83 replies to this topic

[PoorDecisions]

Defensores 6, on 05 April 2015 - 02:35 PM, said:

Just because Merc is in the title of the website doesn't mean they get to screw the game for everyone else.

Speak for yourself, please.

Defensores 6, on 05 April 2015 - 02:52 PM, said:

What the what!? Did you even read the thread or you just jumping in the middle to conserve time and effort? I'm not a purist nor am a lore rp player. Get your poop in a group and come back with a contributing statement or keep your half cocked comments to yourself.

If you're not a lore rp purist, then why are you so concerned about how effective or plentiful the mercenaries are? A big part of your argument is how they were only a small portion of the lore.

If you're not a lore fanatic, then why are you using lore as your argument?

LOADED, on 05 April 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:

actually quoted what's relevant for you. Should i draw a picture with paint so you're able to understand?

Yes, please. I'll wait.

Edited by manisuck, 05 April 2015 - 02:57 PM.

[Defensores 6]

manisuck, on 05 April 2015 - 02:50 PM, said:

Your entire premise is faulty.

The more your clan gains, the more they'll have to defend it. The fewer number of planets you have, the fewer you'll have to defend. If your clan cannot put up the numbers to defend the number of planets you have, then you deserve to lose them. Something about spreading too thin, supply lines something something.

If you have to defend 5-6 planets, then defend them. If you think you deserve to try to steal 2 other planets as well, then you're one of those that think you deserve more than you deserve. If you have to defend, then defend. If you want to attack instead of attack, that's your choice.

Nobody owes you the right to attack 2 planets while also defending 5-6 at the same time.

If you want to be able to do that, you need more people participating.

The only problem with CW right now is that tiny little switch between match types. Here's a nice little quote that you conveniently left out when quoting Russ [link]:



CW really isn't broken except for that one small detail, but that does need to be fixed.

Okay. So, you are saying that CW is fine the way it is? Then explain why Ghost Bear is being attacked along a friendly border with Smoke Jaguar by a Mercenary Unit!! The clans are at peace with each other - why can't the Merc's appreciate this and play accordingly within their contracts? Clans do not attack other clans and IS houses do not attack other houses.

Merc's are protected in that WE can not attack them directly, but they get to attack whomever they want whenever they want without repercussion - this isn't fair and it is completely disrupting the CW game play. All I'm saying is that Merc's should honor existing treaties and boundaries when they switch contracts or PGI should implement a control to ensure they are doing the right thing in an effort to preserve a peaceful and fun environment of play for all.

Is this too much to ask? Why do you refuse to answer my question instead of stating the obvious? No Clan Faction or IS House has the numbers to do what you are inferring. We do have the numbers to attack and defend along a clear front and push to Terra without Merc interference.

What is wrong with Merc Units committing to IS or Clan for a given time period; could it be that the algorithm is broken and you might not get all the cookies? Merc's must play within the guidelines set forth by any and all contracts granted or be restricted in their movements if they are not willing to act accordingly. If you can not police your own then PGI must do it or allow the community to do it for them. If they do not restrict the Merc Units then at least allow us to attack them via bounty or some other method. I wonder how the Merc's would fair if PGI wasn't protecting them. I'll bet you would be screaming bloody hell if the clans were allowed to raid and pillage your plunder at will. Oh, I long for the day....

[PoorDecisions]

Defensores 6, on 05 April 2015 - 03:13 PM, said:

Okay. So, you are saying that CW is fine the way it is? Then explain why Ghost Bear is being attacked along a friendly border with Smoke Jaguar by a Mercenary Unit!! The clans are at peace with each other - why can't the Merc's appreciate this and play accordingly within their contracts? Clans do not attack other clans and IS houses do not attack other houses.

Because mercs choose what flag to fight under and they choose where to attack and defend.

You want a real solution? The real solution involves changing the list of available attack / defense planets based on what faction you've chosen.

It's that simple.

If I want to fly the Smoke Jaguar flag and I want to attack Ghost Bears, I'm going to. Don't like it? Tough. Defend your planets or give them to me.

Edited by manisuck, 05 April 2015 - 03:21 PM.

[Defensores 6]

Thank you. Finally, a hard stance on something. The "algorithm" chooses the planets available for attack / defend with some - I assume - input from PGI directly. The reason there exists a treaty of sorts between the clans is due to the border baiting and proposed incursions of the algorithm. The goal of the clans is to push to Terra - not attack each other so, we choose to ignore attack opportunities that violate this agreement - Merc Units should honor this pact.

I applaud your suggestion. Fixing the algorithm would indeed solve the issue at hand. Sir, we are in agreement and I rest my argument on this topic.

Hopefully someone at PGI will appreciate the agreements of this summit and make appropriate changes as we have approved them here today. Well done. Good work was done by all.

[CyclonerM]

manisuck, on 05 April 2015 - 03:16 PM, said:

Because mercs choose what flag to fight under and they choose where to attack and defend.

You want a real solution? The real solution involves changing the list of available attack / defense planets based on what faction you've chosen.

It's that simple.

If I want to fly the Smoke Jaguar flag and I want to attack Ghost Bears, I'm going to. Don't like it? Tough. Defend your planets or give them to me.

That is the issue. Mercs actually do not do that. Pirates do that. Mercenaries fight under contract and are directed by their employer. Sure, they may have some strategic freedom , but for sure, they will attack the faction their employer tells them to attack. Their full pay is a good enough reason to try to fullfill the contract at best of their possibilities, quiaff?

[Davers]

I don't remember the Clans being so anti-merc when they were playing for them.

[Nightmare1]

Defensores 6, on 05 April 2015 - 11:54 AM, said:

Not bad mouthing Merc's - the contract system is totally broken. There is no approval process or penalty for switching factions/houses. "might receive penalty...not fully developed yet..." The contracts are generated by the Merc's - total BS!!

You are correct - without the Merc's the Innersphere would perish!! No clan unit has contracted a Merc unit to attack another clan/faction.

Note: I'm not whining - I cry vengeance!!

Actually, there are penalties for breaking contracts. There is also a waiting period before Units can change to new ones.

Actually, Clanners have contracted with Merc Units to attack other Clans/Factions. There have been several accounts on these forums alone of Clan Councils hiring a notable Merc Unit to attack the IS or another Clan for a week. If I recall correctly, one of the Units in question was actually the 228 itself.

The bottomline is that this isn't a game designed to preserve lore. It can't if it wants to perpetuate itself. Folks just need to get their heads wrapped around this fact so that we can move on to more important issues. People just want to play the game for fun. If you're so serious that you can't bend a little to enable that, then you probably shouldn't be playing in the first place.

[Defensores 6]

Davers, on 05 April 2015 - 03:49 PM, said:

I don't remember the Clans being so anti-merc when they were playing for them.

I don't speak for all clans or clanners for that matter and I am not anti-merc. I am anti jackassery. Merc's should be more honorable in their game play and not violate treaties between factions -quiaff?.

[Czarr]

Defensores 6, on 05 April 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

I don't speak for all clans or clanners for that matter and I am not anti-merc. I am anti jackassery. Merc's should be more honorable in their game play and not violate treaties between factions -quiaff?.

what treaties? Mercs aren't going to follow your make believe pretend treaties

[Davers]

Defensores 6, on 05 April 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

I don't speak for all clans or clanners for that matter and I am not anti-merc. I am anti jackassery. Merc's should be more honorable in their game play and not violate treaties between factions -quiaff?.

Attacking those factions are just as rewarding as attacking your 'approved targets'. Sad to say, but there is no real BT lore in this game, and all your arguments are purely lore based.

[PoorDecisions]

Defensores 6, on 05 April 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

I don't speak for all clans or clanners for that matter and I am not anti-merc. I am anti jackassery. Merc's should be more honorable in their game play and not violate treaties between factions -quiaff?.

Your subjective evaluation of jackassery does not equate to my subjective evaluation of jackassery.

What makes you more right than me?

[Defensores 6]

Davers, on 05 April 2015 - 03:58 PM, said:

Attacking those factions are just as rewarding as attacking your 'approved targets'. Sad to say, but there is no real BT lore in this game, and all your arguments are purely lore based.

manisuck, on 05 April 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

I agree with you about the rewards being equal. After all, why should anyone care how his/her decision affects others in a community game? This is my point and reason for posting the suggestion in the first place. The decisions of 12 individuals can have lasting effects on hundreds of faction members clan and IS alike. This has nothing to do with lore and more to do with common dignity and respect for others. Just because this is a game doesn't mean we are devoid of human traits and values.

Your subjective evaluation of jackassery does not equate to my subjective evaluation of jackassery.

What makes you more right than me?

I'm not sure of your definition of jackassery. Mine is; the purposeful neglect of rights, dignity, and standards of others - see quote above.

[PoorDecisions]

Defensores 6, on 05 April 2015 - 05:58 PM, said:

I'm not sure of your definition of jackassery. Mine is; the purposeful neglect of rights, dignity, and standards of others - see quote above.

Rights? Dignity? Standards of others? LOL Give me a break. Who died and made you king? Dignity? Really? Rights? Standards??? Someone has an over-inflated view of themselves. LOL.

Edited by manisuck, 05 April 2015 - 06:03 PM.

[Defensores 6]

LOL!!

[PoorDecisions]

Pssst... restricting what planets that mercs and loyalists can attack any more than they already are is going to kill CW. So... congrats.

Edited by manisuck, 05 April 2015 - 06:48 PM.

[Defensores 6]

I see this has all been talked about before: http://mwomercs.com/...g-to-john-wolf/

[CyclonerM]

Davers, on 05 April 2015 - 03:49 PM, said:

I don't remember the Clans being so anti-merc when they were playing for them.

Most of us are not anti-merc, we just want a balanced CW, where loyalists have their role and their perks.. And not a joke

Possibly with more management and strategic features, too, for both loyalists and mercs, fitting with their identity.

Edited by CyclonerM, 06 April 2015 - 04:45 AM.

[Tom Sawyer]

Perhaps an option to have a scaling penalty for merc units that switch sides? If a House had a merc unit that turned on them would that house rehire them down the road? And if they did would they not view them with suspicion and use them only in dire need?

So in game every time a unit jumps to a new house they can not attack thier prior house for a scaling set of days. At first say a day or 2, then a week and so on. This would be an example of that unit gaining a bad reputation.

Granted I understand mercs are NOT house units. They fight for profit and will go where hired. That is valid and what makes a merc unit. But even the Dragoons tried NOT to fight against their prior employers.

http://www.sarna.net...lf%27s_Dragoons

[Tarl Cabot]

(chuckles)

With the current game design, technically all of us are mercs, regardless of how we are RP it.

But to stay with the RP part and with Clans "attacking" other Clans, they were always having Trials of one thing or another. Primary focus was to always move forward but that did not stop them from hitting each other. One poster was calling them terrorists but they are not.

***********************
To put it more into "Lore" the mercs that go Clan and conduct "Trials" should be consider that. In game terms, they field both Clan and Innersphere mechs, and the current game design allows them to pilot each set of mechs against similar mechs or against the other Major Faction mechs. It also comes down to the other Clan to response to the "Trial" or ignore it, which in game terms means that unit will spend 10 minutes of their time on each drop without an opponent.

From a human perspective though, with the way those players who have primarily played Clans for any length of time have set the stage so that when, not if, a merc drops as the Clans so they can pilot their Clan mechs vs other Clan mechs, they will be less receptive to assisting those units playing primarily as Clans.

As for the Dragoons, their contracts exempted them being commanded to take action against their last employer. This did not include the other previous employers.

Penalties and whatnot, though not necessarily exceptions like the above, are needless until there is an actual DIFFERENCE game difference between a unit with a 1 month contract and a unit with a lifetime. With the current game mechanics most units could work in concert, going from one House or Clan to the next, wrecking havoc, if they so deem fit to.

Remember, there are no House Leaders nor Khans guiding the military arm, nor are they there to work together to ensure that, win or lose, the human portion of the game does not deteriorate into madness.

[CyclonerM]

Tarl Cabot, on 06 April 2015 - 08:32 AM, said:

Remember, there are no House Leaders nor Khans guiding the military arm, nor are they there to work together to ensure that, win or lose, the human portion of the game does not deteriorate into madness.

I am one of the few who think this is actually the issue. Some argue that being offered a "contract" to attack another Clan's planet means that your Clan has no truce with it and the truces made by the player units do not matter anything.

I think it is a pretty weak argument since the faction "leadership" is pretty non-existant. However, if big unit leaders were allowed to vote for Loremaster, SaKhan and Khan, i think many of these issues could be solved, politics would become even more interesting and merc units would have to actually build a good reputation with a faction to be hired. And a merc unit should need to be hired by someone just to survive

After all, it is not like these leaders would have godly powers, eh..

*raises his shield to protect himself from rocks*

Edited by CyclonerM, 06 April 2015 - 09:45 AM.