16 replies to this topic

[War Kitten]

Greetings All,

I know that Tag stacks with Bap and increases lock on speed of lrms and counters ecm (does that mean that with bap it counters 2 ecms?) and increases lock hold time. Does it also work this way with streaks?

Also, some of us only have a 2 button mouse, so, I feel that having to use up 1 button hold down instead of having a on/off keyboard button is silly, some of us have a back up weapon on the other button. Catapults have a open/close keyboard button and you would think that the doors would auto-open/close before/after firing. Just saying that I think that the tag should either have a on/off keyboard button or stay on all the time to not use up a button.

Thank you for all your help!

War Kitten

"Fear the Kitten!"

[Wintersdark]

Toggle tag would be nice, but alas It's more complex right now because TAG is just a weapon, which needs to be in a weapon group - it requires more design to make it happen than a simple toggle keybind so it probably won't happen soon. Also, we've been asking for it forever and haven't heard a peep that it was on the radar.

As such: Autohotkey is your friend, if you don't have a mouse and/or keyboard with macro support.

[Tim East]

War Kitten, on 18 April 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

I know that Tag stacks with Bap and increases lock on speed of lrms and counters ecm (does that mean that with bap it counters 2 ecms?) and increases lock hold time. Does it also work this way with streaks?

What do you mean, "TAG stacks with BAP," exactly? TAG and BAP do completely different things, apart from the ECM countering, and that can get a little weird. TAG improves missile lock on, and CAN counter a single ECM unit IF you are not in an ECM field AND you can keep the laser on the target. BAP improves info gathering speed and sensor range, and allows you to detect shutdown mechs if you are close to them, AND counters the closest ECM within 240m (iirc) of you.

Ergo, you CAN counter two ECMs with TAG+BAP, but only if you are within 240 of the nearer ECM mech and TAGging the further one as long as it is still within your TAG range. Even so, this may not work if both of the ECM mechs are close enough to you to envelop you within both ECM fields, because if I recall correctly, TAG cannot counter an ECM that it is within the jamming field (180m iirc) of. So it's highly situational. Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of TAG due to the face-time and all-around attention required to utilize it, so I haven't used it in a good while. Like, since the first quirkening.

Bear in mind, I'm running off memory and a little hazy from allergies atm, so if I made an incorrect assumption, I apologize.

[luigi256]

1 BAP will counter one ECM. If there are two enemy mechs with ECM I believe you will still be jammed by the second ECM mech, tag cuts through the ECM bubble but it does not negate it I believe. Like the guy above I don't use it very often just on a few LRM mechs that I rarely use.

As for the lock on time I think it will be faster with a BAP on and then having a tag on the target too. I'm not too sure though. Someone else with more tag experience will hopefully come along and answer this definitely.

[Tim East]

luigi256, on 18 April 2015 - 08:22 PM, said:

As for the lock on time I think it will be faster with a BAP on and then having a tag on the target too. I'm not too sure though. Someone else with more tag experience will hopefully come along and answer this definitely.

BAP does not improve missile lock on time. That much I know for certain. I love BAP; it does many things, but not that.

[Banditman]

Or, for a measly $.01, you can stick a penny in the keyboard to keep the Tag firing all match.

At least that's my $.02

Huh. Somebody made a penny.

[XphR]

Also, bay doors do indeed automatically open and close. Opening them manually will just bypass the quite short fire lag that is produced on requesting fire from a shielded bay.

[mailin]

Tag + BAP has probably been addressed sufficiently, so I'll address your other questions. PGI uses the same algorithm for lrms as for streaks, so whatever works for lrms, like tag, also works for streaks. Now that info comes with a caveat, which is, that this is hearsay. I've been playing since way back in closed beta and that's how it was back then and the algorithm was never changed, to the best of my knowledge. I will say that on my Ravel 3L I have a tag and streaks and once I have a lock, I rarely lose it.

As far as a toggle for tag, or just leaving tag on all the time, I highly advise against that. It's kind of like a beacon that the enemy can (and will) follow back to your position.

[Vlad Striker]

Not BAP but Artemis + TAG stacks.

[JC Daxion]

You need bap to counter ECM, Personally i never run streaks with out BAP.

tag+artemis increase lock time and stack..

artemis on streaks do NOT add any weight, so it is a free upgrade.. (note if you have SRM's or LRM's on the same mech, the weight will be added at the rate of +1 ton per launcher so keep that in mind)


What i do is keep a separate key for tag only when i don't want to fire streaks, like when i am tagging targets out of range of my streaks, as they will fire out of range if you have a lock on,.

But if you are getting a fresh lock, just hold down the streak fire button, and keep tag on the target, (aka the same button with both grouped) then they will fire as soon as they lock on.

[mailin]

Yes, if you have a mech with streaks, BAP is almost a requirement. I know that when I'm in an ECM light if the enemy has streaks I will get up close to see if he has a BAP. No BAP means streaks cannot fire, in which case he may be easy pickings for me. In that case, I'll stay close and fire away. If he does have a BAP, I do the smart thing and either get out of there, or if we have another ECM light I will try to group up with him to take out the streaker. Remember, that a BAP only counters a single ECM. If you get swarmed by ECM lights, you need to try to get someone from your team to help you out.

Also, note that TAG will let you lock streaks from outside an ECM bubble too.

[Tesunie]

Just to say it, BAP does NOT decrease Missile Lock on time. It decreases time for data gather, which is gaining the damage display of your target.

Artemis decreases missile lock on time.
NARC decreases missile lock on time.
TAG decreases missile lock on time.

BAP does not.
Command Console does not either.


Also, TAG does not "disable" ECM. It punches through it so you can target a unit under ECM. NARC can disable ECM on the unit NARC if they are the ECM carrier. As already mentioned, BAP also disables the closest ECM unit.
Example: If you are under 2 enemy ECM, and you have BAP and TAG, your TAG is still useless as ECM is still around if you are within the effects of the ECM.
If you have NARC, and you NARC one ECM carrier, and have BAP, you will shut down the two ECM, permitting locks again.

Fun side note:
If you NARC an ally who has ECM, your friendly NARC actually turns off their ECM system! NARC with care people! (But no other NARC effects happen.)

Edited by Tesunie, 22 April 2015 - 08:02 PM.

[Tesunie]

PS: I also run with one a two button mouse (wheel button is for zoom). I have used the left shift key as a third weapon group, for weapons such as TAG or LRMs. Normally, left shift turns arm lock on and off (moving your arms separately from your torsos). I always play with arm lock off, so I was never using that button.

[Koniving]

War Kitten, on 18 April 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

Greetings All,

I know that Tag stacks with Bap and increases lock on speed of lrms and counters ecm (does that mean that with bap it counters 2 ecms?) and increases lock hold time. Does it also work this way with streaks?

Due to a lack of programming them with separate lock mechanics, TAG does in fact work with streaks.
In theory you could counter an ECM at 150 meters with BAP, and a second one with TAG in the distance (beyond 180 meters and up to 750 meters), but of the two BAP is MUCH better at countering ECM. If both ECMs enter within 180 meters you're screwed.

TAG only makes the ECM-covered target available while pointing at it, while sticking you with an impossibly long lock on time (up to 8 seconds).

BAP neutralizes the lock on issues at 150 meters or less. (It doesn't decrease lock time under normal circumstances, but it removes lock delays from ECM at 150 meters or less as a hard counter. TAG is a soft counter, only allowing the target to be targeted but not stopping the lock delays).

Quote

Also, some of us only have a 2 button mouse, so, I feel that having to use up 1 button hold down instead of having a on/off keyboard button is silly, some of us have a back up weapon on the other button. Catapults have a open/close keyboard button and you would think that the doors would auto-open/close before/after firing. Just saying that I think that the tag should either have a on/off keyboard button or stay on all the time to not use up a button.

Thank you for all your help!

There's toggle programs and macros for that.

Personally, I recommend a multi-button mouse. For less than 40 dollars in 2011 I got a 6 button mouse. I still have it.

Edited by Koniving, 22 April 2015 - 08:25 PM.

[Tim East]

Koniving, on 22 April 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

Due to a lack of programming them with separate lock mechanics, TAG does in fact work with streaks.
In theory you could counter an ECM at 150 meters with BAP, and a second one with TAG in the distance (beyond 180 meters and up to 750 meters), but of the two BAP is MUCH better at countering ECM. If both ECMs enter within 180 meters you're screwed.

TAG only makes the ECM-covered target available while pointing at it, while sticking you with an impossibly long lock on time (up to 8 seconds).

BAP neutralizes the lock on issues at 150 meters or less. (It doesn't decrease lock time under normal circumstances, but it removes lock delays from ECM at 150 meters or less as a hard counter. TAG is a soft counter, only allowing the target to be targeted but not stopping the lock delays).

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say.

[Romeo Deluxe]

Haven't used TAG in a long time. This is info using the Logitech Gaming Software.

TAG Macro for G600
Multi Key
Record with pause and hold down on keyboard, say, 4 for weapon group 4.
(I also added the Numpad / as a shortcut to Group 4)
0.5 sec duration is working for me, might have to adjust it.
Set at the bottom to Toggle with 0 delay.



I think I did the Numpad / so that if I hit 4 on my keyboard that would actually still only be for a weapon group 4 and would not activate the macro. I did this a long time ago so my memory is fuzzy.

Edited by Romeo Deluxe, 23 April 2015 - 04:16 PM.

[Samedi Wretch]

Thanks Romeo!