30 replies to this topic

[Parapraxis192]

Hi everyone!

As the title says, I'm new to MWO, but I'm not new to the Mechwarrior games. I played Mechwarrior 2 a long, long time ago (in a galaxy far far away) when I was a kid, and more recently have played the Mechcommander games and have begun getting into the tabletop game as well, having bought the newest box set.

Anyhow, enough with that. I do have a few questions about the game that I figured I'd ask while I was fooling around on here. I'm currently about to start my "training" games.

1) I'm most interested in medium range and brawling type engagements. What is your personal favorite chassis for those ranges, and why? Feel free to give tips on loadouts and builds, too!

2) Is it worth saving up for a Clan chassis? The MWO rendition of the Timberwolf is gorgeous, so I've been thinking of saving up for one while I was looking at the game.

3) I was going over some videos on YouTube and happened across one of a Stalker with six PPC's. Is that... a normal thing to see?

4) Another question related to a YouTube video I found the other day. Are LRM's still as incredible powerful as what I saw in that video? It was rather old, but the games basically looked like one big game of rocket tag.

Other than that, I can't really think of anything else. Feel free to add me in game if you'd like. I'm planning on getting a headset soon (or at least, Blizzard Soon).

[Wintersdark]

You want to choose IS or Clan, initially. This is due to how the game systems work for things like getting your pilot skills (need three variants of a chassis to get Elite skills) and how Community Warfare is restricted to one faction or the other, whichever you choose.

IS is easier to get into due to low entry cost for mechs, but they (tend to) need more upgrades. Clan mechs are more expensive, but come fully upgraded, so the cost ends up working out in many cases. However, lots of Medium and Heavy IS mechs work well with standard engines and limited upgrades, so they tend to be cheaper overall.

1) Depends on faction, and ultimately most mechs can be built for whatever you want, though certain IS mechs in particular will be better at specific loadouts due to their "Quirks". I'd need more information to give you a better answer.

2) The Timberwolf is probably the best mech in the game currently, so you can't really go wrong there.

3) No. Not anymore. There was a time when it happened, but these days if you fired 6 PPC's at once you'd shut down instantly and for a long, long time, taking substantial damage in the process. It's actually possible to outfit a Clan Direwolf with 9 Clan ERPPC's, but fire them all together and it'll almost kill you (if you had 100% CT health) and leaves you shut down for around 30 seconds. The second shot kills you.

4) LRM's are funny. At low end play, they're very powerful because players don't know how to avoid/mitigate them. They almost never appear at high end play (and amusingly you can be laughed at for bringing them as a result) because they're nearly completely worthless. Ultimately, LRM's are no more powerful than anything else, but they have the advantage of being able to fire indirectly, and the disadvantage of being pretty much completely negated by ECM or cover, and mitigated via AMS.

In short: LRM's can seem crazy at first, but this is absolutely a L2P matter. People hate to admit this, because being killed via LRM's regularly means you're not as good a player as you may want to believe, but that's the reality of it.

They're the underbarrel Grenade Launcher of MWO.

For point 1...

It depends a lot on what sorts of weapons you'd want to use. Our weapons are similar to their incarnations in the earlier MW games, though balance varies of course. Are you familiar with the energy/ballistic/missile hardpoint system in use here?

Edited by Wintersdark, 18 April 2015 - 06:49 PM.

[Omi_]

Parapraxis192, on 18 April 2015 - 06:34 PM, said:

1) I'm most interested in medium range and brawling type engagements. What is your personal favorite chassis for those ranges, and why? Feel free to give tips on loadouts and builds, too!

I personally enjoy the 35-ton Firestarter FS9-S for this, with it's many medium pulse lasers and 150 kph. FS9-S

Parapraxis192, on 18 April 2015 - 06:34 PM, said:

2) Is it worth saving up for a Clan chassis? The MWO rendition of the Timberwolf is gorgeous, so I've been thinking of saving up for one while I was looking at the game.

Inner Sphere chassis need upgrades like Endo Steel, Ferro Fibrious, Double Heatsinks and Artemis Guidance in order to be as effective as they can be, which have high aftermarket costs. Clan chassis have these systems locked, and usually come installed with the initial purchase. The clan mech costs reflect this with a front-loaded price tag and fewer expenses later.

Parapraxis192, on 18 April 2015 - 06:34 PM, said:

3) I was going over some videos on YouTube and happened across one of a Stalker with six PPC's. Is that... a normal thing to see?

Not really. What you don't see in that video is that the mech overheats for literal minutes, taking internal damage the entire time. High-alpha builds that deal massive damage are possible, but FAR less viable than a year and some ago due to exponential heat being generated by large arrays of similarly-typed weapons.

Parapraxis192, on 18 April 2015 - 06:34 PM, said:

4) Another question related to a YouTube video I found the other day. Are LRM's still as incredible powerful as what I saw in that video? It was rather old, but the games basically looked like one big game of rocket tag.

There was a time about one year ago when they were nuts for like a month. That time has since passed, but beware, LRMs prey on new players who haven't learned how to mitigate them (using more aggressive tactics such as denying scouts or closing distance, not just hiding behind cover until death). Your first-timer experience may vary.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Parapraxis192, on 18 April 2015 - 06:34 PM, said:

1) I'm most interested in medium range and brawling type engagements. What is your personal favorite chassis for those ranges, and why? Feel free to give tips on loadouts and builds, too!

2) Is it worth saving up for a Clan chassis? The MWO rendition of the Timberwolf is gorgeous, so I've been thinking of saving up for one while I was looking at the game.

3) I was going over some videos on YouTube and happened across one of a Stalker with six PPC's. Is that... a normal thing to see?

4) Another question related to a YouTube video I found the other day. Are LRM's still as incredible powerful as what I saw in that video? It was rather old, but the games basically looked like one big game of rocket tag.

Welcome!

1 - Pretty much anything can be repurposed on way or another. I'd be listing more mechs than not if I had to pick out specific variants for brawling. Currently I'm running through my ® mechs, but I'll go ahead and list a couple of old stand-by brawlers that I still have in my bays. AWS-8Q with 2x PPC and 5x MPL. KGC with 2x AC20 and backup lasers (to taste). WVR-7K with 3x ML and 3x ASRM6. Hunchbacks 4G, 4P, and 4SP.

2 - Decide if you want to be a faction loyalist. If yes, decide if you are an IS loyalist or a Clan loyalist. If IS, then don't save up for Clan stuff on your main. Create an alt with a themed pilot name and go Clan on that account. If Clan, then yes, and indeed, stop buying IS stuff on your main and create an alt for your IS stuff. If you don't care, then it's entirely to taste. Personally, I run a Clan alt and enjoy the Mad Cat quite a bit (Ryoken, too).

3 - Not anymore. There was a brief time where 6x PPC Stalkers were somewhat popular, though the 4x PPC Stalker was better. You still see the occasional 6x PPC Stalker troll build, but it's a very rare thing now.

4 - They're very strong... if conditions are perfect. Cover beats LRMs, AMS cuts down their damage (and every AMS in range will trigger on them, so a team with lots of AMS can chew up very large volleys), ECM makes LRMs useless (unless you have a TAG, NARC, or UAV on the target, or dumb-fire at somebody and he doesn't move), and generally LRMs require a lot of effort for a delayed chance of damage that is usually spread all over the target. Compare that to PPCs, Gauss Rifles, Lasers, etc., which might require some face time but allow you to duck in and out of cover between shots, and which don't care about maintaining locks so allow you to twist and spread incoming fire, and LRMs come out looking very poorly. They're situationally useful in the public queue, or the occasional casual premade that builds around them, but other than that they're mediocre at best.

[Parapraxis192]

Hey, thanks for the replies!

For now, I think I'm going to be saving up for Clan tech on my main account. Specifically, I'm looking at the Timberwolf as being my first purchase. I may end up creating an IS alt though. I definitely like the idea of having an account for each faction.

I gotta say I'm glad that the PPC and LRM shenanigans aren't what they used to be then. That honestly didn't look fun at all. About to hop into my first match before I go to work tonight. As I said, feel free to add me in game!

[Wintersdark]

Parapraxis192, on 18 April 2015 - 07:17 PM, said:

Hey, thanks for the replies!

For now, I think I'm going to be saving up for Clan tech on my main account. Specifically, I'm looking at the Timberwolf as being my first purchase. I may end up creating an IS alt though. I definitely like the idea of having an account for each faction.

I gotta say I'm glad that the PPC and LRM shenanigans aren't what they used to be then. That honestly didn't look fun at all. About to hop into my first match before I go to work tonight. As I said, feel free to add me in game!

If anything, PPC's are kinda bad now excepting a couple mechs with specialized PPC quirks. The PPC's where nerfed some time back to break a dominant PPC+Autocannon meta, and the slowed the projectile (energy bolt, particle stream, whatever) velocity pretty dramatically. As such, PPC's are still powerful weapons but very difficult to use accurately at range.

Having an account per faction works very well. You get a "Cadet Bonus" for your first 25 games, extra cbills. That ends up being +8 million cbills or so, IIRC, so if you make an IS account and Clan account, you'll get that for each account.

A small "hack" if you will is you can get a free day of premium time (once per account) off the main web site. Premium time applies to the cadet bonus as well, pushing that 8m cbills to 12m cbills, assuming you play all 25 matches in that one day.

Another very good mech option particularly for a new player is the Hellbringer. It's comparable to the Timberwolf - less directly powerful, but it can carry ECM. ECM is fantastically useful for a new player, as it's both stealth and grants near complete protection from LRM's. Then add a bunch of lasers and heat sinks and you're good to go. You can't go wrong with the Timberwolf, though, if you're set on that

[Wintersdark]

Also, as someone new to MWO but comfortable with Mechwarrior, I'd highly recommend heading to Settings>Game and turning off Arm Lock, Throttle Decay, and Start in third person.

Even if you like third person, its actually a substantial disadvantage to use. Basically, its a training tool for new players to learn how legs and torsos twist independently and that's about it.

Throttle decay off so you can properly control speed, and arm lock off so you can make use of your arm's greater reach. You can bind a key to temporarily lock your arms to your torso when desired, by leaving it on all the time is generally awful.

[Parapraxis192]

Wintersdark, on 18 April 2015 - 07:35 PM, said:

Also, as someone new to MWO but comfortable with Mechwarrior, I'd highly recommend heading to Settings>Game and turning off Arm Lock, Throttle Decay, and Start in third person.

Even if you like third person, its actually a substantial disadvantage to use. Basically, its a training tool for new players to learn how legs and torsos twist independently and that's about it.

Throttle decay off so you can properly control speed, and arm lock off so you can make use of your arm's greater reach. You can bind a key to temporarily lock your arms to your torso when desired, by leaving it on all the time is generally awful.

Already done! I think I turned those off after playing around in the test maps and absolutely despising the arm-lock and throttle decay. I prefer first person anyhow, so that was fixed as well!

I'll have to do that thing with the premium time! I'll play the rest of my "cadet" games tomorrow then. The closer I can get to 15m cbills the better. I'm mostly set on the Timberwolf, although I did play one game just now with the Hellbringer and had a blast. This game is SERIOUSLY fun. Honestly I wasn't sure what I was going to think of it going into playing my first game, but I can say this is probably going to take the coveted spot of "most played game", in place of Dark Souls II PVP.

[Omi_]

A note on 3rd person view: it was a requirement from PGI's original publisher that the game contain 3rd person content and that this be a vassal to draw players into the brand.

Wait, doesn't that mean we can change it now?

[mark v92]

Parapraxis192, on 18 April 2015 - 06:34 PM, said:

1) I'm most interested in medium range and brawling type engagements. What is your personal favorite chassis for those ranges, and why? Feel free to give tips on loadouts and builds, too!

First of all when you want to buy a mech make your builds first in smurfy mechlab. This will save you a lot of time and is easier. http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab

For new players the hunchback might still be one of the easiest mechs to start with. The hunchback sp medium mech can be a nice brawler. Clan doesnt have a lot of medium options so id go for a stormcrow on the clan side.

For the inner sphere heavy id go for a thunderbolt. Either the medium pulse or the large pusle variant (check mech quirks) and for the clan heavy the timberwolf is a realy good mech.

When buying an inner sphere mech check for the quirks and hardpoints on that variant. some have really good quirks for particular weapons.

When buying clan mechs check for the hardpoints in the center torso. All other parts (omnipods) like arms can be switched out for parts from a different variant. Example: You bought the timberwolf c with the energy hardpoint in the center but you want the arms of a timberwolf prime. You can buy the prime arm seperatly in the mechlab and stick it on the c.

Parapraxis192, on 18 April 2015 - 06:34 PM, said:

2) Is it worth saving up for a Clan chassis? The MWO rendition of the Timberwolf is gorgeous, so I've been thinking of saving up for one while I was looking at the game.

While at first the price of clan mechs seem a lot higher an inner sphere mech will end up around the same price after upgrading and stuff.

Inner sphere mechs need upgrades like endo steel structure and double heat sinks and you would probably need to buy a different engine for your builds. On the clan side this is all locked equipment and as such is included in the mech price.

The real differents is that you can buy an inner sphere mech and start playing with it until you can buy the upgrades to make it better while the clan mech has a higher starting price and will take you longer before you can buy it and play with it. Inner sphere is basicly: pay half the price now (stock mech) and the other half while playing the mech (fully out loaded mech)

Parapraxis192, on 18 April 2015 - 06:34 PM, said:

3) I was going over some videos on YouTube and happened across one of a Stalker with six PPC's. Is that... a normal thing to see?

Nope this isnt normal (anymore). We now have something called heatscale. This means you can fire a max amount of that type of weapon before you get a heat penaltly. Example: 2ppc's fireing at once is the max amount you can do. fireing 3 ppc's at once will give you a heat penalty of 12.6 extra heat. So these days you will pretty much kill yourself if you fire 6 ppc's at once. This amount is different for all weapons. You can fire 6 medium lasers max without heat penalty. To check the heatscale for different weapons: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eapon_heatscale

Parapraxis192, on 18 April 2015 - 06:34 PM, said:

4) Another question related to a YouTube video I found the other day. Are LRM's still as incredible powerful as what I saw in that video? It was rather old, but the games basically looked like one big game of rocket tag.

These days they are not that powerfull anymore but they can still wreck your mech. Use cover, anti missile system or ecm (or stay in the ecm bubble of a teammate). A lot of new guys dont know how to avoid them. Try to learn that asap. An assault mech without cover vs a lrm mech is a dead assault. In the higher level of play you wont see them often since people know how to counter them.


Edit: as others have said go to settings and turn off arm lock (make toggle arm lock a key on your keyboard, it can come in handy sometimes). Also turn off start in 3d person so you dont have to press f4 all the time. Throttle decay can be turned off, depends what you like. I recommend it off tho.

Handy websites:

Build your mech here before you build it ingame. it save time and is a lot easier thrust me:http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab Note: the devs are working on bringing this type of mechlab into the game.

Want to know what is considered the best builds in the game atm? Need loadout inspiration? Take a look at the metamechs tier list: http://metamechs.com/

Edited by mark v92, 18 April 2015 - 07:57 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Parapraxis192, on 18 April 2015 - 07:41 PM, said:

Already done! I think I turned those off after playing around in the test maps and absolutely despising the arm-lock and throttle decay. I prefer first person anyhow, so that was fixed as well!

I'll have to do that thing with the premium time! I'll play the rest of my "cadet" games tomorrow then. The closer I can get to 15m cbills the better. I'm mostly set on the Timberwolf, although I did play one game just now with the Hellbringer and had a blast. This game is SERIOUSLY fun. Honestly I wasn't sure what I was going to think of it going into playing my first game, but I can say this is probably going to take the coveted spot of "most played game", in place of Dark Souls II PVP.

MWO has it's flaws, but one thing it does exceptionally well is really deliver on awesome stompy robot combat. Being knowledgable about Mechwarrior overall helps enormously, as the New Player Experience in MWO is usually pretty rough with a very steep learning curve. It's pretty easy to get discouraged quickly when brutally murdered over and over again, as there's a hell of a lot to learn. But when you understand how Mech combat works from prior games, that gets you over the worst part of the hump.

Hornsby, on 18 April 2015 - 07:45 PM, said:

A note on 3rd person view: it was a requirement from PGI's original publisher that the game contain 3rd person content and that this be a vassal to draw players into the brand.

Wait, doesn't that mean we can change it now?

Not really any reason to. It's basically harmless, no sense wasting dev time.

[Parapraxis192]

Wintersdark, on 18 April 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

MWO has it's flaws, but one thing it does exceptionally well is really deliver on awesome stompy robot combat. Being knowledgable about Mechwarrior overall helps enormously, as the New Player Experience in MWO is usually pretty rough with a very steep learning curve. It's pretty easy to get discouraged quickly when brutally murdered over and over again, as there's a hell of a lot to learn. But when you understand how Mech combat works from prior games, that gets you over the worst part of the hump.

That's probably true. It definitely makes me feel some hardcore nostalgia though. If I didn't have to work tonight I'd probably just play straight from now until morning. Ah well. Priorities and such, I guess.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Wintersdark, on 18 April 2015 - 07:30 PM, said:

A small "hack" if you will is you can get a free day of premium time (once per account) off the main web site. Premium time applies to the cadet bonus as well, pushing that 8m cbills to 12m cbills, assuming you play all 25 matches in that one day.

This is no longer true. They've rewritten the cadet bonus into achievements which are unaffected by premium time and last I heard, it was only a couple hours worth not a full day.

[dragnier1]

I will cover only "recommended" mechs and "recommended" cash purchase items as others have provided answers and the smurfy mechlab (this one's important).

Recommended items purchased with mc :
If you can afford to spend grab some and keep them aside for mechbays. You start with 4 mechbays and can obtain additionals through Community Warfare via faction loyalty points or events, but these will not be enough (we don't usually recommend selling mechs due to loss of cbills). Each mechbay you purchase with cost 300 and have been offered on discounts on several occasions.


Recommended mechs :
IS - Hunchback, Centurion, Shadow Hawk (mediums); Catafract and all 65 ton heavies. You can use them to learn the mechanics and various techniques of MWO and they generally cost less than lights and assaults to equip/upgrade. They're faster than assaults and pack more armour than lights.

Clan - Stormcrow, Hellbringer and Timberwolf are the better ones at the moment. They are quite versatile as MWO's implementation of omni-pods are "removable" parts, which means you can switch parts to modify your mech's weapon hardpoints loadout config. Do note that you still need to purchase 3 variants of the same chassis so be a little mindful if you plan to purchase parts (you might end up with extra arms, torsos, etc)

[Kotev]

I`m also veteran player since MW2 but when first started playing MWO got killed often. Then i started playing Atlas DDC it has strong armor and ECM too so for me is good starting mech. Equip it with mix weapons 2 LRM-10, 2 ER L Lasers, 2 UAC5 or AC20, endosteel armor. This is well balanced config for all ranges but most important thing is to stay with your wingmate

[Rogue Jedi]

1) for short-medium range work, Hunchback 4G AC20 + MLs in a reasonably fast and extremely agile 50 ton Mech and the Griffin 1N/3M with SRMs and Lasers are my favorite brawler Mechs, both able to at least keep up with Clan heavy Mechs, they both work great with standard engines, and have a sheild side ^{(you can set them up so that you can sacrifice your left arm and torso without loosing much combat capability)}the Firestarter works great as a short range harasser, and the Timber Wolf and Mad Dog make great medium range Mechs

2) certain Clan Mechs are great, especially the Storm Crow, Mad Dog, Hellbringer and Timber Wolf, they are worth the money but are also high priority targets and I would advise against using them until you are a bit more experienced, or you may find half the enemy team see you and drop your Mech inside 5 seconds especially the Timby and crow which are considered the 2 best Mechs in the game, and are extremely deadly in the correct hands

3) no, it used to be but when Ghost Heat (heat penalties for firing more than a specific number of weapons at once) was introduced it was made so you will suffer heat penalties for firing more than 2 PPC/ERPPCs at once, if you alpha strike once you will shut down and suffer a lot of internal damage, twice and you will die from overheat damage.

4) no, in fact LRMs are at current one of the least powerful weapons, although at some points they have been overpowered.
for LRMs to work well you need direct fire, a TAG laser and to keep line of sight on your target, if you are firing from 200-500 meters they can be quite good.

[Leone]

So, I was gonna Suggest a Shadowhawk build with a coupla Uac5s and three srm 4s, but it seems like you wanna try the clans.

Now, Purely by the numbers, I can see why you'd like the timberwolf. And for brawling, you could try a medium laser SRM build.

But for me, the Nova is the medium range brawler of the Clan mechs. I can constantly out perform my timberwolf with my novas, whether I'm in a brawling nova, or a medium range poking nova (The classic Nova Prime). But those might not be for you. Since your planning on going timberwolf, by all means, give it a go.

But if you ever start thinking you could use more Medium lasers than you'll fit on anything else.... try a nova.

~Leone, Raid Leader of the Crimson Hand.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

You might consider something like this for your first Mad Cat build.

2x cASRM6s pack some solid punch up close, and quad cMPLs make for very nice, responsive (arm mounted, with Lower Arm Actuators for maximum flexibility) short- to mid-range power. The cERLL in the CT gives you some durable firepower and the ability to reach out and touch people on those maps where your brawling kit just can't reach far enough.

For your IS alt, consider this. It runs a little hot for my taste, but it packs a real punch and you can hold off on firing the head laser (or leave it off entirely and add more ammo or another DHS). Also, this build hits very hard, though it's a tiny bit low on ammo for my taste. You can drop to a STD225 and remove FF to gain a ton of ammo, but you lose speed and one engine DHS (engine DHS are TruDubs, externals DHS are 1.4 IIRC). Generally the 250 rating is very important, as it maximizes the number of TruDubs (10).

[mark v92]

As said above for inner sphere mechs try to buy engines per 25 rating.

the 225 for example has 9 heatsinks in the engine. the 250 has 10, the 275 has 10 + 1 slot for a heatsink, the 300 has 10 + 2, the 325 has 10 + 3. you get the idea.

XL engines have some odd ones like the 255 which weight just as much as a 250.

Keep this in mind. It will also be easier to swap engines between different mechs (Since some XL engines might cost as much as an entire mech).

Aslo keep in mind you need 10 heatsinks in your mech at minimum. If you use and 225 engine with 9 heatsinks you need to stuff an additional heatsink in the mech. This is why its best to always go 250 or higher unless you cant like in some lights.

[Wintersdark]

mark v92, on 19 April 2015 - 06:45 AM, said:

Aslo keep in mind you need 10 heatsinks in your mech at minimum. If you use and 225 engine with 9 heatsinks you need to stuff an additional heatsink in the mech. This is why its best to always go 250 or higher unless you cant like in some lights.

Also.

DHS in this game are funny. You get one free per 25 points of rating in your engine up to 10, and can slot more into your engine for each 25 points past 250, so a 300 rated engine has 10 built in DHS and 2 free slots for more that won't use critical slots in your mech.

The gotcha here is that the free ones in your engine are "Trudubs", that is, they add 2 heat capacity and dissipate .2 heat per second from your mech. All other DHS you add are 1.4 heat capacity and .14 HPS dissipation. This sounds ridiculous (and it is) but be aware that pilot skills add extra heat dissipation, so for most builds (those around 18DHS total) you'll end up with them all functioning as if they were 2.0.

This is important to understand, though, because a 250 rated engine with it's 10 internal "free" DHS will give you a higher heat capacity and dissipation rate than a 225 rated engine and one extra DHS (to bring you up to the required 10) because the external DHS will be a 1.4 DHS instead of 2.0.

And, for clarity: A 300 rated engine with two extra DHS filling it's internal slots has 10 at 2.0 and 2 at 1.4 - only up to the 10 included DHS actually function at 2.0.