112 replies to this topic

[pattonesque]

I see a lot of LRM Atlases these days. This is probably not the best idea

I get it man, I really do. Lurming can be a lot of fun. You sit way in the back, grab a lock, and drop a bunch of explosives on some fool who can't fight back. It's a guilty pleasure, but still a pleasure.

That being said: please please please stop putting LRMs on an Atlas.

Look, that 'mech is 100 whole tons, yeah? So you can fit some big LRMs on it, and a lot of ammo, and you've got a real high vantage point so it probably feels like you're the king of the battlefield. Sweet! Except while you're in your Atlas, sitting in the back, lurming your head off, all that armor you have is going unused. Your paint is blessedly unscratched, but your teammates in smaller 'mechs don't have that luxury. They're up against an enemy team that can concentrate their fire better because they don't have you to shoot at.

If you were up front, playing an Atlas proudly like it deserves to be played, they'd pretty much have to shoot at you at some point. If you go with a standard Truckernaught build -- 1 AC/20, 3 SRM6s with Artemis, maybe two medium lasers if you want -- you can two-shot p. much any robot in the game if you get in its face. They will shoot you and you will die, but it will take a long time for you to die, and you can smash in some faces, and IDEALLY your team would use that time to get stuck in and pick them off.

But if you lurm? The damage you'll do will be sporadic and spread out, and if the enemy brings three useful assaults, you'll probably be the last one killed, in which case those 600 points of armor will mean you'll die in 15 seconds instead of 10.

Don't get me wrong -- you do what you find fun, you know? But if you want to lurm, why not a HBK-4J? Why not the Trebuchet-7M? You can make a difference lurming in those 'mechs -- they're quirked for it, have the appropriate number of tubes, and don't have the armor to get out front and smack faces anyway. You'll do more damage, make more money, and win more games. Then, when you take your Atlas out, you can play it like the proud groin-kicker that it is, and everyone will be happier.

This also applies to lurm Crabs. You can put two AC/20s on that thing, man, or 4 UAC/5s. That's a gift. Don't waste it.



x-post from reddit

[Johny Rocket]

Opinion and assumption.
From this source, again

Starting to look a lot like a pattern.

The opinion, Lrms suck and if you do anything with an assault mech but offer yourself as a meatshield you are having fun wrong.
Assumptions, all lurm boaters are low skilled idiots who ruin the fun, damage can somehow be wasted, there is no value to the team from a suppression mech. All Lurm boaters stand way in the back shooting buildings and rocks.

Here is my opinion and yes it is pure opinion, but it comes from actual play.
12vs12 cluster***** in the middle of the map are tedious and boring with a high chance your teammates will back or leg shoot you.
Using a missile slanted Fatlass as a close range striker with all srms leads to a short match with low dmg.Its turn and rotation are to slow to effectively lead a faster smaller target for good srm hits. Almost every mech in the game is faster and smaller.
I value Atlases as targets because there is so many dmg points and bonuses to harvest taking one down.
The Atlases I leave alone are the ones who have lrms and a big cannon/ laser. Why? because the exchange becomes much more even and he out armors me.
I went 1 on 1 with an Atlas with an AC20 and ecm in a KTO18 in the open in the lake on Caustic Valley and destroy him with lrms. He chased me off the base as he crossed the lake under ecm cover, so I moved around where I could cross in front of him at a medium range. I used tag and lrms to wreck him, when I got to the other side he ran I followed from cover of the ridge and got the killing blow when my lancemates held him up.
He couldn't lead me and his cannon shots fell behind me.
If he would have had Lrms he could have locked and I would have lost because of the armor difference.

Not sure why this was posted in new player help, seems more suited to General because its not an attempt to help new players play well, it is nothing more than an insistence that the OPs way is the only way, which left unchecked alienates new players from trying different things.

[YCSLiesmith]

it was posted in new player help because using LRMs is a common mistake that new players make.

[pattonesque]

Tractor Joe, on 09 April 2015 - 07:59 AM, said:

Opinion and assumption.
From this source, again

Starting to look a lot like a pattern.

The opinion, Lrms suck and if you do anything with an assault mech but offer yourself as a meatshield you are having fun wrong.
Assumptions, all lurm boaters are low skilled idiots who ruin the fun, damage can somehow be wasted, there is no value to the team from a suppression mech. All Lurm boaters stand way in the back shooting buildings and rocks.

Here is my opinion and yes it is pure opinion, but it comes from actual play.
12vs12 cluster***** in the middle of the map are tedious and boring with a high chance your teammates will back or leg shoot you.
Using a missile slanted Fatlass as a close range striker with all srms leads to a short match with low dmg.Its turn and rotation are to slow to effectively lead a faster smaller target for good srm hits. Almost every mech in the game is faster and smaller.
I value Atlases as targets because there is so many dmg points and bonuses to harvest taking one down.
The Atlases I leave alone are the ones who have lrms and a big cannon/ laser. Why? because the exchange becomes much more even and he out armors me.
I went 1 on 1 with an Atlas with an AC20 and ecm in a KTO18 in the open in the lake on Caustic Valley and destroy him with lrms. He chased me off the base as he crossed the lake under ecm cover, so I moved around where I could cross in front of him at a medium range. I used tag and lrms to wreck him, when I got to the other side he ran I followed from cover of the ridge and got the killing blow when my lancemates held him up.
He couldn't lead me and his cannon shots fell behind me.
If he would have had Lrms he could have locked and I would have lost because of the armor difference.

Not sure why this was posted in new player help, seems more suited to General because its not an attempt to help new players play well, it is nothing more than an insistence that the OPs way is the only way, which left unchecked alienates new players from trying different things.

hey so did you notice how I suggested better LRM boats for new players or did you perhaps not notice this

and while the current meta is mostly against Atlases in general you still can do quite well with a facesmasher build if you play it right

putting LRMs on an Atlas makes it slightly (slightly) better at a weakness and much worse at a strength

that tonnage can be used for a bigger engine to help with twisting or more heat sinks

basically if you lurm with an atlas you make yourself worse than a good lurmboat at long range and worse than a hunchback at short range

[Johny Rocket]

YCSLiesmith, on 09 April 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

it was posted in new player help because using LRMs is a common mistake that new players make.

Pure Opinion proffered as "how it is"

Not to mention it cracks me up you coming with that when you go by Lie Smith.

[pattonesque]

Tractor Joe, on 09 April 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

Pure Opinion proffered as "how it is"

Not to mention it cracks me up you coming with that when you go by Lie Smith.

bro please do not go like "oh yeah but UR USERNAME"

it is on the level of an e-mail forward from grandma. plz engage without this weakness

and for the most part yes, lurms are not as good as other weapons. lurms on an atlas are worse because you're taking up an assault slot that could be filled by a murder machine like a Banshee with AC/5s or a Dire Wolf or a King Crab or a better Atlas. You're making the robot do the role of a smaller robot, and it's not as good at that role as the smaller robot.

that's all man.

[Rogue Jedi]

I agree that using an Atlas as a LRM boat is less than optimal, mainly because most other assaults have a variant much better suited for using LRMs than the Atlas, e.g. the BLR-9S, the AWS-8R, the HGN-733, most Stalker Varients or a Warhawk

[M X Striker]

Assaults are made for just that purpose. The recent tendency for LRM Atlas and other assaults or DDCs without ECM are just silly and a waste of that Assault mech. Play to a mech's strengths. Using an Assault as a LRMboat is not being an effective member of your team. It's a waste of an Assault mech that should be leading your team to victory. Using as a LRM boat is self serving, hence it being mentioned as a "guilty pleasure."

[RazorbeastFXK3]

LRMs on an Atlas isn't a mistake.. They are effective when used properly and the Atlas has plenty of short/medium range weapons to switch to when the situation calls for it. Players have the freedom of putting whatever weapon configs they want on any 'mech they have access to.

If it's a mistake to put LRMs on an Atlas.. then why does the AS7-D come with an LRM20?
http://www.sarna.net...28BattleMech%29

Sure it only has a x10 launcher and a x6 launcher but it's still effective all the same. I apologize that it makes you upset to the point it ruins your gaming experience but.. again.. nobody's forcing you to bring out a LRM Atlas so why do you feel the need to demand nobody put LRMs on one themselves?

Let the other players experience what works for them and what doesn't work for them and you just focus on what makes you more effective in the field. Eventually they'll figure out what works better with their style of fighting (hopefully sooner than later) and I'm sure they'll scan through the forums for optimal builds for them to try out.

Outside of that.. I don't see how the original post in this topic helps new players.

[SethAbercromby]

Don't boat LRMs on an Atlas. That being said, feel free to put an LRM10 or 20 on it if you have the tonnage. Not every Atlas has to be a pure brawler and the benefits of a brawler Atlas are very situational. Don't be the guy who brought a 100 ton 'Mech and can't do anything of value because he can't get close enough for his weapons to matter. To lear the Atlas, get a Gauss Rifle, an LRM10, SRM6s and some pulse lasers. Thta'll give you more than enough range to matter most of the time, but people will not enjoy your company up close either.

[pattonesque]

RazorbeastFXK3, on 09 April 2015 - 09:03 AM, said:

LRMs on an Atlas isn't a mistake.. They are effective when used properly and the Atlas has plenty of short/medium range weapons to switch to when the situation calls for it. Players have the freedom of putting whatever weapon configs they want on any 'mech they have access to.

If it's a mistake to put LRMs on an Atlas.. then why does the AS7-D come with an LRM20?
http://www.sarna.net...28BattleMech%29

Sure it only has a x10 launcher and a x6 launcher but it's still effective all the same. I apologize that it makes you upset to the point it ruins your gaming experience but.. again.. nobody's forcing you to bring out a LRM Atlas so why do you feel the need to demand nobody put LRMs on one themselves?

Let the other players experience what works for them and what doesn't work for them and you just focus on what makes you more effective in the field. Eventually they'll figure out what works better with their style of fighting (hopefully sooner than later) and I'm sure they'll scan through the forums for optimal builds for them to try out.

Outside of that.. I don't see how the original post in this topic helps new players.

I'm going to stop you right there

the stock variants of each robot come from tabletop

tabletop is a different game entirely than mechwarrior online, where actual human players can fire all their weapons at a single spot with very little chance of error, and never have to deal with things like infantry or tanks or aircraft or whatever.

please do not use "well the stock variant comes with this weapon" as an argument in favor of it. it is not based in reality.

also you will notice that the tone of my post was conciliatory and that any distress you're reading into it is your own invention. this is good advice for new players because with an LRM atlas they will generally not make much money, not contribute to the team, lose often, and learn bad habits. they'll be set upon by better players and have no way to defend themselves as they struggle to fire back with the relative firepower of, like, a Jenner. If they want to lurm, they're better off lurming with 'mechs designed for it.

[Johny Rocket]

pattonesque, on 09 April 2015 - 08:19 AM, said:

hey so did you notice how I suggested better LRM boats for new players or did you perhaps not notice this

and while the current meta is mostly against Atlases in general you still can do quite well with a facesmasher build if you play it right

putting LRMs on an Atlas makes it slightly (slightly) better at a weakness and much worse at a strength

that tonnage can be used for a bigger engine to help with twisting or more heat sinks

basically if you lurm with an atlas you make yourself worse than a good lurmboat at long range and worse than a hunchback at short range

How about this, we take the focus off the Lrms, and talk about the merits of the Atlas its self. Almost any job it can do there are 3 mechs that do it better. This would be a bonus to new players. Otherwise it comes off as more Lrm bashing.
The only real shiny points for this mech is ecm on an assault.

I got my start with Catapults and moved up to the the King of Lrm Assaults the STK 3F, the extra torso turn compared to other stalkers means you can defend yourself with a butt load of ml quite well. This mech I honestly don't mind being on the front line in. 4 lrm15 and either 6 ml or 5 ml and tag. Still the basic load on it, sometimes I drop some ammo and the ml and run it with an xl285 and 2 erll with the 4x lrm15.


I played with the Atlas and the best build for me was lrms and lasers. But yes it was very subpar in comparison to my 2 missile StKs 3F and 5M and is only better than the Catapults because it lived longer.

I don't remember a lot of the specs for the Atlas variants so I am generalizing them. The only one I see that really breaks the issues is the Boar's Head.

The only reason why I have been posting so much about this is I actually agree with all lot of the points you guys make I just disagree on the root of the issue. I loathe being on a team with a bunch of noob boaters. They are useless and the team really only needs a few boats for mass effectiveness.
I made all the mistakes but I studied and improved. I want to help those serious about learning the craft skip the long slug, but every time I am met with Lurms suck. I also want to dissuade those who are not serious about the craft from cheap thrills when they would actually have more fun doing something else.

My evolution as a boater has honestly steered me away from Assaults altogether and from running just lrms and a few ml for defense. Small fast sniper/boats are where its at. That should explain my fascination with the Kintaro, the 18 and 19 are awesome 500m face eaters. The 20 I run all laser and a max xl.

Thats why my first post in the Lrm help thread was to suggest not going with an assault boat at all. The speed and perceived threat they pose make them more difficult to use effectively. Then Stalkers are really the only option in my opinion and it is not the beginners level.

[The Red Priest]

I agree with the OP. I am sick and tired of seeing 100-ton assaults be LRM-boats. No, you should be out there DOING THE JOB YOU WERE MEANT TO DO. Which is kick butt and chew bubblegum. I understand if you're using the QUIRKED assaults for lrms like the Battlemech. Because they're quirked for it and you need to level that. I understand that, but ever single time I see an LRM 40-60 King Crab or Atlas, I am severely disappointed, because we're down one guy that we REALLY need. Why? Because he's not up in the front pushing, and murdering people's faces. Instead he's sitting all the way in the back doing absolutely nothing and hardly helping the team. Don't force a mech that's not supposed to be an lrm boat be one. Pick up a catapult to do that. Pick up a stalker to do that. DO NOT pick up a mech that can literally take on a daishi one-on-one and actually kick it's butt(king crab with 4 u/ac5s does this amazingly well, depending on the pilot's skill).

[YCSLiesmith]

Tractor Joe, on 09 April 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

Pure Opinion proffered as "how it is"

Not to mention it cracks me up you coming with that when you go by Lie Smith.

when I say new players commonly use LRMs it is a statement of fact, friend. I guess you could quibble about the word 'common' but there doesnt seem to be any point in doing that.

[Johny Rocket]

pattonesque, on 09 April 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

bro please do not go like "oh yeah but UR USERNAME"

it is on the level of an e-mail forward from grandma. plz engage without this weakness

and for the most part yes, lurms are not as good as other weapons. lurms on an atlas are worse because you're taking up an assault slot that could be filled by a murder machine like a Banshee with AC/5s or a Dire Wolf or a King Crab or a better Atlas. You're making the robot do the role of a smaller robot, and it's not as good at that role as the smaller robot.

that's all man.

lol, maybe my first post was a bit heavy but I came right over from the other useless lrm help thread. In the moment just felt like a continuation of the same circle jerk.
When a person is given a chance to choose a name for themselves it can often be an insite into their self perception, or sometimes just randomness like Tractor Joe, names not Joe and have never owned a tractor, it was the funny name I gave the computer I first played on because it was slow as a turtle just like my 1st mech on this account.
Lie Smith just comes across as something with more insight to it. Maybe its a reference I missed.
Its still hard to take a serious point from one called lie smith. Oxymoronic even.

[pattonesque]

Tractor Joe, on 09 April 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

lol, maybe my first post was a bit heavy but I came right over from the other useless lrm help thread. In the moment just felt like a continuation of the same circle jerk.
When a person is given a chance to choose a name for themselves it can often be an insite into their self perception, or sometimes just randomness like Tractor Joe, names not Joe and have never owned a tractor, it was the funny name I gave the computer I first played on because it was slow as a turtle just like my 1st mech on this account.
Lie Smith just comes across as something with more insight to it. Maybe its a reference I missed.
Its still hard to take a serious point from one called lie smith. Oxymoronic even.

if you take usernames on the internet this seriously and they're not outright bigoted then I don't know what to tell you

[Tiamat of the Sea]

pattonesque, on 09 April 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

if you take usernames on the internet this seriously and they're not outright bigoted then I don't know what to tell you

Tell him that he's trying too hard to read meaning into everything.

[Kain Demos]

Tractor Joe, on 09 April 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

Pure Opinion proffered as "how it is"

Not to mention it cracks me up you coming with that when you go by Lie Smith.

"How it is" is that LRMs are trash and only new players/bad players cling to them.

[Richter Kerensky]

I'm sorry but your repeated insistence that everything we're saying is "only your opinion!!!!" is something five year olds say constantly once they've learned what the word "opinion" means because they haven't yet learned how to measure evidence and testimony and most of their thoughts are about how girls are icky and how Mortal Kombat is extremely rad did you see Scorpion just tear his face off and it was a skull and he spit a fireball

Five year olds are at least right about Mortal Kombat, but they're wrong about girls and you're wrong about LRMs.

[Johny Rocket]

pattonesque, on 09 April 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

if you take usernames on the internet this seriously and they're not outright bigoted then I don't know what to tell you

I don't, its ironic is all.
Now I did actually make an attempt to write a post on the topic with a lot of middle ground to discuss. Care to join me in that discussion or ...