54 replies to this topic

[Divine Retribution]

Divine Retribution, on 02 April 2015 - 05:29 AM, said:

We should be able to discuss points of contention without getting feelings hurt.

I was mistaken.

[Mi Ro Ki]

Not sure if i see feelings in these posts. You'll have to quote them out for us. Otherwise Seifer has made some very good valid and more logical points.

[Sky Ferrix]

Was a victim of an ACES light rush recently. They took all 3 gens and got Omega down to its last sliver of health, then ignored the gun and gave us a fun little skirmish that lasted two more attack waves. When things got a little dicey for them, they finished the gun off. Wasn't sure if they were just being cool or trying to snag Cbills, but either way it ended up being a pretty fun round.

I mean, yeah, it's frustrating...but a tactic's a tactic I s'pose.

[Amsro]

eSeifer, on 02 April 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

I would like you to write out a full strat, per map, explaining to me and my unit on how a FRR loyalist should run a proper strat.

All CW maps play out essentially the same, bring your tonnage (Assaults and Heavies), push into the gate of choice and grind em down until you have killed off 2 waves.

Whenever your team dies (almost) always regroup before going back to battle, never want to waste a fresh mech reinforcing soon to be dead team mates. If you happen to be one of the few left from a previous wave take down what you can.

Once your team has achieved a kill lead of 20+, then you can proceed to zerg around killing as you please.

Essential for first drop;

-1 or 2 ECM
-Max tonnage everyone else
-No solo rambo

eSeifer, on 02 April 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

This thread has become a straight out bash to anyone assisting the FRR that uses any variety of a "light strat" which very few include straight killing omega and giving no points.

I do feel that Sycosys made this thread in a fit of rage.

I can say from (limited) experience that light rushes are easy as hell. But the lack of C-bills at the end of match screen makes it a moot point for me.

Using a light wave to kill the gens and sliver omega is a commendable tactic, but you have just wasted all your "quick reinforcement" mechs in one wave. Having a light or fast mech that you can get back into the battle with is valuable when you have been killed early in a wave.

Light Rush to me implies winning with the lights rushing to end the match. This is actually a wise tactic as this ensures you get an attack and not a counter attack. (Great for taking planets quickly)

But this is different from a Light Strategy forcing the enemy into a defensive position.

eSeifer, on 02 April 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

After your done with your strat explanation I would then like a 3 paragraph apology to every unit that has come to assist you when you were down to 3 worlds.

Pretty sure the only "units" left when we were down to 2 planets are the same ones that are still here now and have been here for all the loss of planets.

The main reason FRR has taken so many planets this weekend is due to our glorious pugs increasing the FRR pilot numbers to give us the drop advantage, very rarely did I fight a counter attack this past weekend, almost always an attack and a win.

Klappspaten, on 01 April 2015 - 08:01 PM, said:

Yes, light rushes are tedious at best, nobody likes them, not even the folks that use them.

Indeed, I don't like em and truly haven't needed them. (first wave to kill omega and win)

Kill em all, thats what space vikings do!!

eSeifer, on 02 April 2015 - 04:45 AM, said:

The light rush is a proven tactic that works against the clans. It is also a tactic written in lore utilized by specific Kuritan leaders.

Don't like the tactic, don't use it.

Light rush works against anyone, even 12 pugs could light rush if they all have a JJ light. Zerg the gens, ax omega, win.

CW would be quite comical if EVERYONE did it.

Still in it for the C-Bills. Space poor for life, damn mech-a-holic.

Edited by Amsro, 02 April 2015 - 03:40 PM.

[Klappspaten]

Amsro, on 02 April 2015 - 03:29 PM, said:

All CW maps play out essentially the same, bring your tonnage (Assaults and Heavies), push into the gate of choice and grind em down until you have killed off 2 waves.

Whenever your team dies (almost) always regroup before going back to battle, never want to waste a fresh mech reinforcing soon to be dead team mates. If you happen to be one of the few left from a previous wave take down what you can.

Once your team has achieved a kill lead of 20+, then you can proceed to zerg around killing as you please.

Essential for first drop;

-1 or 2 ECM
-Max tonnage everyone else
-No solo rambo



I do feel that Sycosys made this thread in a fit of rage.

I can say from (limited) experience that light rushes are easy as hell. But the lack of C-bills at the end of match screen makes it a moot point for me.

Using a light wave to kill the gens and sliver omega is a commendable tactic, but you have just wasted all your "quick reinforcement" mechs in one wave. Having a light or fast mech that you can get back into the battle with is valuable when you have been killed early in a wave.

Light Rush to me implies winning with the lights rushing to end the match. This is actually a wise tactic as this ensures you get an attack and not a counter attack. (Great for taking planets quickly)

But this is different from a Light Strategy forcing the enemy into a defensive position.


Pretty sure the only "units" left when we were down to 2 planets are the same ones that are still here now and have been here for all the loss of planets.

The main reason FRR has taken so many planets this weekend is due to our glorious pugs increasing the FRR pilot numbers to give us the drop advantage, very rarely did I fight a counter attack this past weekend, almost always an attack and a win.


Indeed, I don't like em and truly haven't needed them. (first wave to kill omega and win)

Kill em all, thats what space vikings do!!


Light rush works against anyone, even 12 pugs could light rush if they all have a JJ light. Zerg the gens, ax omega, win.

CW would be quite comical if EVERYONE did it.

Still in it for the C-Bills. Space poor for life, damn mech-a-holic.

Thats wrong.
Bringing an assault drop, or max weight in the first wave is a waste. If you really want to bring those assaults to bear you bring them in second wave, where the maximum of armor and firepower that you can bring goes against an weakened defending team.
If it works just right you can dominate the whole match and kill all 48 enemy mechs with only two waves, especially on sulfuric, where you can control the whole base with 12 assaults.

[Amsro]

Klappspaten, on 02 April 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

Thats wrong.
Bringing an assault drop, or max weight in the first wave is a waste. If you really want to bring those assaults to bear you bring them in second wave, where the maximum of armor and firepower that you can bring goes against an weakened defending team.
If it works just right you can dominate the whole match and kill all 48 enemy mechs with only two waves, especially on sulfuric, where you can control the whole base with 12 assaults.

LOL you are trying to hard in this thread, I'm not wrong, its worked literally HUNDREDS of times, in fact everytime we drop this is it.

You come into this thread defending a tactic that you don't use/like and then tell others they are wrong.

Klappspaten, on 01 April 2015 - 08:01 PM, said:

Yes, light rushes are tedious at best, nobody likes them, not even the folks that use them.

I'm not just guessing in my previous post, eSeifer asked for details and I gave them, how can I be wrong with my tried and tested tactics?

Edited by Amsro, 02 April 2015 - 04:24 PM.

[Klappspaten]

Easy, your tactic could be better.

[Amsro]

Klappspaten, on 02 April 2015 - 04:38 PM, said:

Easy, your tactic could be better.

The results we get disagree, on top of that your tactic requires all players to have at least one light mech. This requires your unit to use the same type of drop deck, I prefer not to dictate any limits to drop decks.

3 heavies and a medium is common in our unit, not going to be too many "light" rushes with that.

This thread is directed to those that win matches in 2-4 minutes in light rushes. That is a light rush, everything else isn't.

Also, don't act all high and mighty, mr. perfect tactics.

Edited by Amsro, 02 April 2015 - 04:54 PM.

[0rionsbane]

I agree that the light rush is a cheeze tactic that I will largely ignore, also I'm sure its on the table for several nerfs. But it is still a valid tactic at this point in the game, mostly because pgi is rather slow to change their game mode meaningfully in response to it.

Now as to its effectiveness, what dose the clanner feel after he lost in the first wave taking almost no damage and unable to hit laggy firestarters. He dosent really feel humiliated or discouraged he just feels the game is unbalanced and laggy. this discourages players from wanting to play long term. the same can be said for the is pilot using this tactic they will get bored of it, its boring and has a low reward as the actual planet conquest system really gives you nothing at this point.

A far more effective strategy is to play the game with out the light rush and dominate the enemy, we have the firepower advantage and have for a while there is no need to use a light rush. its far more demoralizing to the clans and promotes the game more to use your larger mechs and beat the crap out of them.

So really when we talk about the light rush its about the same as talking about that locust that ran off and powered down in your skirmish match. no one likes him no one respects him but he will continue to be in the game because it has a lot of tactical holes left to fill.

[Sandersson Jankins]

0rionsbane, on 02 April 2015 - 05:08 PM, said:

I agree that the light rush is a cheeze tactic that I will largely ignore, also I'm sure its on the table for several nerfs. But it is still a valid tactic at this point in the game, mostly because pgi is rather slow to change their game mode meaningfully in response to it.

Now as to its effectiveness, what dose the clanner feel after he lost in the first wave taking almost no damage and unable to hit laggy firestarters. He dosent really feel humiliated or discouraged he just feels the game is unbalanced and laggy. this discourages players from wanting to play long term. the same can be said for the is pilot using this tactic they will get bored of it, its boring and has a low reward as the actual planet conquest system really gives you nothing at this point.

A far more effective strategy is to play the game with out the light rush and dominate the enemy, we have the firepower advantage and have for a while there is no need to use a light rush. its far more demoralizing to the clans and promotes the game more to use your larger mechs and beat the crap out of them.

So really when we talk about the light rush its about the same as talking about that locust that ran off and powered down in your skirmish match. no one likes him no one respects him but he will continue to be in the game because it has a lot of tactical holes left to fill.

In terms of lights, it has often been extremely useful to have nothing more than 1-3 lights prepared to break off and hit some gens on attack. I like this much better than a whole light rush- feels more TACTICOOL and allows for greater fun to be had from everyone, imo.

[Sjorpha]

As opposed to the non issue of who does or should play how, the FRR has a real question to answer in regards to light rushes:

Being where we are in clan space, how should we practice our defences against the upcoming Arctic cheetah rushes when we never play against the light rushes of other IS factions?

Is there is a risk we will be much more unprepared than the other factions who has continually faced each others light rushes, or are we just too badass to worry about that?

[Klappspaten]

Sjorpha, on 03 April 2015 - 04:01 AM, said:

As opposed to the non issue of who does or should play how, the FRR has a real question to answer in regards to light rushes:

Being where we are in clan space, how should we practice our defences against the upcoming Arctic cheetah rushes when we never play against the light rushes of other IS factions?

Is there is a risk we will be much more unprepared than the other factions who has continually faced each others light rushes, or are we just too badass to worry about that?

Yes, that will be a heavy punch we will be getting there.

[ClaymoreReIIik]

Sjorpha, on 03 April 2015 - 04:01 AM, said:

As opposed to the non issue of who does or should play how, the FRR has a real question to answer in regards to light rushes:

Being where we are in clan space, how should we practice our defences against the upcoming Arctic cheetah rushes when we never play against the light rushes of other IS factions?

Is there is a risk we will be much more unprepared than the other factions who has continually faced each others light rushes, or are we just too badass to worry about that?

Its not that hard. Split your team into 2 "funtional groups" the "leggers" and the "sweepers". Leggers are fast mediums and the few lights you have in the initial round. Basically the guys that will be able to keep up to a certain extent. A lot of Tbolts run upwards of 80 so they get 2 shots or something on a light before the light got away.

The Sweepers are your heavy and typically slow firepower.

Your leggers only shoot a target until it lost its first leg then they switch to the next guy. The Sweepers clean up.

That way nobody slows down or turns around to finish an opponent and you grind through the lights at good speeds.

The light rush is a lot less intimidating when only 6 of them make it to the base and are closely followed by bigger guys who mean business.

Thats how we usually do it and it works most of the time.

Edited by ClaymoreReIIik, 03 April 2015 - 04:59 AM.

[Ivan Romatovich Kerensky]

Light rushes are not just an IS thang. I've seen plenty of clan light rushes as well. Lost matches in under 3 mins before. Also have broken the light charge and forced a match too the full 30. It depends on the teams ability to change too the situation and work together.

[ExoForce]

Nice debate, I have learned a lot. I hate light rush if game is over in 4 mins (waste of time for all, low income), and also due to the fact that there is no fast clan light (for now). Light rush in latter phase is O.K by me because I want to earn C-bills and also enjoy good fight.
(Yes, I have streaks SCR, but playing other weapons I prefer more)

[CyclonerM]

Pff. Clan warriors do not need light rushes, they do Timber Wolf rushes!

Or Stormcrow rushes, very rarely..

[ExoForce]

Simple: short CW game after long wait - no fun.

[Divine Retribution]

I won't worry much about rushes after the 21st. With the change to mode selection if the clanners rush successfully we'll know that a counterattack is coming up right after, even if the clanners are queued up first. Win counterattacks and the rush means nothing. Still, it does help to stop the rush in the first place.

Also we are the ones attacking. Other players and units from around the IS, many of which have plenty of experience with light rushes because of IS vs IS conflicts, are still helping the FRR by defending it's borders. I think I've only dropped in defense 5 or so times in the last 60+ matches, after I'm sure that we've secured our attack option.

[Klappspaten]

Divine Retribution, on 03 April 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

I won't worry much about rushes after the 21st. With the change to mode selection if the clanners rush successfully we'll know that a counterattack is coming up right after, even if the clanners are queued up first. Win counterattacks and the rush means nothing. Still, it does help to stop the rush in the first place.

Also we are the ones attacking. Other players and units from around the IS, many of which have plenty of experience with light rushes because of IS vs IS conflicts, are still helping the FRR by defending it's borders. I think I've only dropped in defense 5 or so times in the last 60+ matches, after I'm sure that we've secured our attack option.

I have the same thing, I defend only if it is absolutely necessary, and then I mostly do counter attacks because the planet is almost taken. But its still something we should be ready for.

The most important thing is proper scouting, if you only see it when the first lights are over the gate its too late to react. But if you see whats coming you can position your mechs in the right way, faster mechs towards the gates and slow mechs towards the generators, stacked, not in force. That way you can keep the lights under fire for the whole approach.

[Mandrakerootes]

The trickiest part to defending a light rush is having people not greed for kills or the money in general. If people would leg a light and then just leave him be, that would be okay, but all of a sudden he is only running 40 kph and so easy to hit, and he probably took alot fo damage in all other places because we all cant aim for ****, which means its an easy kill weeey. End of story is everybody alphas that light they just overtook because they are faster and ignore the other 10.

Conclusion, in order for PGI to nerf light rushes, all they have to do is remove Cbill rewards from CW