opinions but not much in the way of whining.

[sycocys]

I don't see the point in wasting a match of 24 peoples time, vastly reducing EVERYONE'S earnings for the sake of winning a node to take a planet that has next to no functional use in the game.

Doing it for slightly expanded territory while PGI directs your lanes simply doesn't make the loss in rewards and respect from our opponents who come here seeking good fights worth the use of this tactic.

This is one thing I will disagree with Divine on clearly, but I don't believe we need the pilots who simply light rush for wins in the FRR.

[Divine Retribution]

I think the FRR might lose a little respect from teams rushing but I think most players look for names and units over faction affiliation. I know I do.

Some players/units have my respect and we chat in-game, some players/units are shown much less respect and simply killed as brutally or efficiently (depending on the circumstances) as possible. I don't really have much of a view of entire factions, except that all clan factions must be destroyed. I imagine many other players have a similar hierarchy of recognizing players in a game... Names they recognize, units they recognize, then the faction. Some they like, some they don't.

On the plus side I don't think many FRR drops are rushes, probably not enough to really impact the general view players have of the FRR.

Edited by Divine Retribution, 02 April 2015 - 05:59 AM.

[Klappspaten]

If people really want to lose the respect they might have for me as an drop commander just because I use a tactic that is successful they can go ahead. I do not do this for the respect of the people I play against.

First of all, as a drop commander I owe my team that I use every tool I have to win the match, if a light rush is what I have to do to achieve that, a light rush is what I order. But in my view there are two kinds of light rush.

The first is to prepare the enemy for a proper attack, as I said in my first post, taking out the generators severely limits the other teams capabilities to react to my attack. On the other hand I am able, given the right map, to harass the **** out of them, you wouldn't believe the havoc 12 ER LL Ravens can wreak.
There are several ways to attack and weaken a defending force, damage is only one of those.

The other kind of a light rush is to go for the generators and omega in order to finish the game quickly. I try to avoid doing this. If necessary it is a simple tactic that does not need a lot of practice, but is effective nonetheless. But if done to often it is really bad for the skill of the team. In the long run it limits the skill of my team considerably.

[eSeifer]

sycocys, on 02 April 2015 - 05:36 AM, said:

I don't see the point in wasting a match of 24 peoples time, vastly reducing EVERYONE'S earnings for the sake of winning a node to take a planet that has next to no functional use in the game.

Doing it for slightly expanded territory while PGI directs your lanes simply doesn't make the loss in rewards and respect from our opponents who come here seeking good fights worth the use of this tactic.

This is one thing I will disagree with Divine on clearly, but I don't believe we need the pilots who simply light rush for wins in the FRR.

I would like you to write out a full strat, per map, explaining to me and my unit on how a FRR loyalist should run a proper strat.

This thread has become a straight out bash to anyone assisting the FRR that uses any variety of a "light strat" which very few include straight killing omega and giving no points.

After your done with your strat explanation I would then like a 3 paragraph apology to every unit that has come to assist you when you were down to 3 worlds.