28 replies to this topic

[Elizander]

I've been following MWO's troubled twin brother Hawken for awhile. I don't play it and I don't even have it downloaded but I was curious with how the game was handled by the developer and how it 'died' with the developer closing shop and the game having no forums or support whatsoever.

Just came across an article stating that APB reloaded guys just bought off the rights to publish and develop Hawken again. The investors probably took over the game and let it simmer in Steam while looking for a buyer.

Link to article - http://www.gamesindu...acquired-hawken

I was just browsing Twitter for USF4 and MWO stuff then I was surprised when I saw some Hawken Tweets.

[Lily from animove]

you are quite late with this, we already have a topic for this.

But beware the trolls and hackers, who may come over form APB to hawken.

[Josef Koba]

Marack Drock, on 13 April 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

Hawken is not even close to MW:O's twin brother... its not even a cousin. Its Mecha so that is as close as it gets. Kind like saying we are human doesn't mean we are all related. Hawken is a FPS with mechs. Its like Titanfall only slightly more fun. I am hoping this game falls back into the abyss to stay there.

But why? Some people might have enjoyed it. I'm not one of them; I found it tedious. But MWO isn't everyone's cup of tea either.

[Lily from animove]

Josef Koba, on 13 April 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:

But why? Some people might have enjoyed it. I'm not one of them; I found it tedious. But MWO isn't everyone's cup of tea either.

hawken is too fast for supposed giant robots, it feels more like a regular shooter with "mech skins" on your character than a real game about big and heavy robots. Then there are no "special" universe unique things in hawken to differ it from other shooters or mechgames. It's just one of many shooters.

A MMO like game can not survive with "some" palyers, because, servers to run cost some money. Dev staff to work on it cost some money, Support and sales team cost some many.

one "some" vs 3"some" which is like some vs many.

Edited by Lily from animove, 21 April 2015 - 03:50 AM.

[CimaGarahau]

I recently saw that Hawken is also available in Steam now. I'm thinking about installing this game, what would you guys say. Is this game worth it?

[Anjian]

Lily from animove, on 21 April 2015 - 03:48 AM, said:

hawken is too fast for supposed giant robots, it feels more like a regular shooter with "mech skins" on your character than a real game about big and heavy robots. Then there are no "special" universe unique things in hawken to differ it from other shooters or mechgames. It's just one of many shooters.

Actually there is quite a few.

1. Modular configurability of appearance. You can have the legs of one mech, the torso of another, the arms of yet another, to produce some custom looking mechs.
2. The real cool repair drones that hover around the mech to repair it.
3. Dropping modules, like force fields, turrets and such.
4. Cool gaming modes like the Siege mode and the Missle assault.
5. Invisbility ala Predator (yes the mech that goes invisible is called the Predator and the torso looks like the Predator mask).
6. The assault mechs transforming into moving turrets.
7. The dystopian look of its maps.
8. The PvE mission where you deal with a lot of flying drones, then a boss mech.
9. The repair mech that projects some force into another mech to repair it, called the Technician.
10. Boosting.

Other than that, you are mostly right.

Edited by Anjian, 21 April 2015 - 06:07 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Eclair Farron, on 21 April 2015 - 05:09 AM, said:

I recently saw that Hawken is also available in Steam now. I'm thinking about installing this game, what would you guys say. Is this game worth it?

its f2p, so there is not really a reason not to test it out t least, unless you still have a 56k modem

Anjian, on 21 April 2015 - 06:03 AM, said:

Actually there is quite a few.

1. Modular configurability of appearance. You can have the legs of one mech, the torso of another, the arms of yet another, to produce some custom looking mechs.
2. The real cool repair drones that hover around the mech to repair it.
3. Dropping modules, like force fields, turrets and such.
4. Cool gaming modes like the Siege mode and the Missle assault.
5. Invisbility ala Predator (yes the mech that goes invisible is called the Predator and the torso looks like the Predator mask).
6. The assault mechs transforming into moving turrets.
7. The dystopian look of its maps.
8. The PvE mission where you deal with a lot of flying drones, then a boss mech.
9. The repair mech that projects some force into another mech to repair it, called the Technician.
10. Boosting.

Other than that, you are mostly right.

So wait, how is that "unique"

repair? thats a usual "medic" mechanic of shooters. Invisibility? now that is totally new to the shooter genre? Mechs into turrets, now I think I have seen that before as well even if that was in an MMO. And nearly all the features you mention are not new at all, they all have been there in shooters already. The only difference again is, its now wrapped in robot skins instead of human skins. So except point 1 I do not see something very own.

And thats an issue, because most shooters are not MMO's and just buy to play. It's quite hard keeping such a MMO shooter model alive and paid. S.K.I.L.L Special force 2 is trying this as well as an MMO shooter. Going into Esports quite a lot. yet I have played it, and hitreg issues with incorrect hitboxes are quite present as in most MMO's.

So when you have niche MMO's you need a loyal playerbase that keeps paying. Which is problematic if you are not special enough. MWO has its own history and fanbase, it can sustainn this to a level where it keeps running and in development.

[Anjian]

Like I said, its just a few. The repair stuff happening is quite cool, to see the drone fly around, welding back your mech. You can customize the drone with a variety of designs and special effects, which are all of course, something you have to pay for.

Dropping force field bubbles and turrets. I don't know which shooter has that.

The Siege and Missile Assault game modes are truly unique.

None of them are truly unique enough to bring Hawken out of the myriad of shooters. For me it does look better than Titanfall, but then that isn't a very successful shooter either.

MWO has its niche, but that niche is rather small and ill defined. It doesn't know whether its a tank game or its a person shooter. Somehow falling into the nebulous place between the two is not a good situation to be in. Long term sustainability remains a question mark. MWO doesn't feel its growing as fast as some other online games I know, in fact my impression of its is that its player base growth has become stagnant and might even be retreating. The population boost in winter might be seasonal though player base decline in spring might also be seasonal.

[Lily from animove]

Anjian, on 22 April 2015 - 01:45 AM, said:

Like I said, its just a few. The repair stuff happening is quite cool, to see the drone fly around, welding back your mech. You can customize the drone with a variety of designs and special effects, which are all of course, something you have to pay for.

Dropping force field bubbles and turrets. I don't know which shooter has that.

The Siege and Missile Assault game modes are truly unique.

None of them are truly unique enough to bring Hawken out of the myriad of shooters. For me it does look better than Titanfall, but then that isn't a very successful shooter either.

MWO has its niche, but that niche is rather small and ill defined. It doesn't know whether its a tank game or its a person shooter. Somehow falling into the nebulous place between the two is not a good situation to be in. Long term sustainability remains a question mark. MWO doesn't feel its growing as fast as some other online games I know, in fact my impression of its is that its player base growth has become stagnant and might even be retreating. The population boost in winter might be seasonal though player base decline in spring might also be seasonal.

droppng turrets thats old as hell. Bubble forcefields are new as being a bubble, but not really something so amazing. Except you wanna crowd teemates under it to get AE bombed

MWo does not knwo if its a tank game or a person shooter? Mechwarrior was never one of both. It's not related to tnak shooter, just because of torso twisting? Otherwise what else does it have in common with a tank game?. And it never was a person shooter. Components to blow off were always there, didn't knew in person shooters one cna shoot my arm off while I still run around running and gunning. Or a leg. Mechs behave entirely different, only the "2 legs" is what it has in common with. MWO is decent own Mechsimulator having its very own mechanics. The Weapons and their groups, heat, sections to blow off, armor vs structure and destroyable weapons. Thats all some unqiue things battletech brought into the entire gamign world.

mechwarrior 1989 and Battletech 1988 (developed by westwood). And except from the torso twist abilities that the first mechwarrior didn't had by technical reasons, the game basically never changed. MWO is not even much more special in its features than the first MW title. It's just better graphics. But the entire rest except a few controls differences, ecm and a soloplayer mode is the same. So how are they trying to be mechgames, or person shooters if they had all these featues since ever. It's like trying to say a helicopter game doesn't knows if it wants to be a airplane or spceship game.

But in hawken the emchs behave like humans, with the way and style how they move and make instant turns, which a giant heavy robot would not do. Hawken is more of a FPS person shooter wrapped with mech skins. This is actually what a lot "mech" games do, and thats why most of them can not stay on the market, because they are then one game in the entire mass of person shooters.

[Anjian]

Eclair Farron, on 21 April 2015 - 05:09 AM, said:

I recently saw that Hawken is also available in Steam now. I'm thinking about installing this game, what would you guys say. Is this game worth it?

For all its worth its really fun, though its not really a much of a mech game, more like a futuristic shooter.

[Stealth Fox]

Anjian, on 22 April 2015 - 01:45 AM, said:

Dropping force field bubbles and turrets. I don't know which shooter has that.

https://youtu.be/7KTc2aZEaeg?t=35s


>_>

[Lily from animove]

Ok, since I have a 50Mbit/s connection I redownlaoded it on steam, and yes, there is 0 mechfeeling in this game.

it feels a bit like playing crime craft gangwars.

the movement feels very much human shooter like.
2 weapons, like in human shotoers, just no wepaons switch needed.
There are the mechanic bots, much medic like.
the repair bubbles, much like medikits.
and repairing? yer like stimpacks or bandages.
The "heat" feels more like its supposed to be a kind of "relaod" replacement, becaue otherwise I would be able to spam indefinately fire due to no ammo mechanics.

it leaves so absolutely no "mech feeling" in me. it could be soldiers with jetpakcs or anythign else, and would feel the entire same.

Then about making money.
Well its nice to not be p2w. But I went through the "customisation" and the mechdesigns are mostly boring and too similar for the parts. Also the camos to apply, mostly boring nothign that excites me to a degree where I want to say: WOW I WANT THAT!!!
Not even the decals can be made unique.

So the only thing I saw hat I probabyl would pay some RL money for would have been a different looking repair drone.

The game is a nice little running and gunning arenashooter. But I see nothing long term motivating. Nothing

[Anjian]

I think that is the idea of it, that future mechs are actually more like mechanical infantry, that they should fight in a way more reminiscient to a human. There are actually many tactical advantages to fighting like a human, being fast and able to conceal effectively and use cover. Otherwise what is having a human form for? Mechwarrior is full of contradictions. Why would you have a humanoid form if you fight it like a walker?

Edited by Anjian, 26 April 2015 - 06:31 PM.

[Lily from animove]

Anjian, on 26 April 2015 - 06:31 PM, said:

I think that is the idea of it, that future mechs are actually more like mechanical infantry, that they should fight in a way more reminiscient to a human. There are actually many tactical advantages to fighting like a human, being fast and able to conceal effectively and use cover. Otherwise what is having a human form for? Mechwarrior is full of contradictions. Why would you have a humanoid form if you fight it like a walker?

But this will not work on a big scale, because physiks do not support such a behavior on that size. That is why the japanese genre of human sized robots may work, when they are more like an armor around a e person. But hawken mechs are quite big and so hav to deal with other levels of physics.

[CimaGarahau]

Well than, thanks for the info.

[Anjian]

Wait. I never had the impression that Hawken mechs were that big. Relative to Battlemech sizes I would say the lightest of the light mech sized, around 20 tons and at the most 30 tons.

Physics are not the question here, in science fiction you would already assume that the technology does work, and the Hawken universe does feel quite more advanced than the Battletech universe.

[Lily from animove]

Anjian, on 27 April 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

Physics are not the question here, in science fiction you would already assume that the technology does work, and the Hawken universe does feel quite more advanced than the Battletech universe.

In hawkens dystopian world where everythign looks like build out of junk?
And working tehcnology will still not invalidate physics.

[Anjian]

Their working technology includes antigravity just in case you notice their repair, attack and target drones, as well as the mothership in the missile assault mode, all totally doesn't exhibit the use of trusters. You will also notice the use of nanotechnology, used for repair and the use of force fields. That's pretty higher tech than BT to me. Another thing is that SF does invalidate physics (things don't travel faster than light, that is relativity) otherwise you won't have Star Wars or Star Trek. If physics are applied to BT, lasers would be totally inefficient since the use of smoke generators and ablative armor (armor that burns away and gives off a smoke screen) would have invalidated the use of energy weapons. Flat torsos also make projectiles easier to penetrate and unlike modern tanks, mechs are full of shot traps that make it easier for projectiles to penetrate. But we simply assume they are not because the SF license of disbelief. In fact, the warfare in BT is totally unrealistic because once you reach the space/planatary/stellar level of civilization, the main determinators of combat isn't going to be mechs, but starships, fighters, carriers and battleships in space ala EVE Online, Star Wars and Star Trek. Air power also demolishes land power anytime, and our current and real 21st century military technology already well surpasses and destroys Battletech except in the case of energy weapons. In fact our current missile technologies are far superior than those shown in BT; drones lighting up a mech lance and the mech lance would be wiped out by a salvo of Tomahawks from an AEGIS cruiser.

Edited by Anjian, 27 April 2015 - 05:10 PM.

[Anjian]

The old beta version of Hawken used to show human to mech scale in its garage, I would say a Hawken mech is about the size of a helicopter, thus in a way, even smaller than a light battlemech.

Dystopian civilizations are very advanced, the concept of dystopia is that the technology is so advanced and so dominating, it has dominated every facet of life. Except for the Clans, the tech in BT isn't anywhere as intrusive and pervasive. A very high level of technology is needed to achieve near omnipresent intrusion and pervasion, and this technology is kept in tight monopolistic control by an elite, usually corporations or a government, while access to technology is rationed to everyone else. The junk like appearance of Hawken mechs reflects that they are literally built and scrounged from the excesses of that civilization. (Creatively speaking, it also arises from recent game trends to make mechanical and technological design more 'grungy' and industrial.)

[Taffer]

Ah Hawken. That game was actually pretty cool back in alpha and beta. They had so many codes to redeem the in-game money, I owned all the mechs by the time it released.

I don't know wtf they were thinking with that game. When it released it was like a different game. It became faster, more jumpy, and the TTK became ridiculously low. They really ruined that one. I was kind of happy to see it die after what they did.

Too bad. I hope whoever owns it now tries to keep it clunky and mechy and stop with all this COD with cockpit overlay ****.

Edited by Taffer, 27 April 2015 - 08:29 PM.