74 replies to this topic

[mxlm]

Prussian Havoc, on 27 April 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:

It is called "Combined Arms" and if PGI has not yet implemented Thunder LRMs (mine-laying munitions) nor Arrow IV nor Long Tom Artillery (which is not those firecrackers PGI calls Artilery Strike and Airstrike) nor balanced Indirect Fire to within even 50% of its effectiveness in FASA TableTop... then it is no wonder Direct-Fire guys like yourself have an overinflated sense of self-worth within the game. (The fact that you call for the extinction of Indirect Fire is hilarious.)

There is a reason MURDERBALL does not work in FASA's BattleTech... it is called Area Effect Weapons.

The closer PGI brings MWO to BattleTech the more Direct Fire guys will need to learn about Combined Arms Warfare.

So in your mind, the people who understand and adapt to the way the game works now are unlikely to be able to understand and adapt to hypothetical new features that PGI might someday implement? And that in contrast, the people who currently do not understand the way the game works and do not adopt best practices are more likely to be flexible in the future?

Okay!

[Pat Kell]

Wow Phaelon, you have really managed to misinterpret my meaning. LRM's in the hands of a skill pilot can be very devastating and it is typically done at 3-400 meters as you said that you like to fire them. You sound like some of the rare pilots who can use these weapons effectively, which I alluded too in my earlier post. The comment you make about sharing armor isn't intended to say that we all line up together and walk forward into the enemy...;that's just silly. What I am saying is that if you are sitting in the back with LRM's, Lasers, PPC's or any other weapon and not taking some of the incoming fire, you are making it easier for the enemy to focus down your friends. Once they are down, you are now alone and wondering why you have no support. Battle is fluid and people have to learn to jump into the fray, take some of the incoming damage and rotate out. By the way LRM's currently work, people more often than not, tend to sit in the back lobbing ineffective rounds at people while their friends are dying. I am trying to teach them how to play and I am not one of those guys who cuss and yell over VOIP when people are doing this. I am the person trying to encourage people to move up and help the team. I put LRM's down because of the typical way that people use them. It is perfectly viable to be on or very near the main engagement with LRM's and as you have experienced, it is the best use of LRM's as once you get within 400 or less meters of who you are firing at, it becomes very difficult to get into cover. But even with LRM's the amount of damage spread that is involved tends to make other weapons more effective. I didn't make the rules, I just play too them. Oh and the snarky comment about losing...I don't lose often and when I do, I try to figure out what we as a team can do better (including myself ) to try and prevent that. I would think that you and your team do the same thing.

Oh and btw that match that you are showing is an organized team versus a bunch of pugs. It's a little easier to make LRM's matter in matches like that than when you are facing an organized 10-12 man team. If you are going to pug it, sure bring all the LRM's you want but understand that when you face an organized team, they are most likely going to melt you if they have any semblance of skill.

Edited by Pat Kell, 28 April 2015 - 10:33 PM.

[sycocys]

1. There is a Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge difference between a pilot that is skilled with lrms (and the CW maps) and the average lrm'er coming out of standard queue.

2. There is an even larger gap between lrms being effective for IS and for Clan. One side has ecm superiority basically by default.

3. Concerning #2 - you'll notice this is a guide for IS pilots coming into CW from standard queue.

4. We don't hate LRMs - we want to see people getting int CW with the right foot forward.
Walking in thinking you are going to be some support mech hero standing at the gates simply doesn't work on the IS side unless you magically match up against the worst of the worst every single match.

5. Coming to CW thinking you are going to have that low tier elo magic working in your favor is only going to make you hate CW. If you spend all your time trying to play the game solo then want to hop into the raid mode completely unprepared to work as a team or gear yourself appropriately to encourage success as a pug, you are going to have the same result as if you walked into a raid on other games totally unprepared, with sub par gearing on - fail over and over until you get fed up and quit.

6. If you want LRMs in your deck - great! But before you bring them you should spend a lot (300+ matches) learning how to get your own reliable targets, how to choose appropriate targets, how to make every single shot either land on target or burn their AMS out.

"Incoming Missiles" isn't support in this mode - it's letting people cool down and not get shot by the rest of your team - works in pug queue because the drops are mixed and you are far less likely to have the other 11 people trying to engage in combat simultaneously.

7. If you are too stubborn to take advice from people who are veterans of this game and/or this mode - and think that the problem with the mode is you get matched up against 12 mans/CW needs a split queue - then you are simply not ready to be engaging in CW/raid mode yet.

I hate to say that because CW does need more population, but it needs a population of people that are ready to move beyond the dumbed down game play that the standard queue has evolved into since the split queues started.

There needs to be a line drawn in the sand that splits the casuals that just want to shoot randomly at stuff and the people that want to engage in a more competitive environment - unfortunately for most of the casuals to realize that the game can be deeper than standard queue they will need to get beat in the head a few times until they realize their skill level isn't as up to par as their elo rating has been leading them to believe.

Edited by sycocys, 29 April 2015 - 06:21 AM.

[Romeo Deluxe]

That's not the right way to look at it. The solo queue and CW are just two different games. If they are good in the solo queue, then they are just good at it is all. They have to learn the difference and adjust to it. It's not as big a leap if you were a brand new player. However, I believe even a brand new player can choose to work their way up almost exclusively in CW and rarely go in the solo queue.

[sycocys]

Actually you can be plenty "good" in solo queue and be in the low elo tiers, the downside of having the split queue system combined with a nearly wide open gated matchmaker (because people didn't want slower matches built around their elo).

That's just the elo portion - totally discounting all the terrible habits that solo standard droppers adopt when they launch primarily into that queue.

[Prussian Havoc]

Both modes Public Queue and CW are unique enough (thank goodness!) that each necessitates its own brand of tactics and Mech builds.

While I would like to have CW maps available for Public Queues, I think it is a strength of the game that gamers who prefer one mode over the other can develop appropriate and decisive Strategies and Mech Builds tailored to the nuances of that particular mode.

Depth and immersion benefit greatly but you are right, gamers that are transitioning one to another should really be more aware of the unique nature of each mode, imo.

[Fat Amy]

sycocys, on 21 April 2015 - 02:57 AM, said:

... take advantage of clan weakness.

There is no such thing. That is why you fail.

[Connor Sellock]

Fat Amy, on 30 April 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

There is no such thing. That is why you fail.

Of course there is a Clan weakness - for this Event it is the Clan gamer population.

It is incontrovertible that PGI so needed to "buff" the Clan effort during the Event that:

1). PGI offered free, unhindered AMNESTY to all Inner Sphere Solo gamers who wanted to come to the Clans and augment the Clan's inordinately low population base. Queue for the Inner Sphere were 50-60-70 teams deep over the first few days of the Event before the AMNESTY kicked in.

2). By only allowing one sector up for contention at any one time, PGI castrated the Inner Sphere numeric advantage. All the clans had to do in any 10-minute span of time throughout the whole Event was find 10-gamers on planet Earth who would sign in and play CW as Clanners. There was ZERO ghost drops by PGI design - this was CLEARLY a PGI buff to the Clans.

3). By denying the Inner Sphere a single "Attack" mission for an entire 144-hour Event, PGI neutered the advantage the Inner Sphere has in Light Mechs and Light Mech Tactics (affectionately known as the Light Rush.) the reason Clans HATE the IS Light Rush is because it is an effective counter to the Clan CW-Trimity of Timbers, Stormcrows and Hellbringers. Both the Clan Trinity and Is Light Rushes can take down Defenses as simply as following a recipe 95% of the time.



So you see...


Did the Clans win?


Or did PGI so hamstring the Inner Sphere that it was inevitable the Clan's cumulative advantages would hand IS a loss?




Two sides of the same debate, odds are where your pilot sits will frame your reaction and subsequent comments.

[Pat Kell]

I know that once I read the rules for this event and realized that the IS wouldn't be able to get their light rush wins and the population difference would in some ways actually hinder the IS, I felt like the clans had a great chance of winning. The big surprise to me is that it was as close as it was. The IS light rush is a very effective tactic, especially against an unorganized team, so essentially taking that away from the IS virtually guaranteed a clan victory. There were some great fights to be had though so thanks to all who decided to give their all to win. Was a lot of fun.

[M A S E]

LRM's are amazing if you own a Mad Dog. I pug with mine in CW and it wrecks every time. Just gotta have a mech with torso missile hard points, a tag in the arm and at least 1 arm actuator. The more arm/ hand actuators the more you can take full advantage of free-look. You can lock your torso into a required position to fired at better angles. If you got arm actuators, you can use your LRM boats more effectively in tight situations. I'm not sure how well free-look firing LRM's works on a keyboard.. I use a Logitech G 13 and 600 to play.

My first match today after the event the score was even (high 20's) until I brought my 6 LRM-5 MDD with 2 er mediums, 2 er small, tag, arm and hand actuators and 2600+ in ammo and LRM 5 modules. It was a hold-out on Hellebore Springs with both units fighting in the center of Beta lane. My mech was taunted while I was on my way, took out 4 mechs and we pushed the offensive and won the game. The next match the players I was with brought a few MDD's of their own. I was just a wee little pug.
Regardless what people say, A weapon is only as good as the person who wields it.

Edited by M A S E, 30 April 2015 - 10:35 PM.

[Prussian Havoc]

M A S E, on 30 April 2015 - 10:20 PM, said:

LRM's are amazing if you own a Mad Dog. I pug with mine in CW and it wrecks every time. Just gotta have a mech with torso missile hard points, a tag in the arm and at least 1 arm actuator. The more arm/ hand actuators the more you can take full advantage of free-look. You can lock your torso into a required position to fired at better angles. If you got arm actuators, you can use your LRM boats more effectively in tight situations. I'm not sure how well free-look firing LRM's works on a keyboard.. I use a Logitech G 13 and 600 to play.

My first match today after the event the score was even (high 20's) until I brought my 6 LRM-5 MDD with 2 er mediums, 2 er small, tag, arm and hand actuators and 2600+ in ammo and LRM 5 modules. It was a hold-out on Hellebore Springs with both units fighting in the center of Beta lane. My mech was taunted while I was on my way, took out 4 mechs and we pushed the offensive and won the game. The next match the players I was with brought a few MDD's of their own. I was just a wee little pug.
Regardless what people say, A weapon is only as good as the person who wields it.

Excellent post and timeless quote, "A weapon is only as good as the person who wields it."

Many here will agree with the basis for such a statement.

Others? ...well, Haters are gonna hate, now aren't they.

[Fat Amy]

Connor Sellock, on 30 April 2015 - 09:27 PM, said:

Yadayada...

Did the Clans win?


..Yadayada.

Yes. We did.

[PerfectDuck]

So why doesn't light rush work when defending? I mean, speaking as if I played 55 games and won 52 of them while specifically calling for my team to take lights on the first wave throughout the Tukayyid event.

[SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX]

So i build 3 decks for what?to wait 30 mins in queue for each match?in best cases 20?
Me as a pug can only say HELL NO, I RATHER AVOID THE FACTION BUTTON.

[Pat Kell]

When we speak of a light rush perfectduck, we are referring to the tactic of taking all light and rushing the generators and omega. Your tactic of taking all your lights on the first wave can be very effective as well and I saw it several times throughout the event but that tactic would require a different name I think as the objective of it is different. Maybe a light assault:)