292 replies to this topic

[Stealth Fox]

Tennex, on 25 April 2015 - 06:36 AM, said:

Don't argue minutia. Big picture is that clans are winning more. And most successful clan builds use lasers

The ONLY Successful clan builds use lasers! Because out crappy lasers are all we have any more. And yeah, like I said, they may be winning more, but you have to take into account you have a lot of low skill, no team work Pugs (who typically roll IS) right now playing because it is an event.

Events always bring out the bad players in force.

[Summon3r]

+1 op, you either play the ridiculously boring clan meta (3 mechs maybe) or you get rolled up in shite boxes

[Tennex]

Seph MacLeod, on 25 April 2015 - 06:39 AM, said:

And yeah, like I said, they may be winning more, but you have to take into account you have a lot of low skill, no team work Pugs (who typically roll IS) right now playing because it is an event.

Events always bring out the bad players in force.

That may or may not be the case. And depending on how much the clans are winning, it may or may not validate that argument. Just for an example a 10 point difference in elo would not account for a 90% win rate.

But regardless, Russ has the data on how many pugs/group drops are on each side, and unless he reveals that data all we have is speculation.

[sneeking]

They have never attracted me in mwo.

The only clan mech I realy loved was fire moth with flamers machine guns and mask.

give me that and ill defect from is to clan...

[Tahribator]

Me and my unit do very well in Clan 'Mechs. We were on the IS side last week before the event and to be honest, I don't feel like I'm fighting in "inferior" 'Mechs at all.

Most of the good quirked IS 'Mechs have serious flaws (Dragons, Wolvies, Stalkers and so on) and if you exploit those flaws, they're very easy to take out. The good Clan 'Mechs on the other hand are just "good" all-round. They don't have an Achilles' heel. Speed, survivability and mobility are all there.

The reason why you don't see Dires in Clan decks is because it just doesn't make sense to bring a Dire. Why bring a Dire and gimp your drop deck with silly Clan lights, when you can do godly combos such as TBR+3xSCR, 2xHBR+2xSCR, 2xMDD+HBR+SCR? With these decks you'll have 4 good 'Mechs on the field instead of 1 good, 1 mediocre and 2 bad. The CW forces you to optimize and people do that.

IS have their good and bad 'Mechs and Clans do as well. There are some imbalances here and there, but I just can't agree with the notion of "Clan 'Mechs are awful".

[Stealth Fox]

Tennex, on 25 April 2015 - 06:43 AM, said:

That may or may not be the case. And depending on how much the clans are winning, it may or may not validate that argument. Just for an example a 10 point difference in elo would not account for a 90% win rate.

But regardless, Russ has the data on how many pugs/group drops are on each side, and unless he reveals that data all we have is speculation.

Tahribator, on 25 April 2015 - 06:48 AM, said:

Me and my unit do very well in Clan 'Mechs. We were on the IS side last week before the event and to be honest, I don't feel like I'm fighting in "inferior" 'Mechs at all.

Most of the good quirked IS 'Mechs have serious flaws (Dragons, Wolvies, Stalkers and so on) and if you exploit those flaws, they're very easy to take out. The good Clan 'Mechs on the other hand are just "good" all-round. They don't have an Achilles' heel. Speed, survivability and mobility are all there.

The reason why you don't see Dires in Clan decks is because it just doesn't make sense to bring a Dire. Why bring a Dire and gimp your drop deck with silly Clan lights, when you can do godly combos such as TBR+3xSCR, 2xHBR+2xSCR, 2xMDD+HBR+SCR? With these decks you'll have 4 good 'Mechs on the field instead of 1 good, 1 mediocre and 2 bad. The CW forces you to optimize and people do that.

IS have their good and bad 'Mechs and Clans do as well. There are some imbalances here and there, but I just can't agree with the notion of "Clan 'Mechs are awful".

It is not speculation that by far most of the clan mechs are bad. T-wolfs and StormCrows aside (Which are not that great any more even comparatively) You are lucky to do well against any one in a Mad Dog, Nova or a Hell Bringer, people complain about the ECM on the hellbringer a lot but they don't realize that IS has many more and DIFFERENT options for ECM, The Clan Lights are a joke.

The Summoner and Gargles are worthless near about.

The Nova STILL suffers from being far to squishy and not able to mount any of the high instant damage weapons the Hunchback has. (love Hunchie, FEAR the Hunchie D=<)

The Warhawk is alright but it struggles from being the size of the Whale, Whales get focused down faster then King Crabs and Atlas.

The Mad Dog, my personal favorite, is very very nitch.

3 builds out of 9 does not a good roster make.

No one would be happy if in say a fighting game only had 3 worthwhile characters on it and the rest where trash.

[Yosharian]

DjPush, on 25 April 2015 - 05:47 AM, said:

I usually play IS mechs. I went on a clan contract for Tukiyyd because I wanted to see how clan mechs perform in CW. For the most part CW has been a riot. I have lost as many matches as I have won. I really have no complaints about this event. Those clan mechs though.

I have been trying several different weapons systems with a variety of different load outs. The only thing that is successful in doing a lot of damage and being the most effective are laser builds. Even then the beam duration is too long. The game is flooded with ECM mechs so LRMs are useless even with TAG. C-UACs are largly ineffective because they jam too frequently and their burst rate is awful. Streak SRMs are great. However, even if you equip CAP you still have the issue of overlaping ECM. ERPPC's are just too damn hot to equip more than 1.

Direwolves are non existant in CW which I think is a little strange. Well, not really I guess because PGI has made every map into a funnel of death assault mode zerg rush. (Ok so I have one complaint about CW). Which is a death sentance for the slow moving target.

I love this game but I think PGI is ruining it with these damn quirks. I will never play clan mechs again in a CW event. Why would I when I can play a heavy mech that has AC5's that fire faster then UAC's. Why would I when I can play a medium that fires a gauss rifle like an AC2. Why would I pilot a clan mech when I can take several IS mechs that can fire lasers without a severe heat penalty or over the top beam duration.

As an avid IS pilot I have to say..... Clan mechs are under powered and IS mechs have just become a bastardized version of their former selves. Granted some of the IS mechs needed help. However, in my opinion, I think PGI took it too far.

This is just my opinion... Take it as that and not actual fact. Remember that before you go all white knight.

What you have to realise is that clan Lasers are simply in a class of their own, especially when combined with comparatively light clan gauss weaponry. No other clan weapon even comes close. Dump everything else and just go all-out lasers.

Once you start running clan Laser boats you will understand the true power of clan mechs.

[Stealth Fox]

Yosharian, on 25 April 2015 - 06:58 AM, said:

What you have to realise is that clan Lasers are simply in a class of their own, especially when combined with comparatively light clan gauss weaponry. No other clan weapon even comes close. Dump everything else and just go all-out lasers.

Once you start running clan Laser boats you will understand the true power of clan mechs.

Yes, the "let me stare right at you for a long long time while I slowly slather my damage all over you while I hope you don't have any IS weapons at all aimed at me and then have to run away behind cover for a minute to wait to start to cool down" power.

[Averen]

Seph MacLeod, on 25 April 2015 - 07:00 AM, said:

Yes, the "let me stare right at you for a long long time while I slowly slather my damage all over you while I hope you don't have any IS weapons at all aimed at me and then have to run away behind cover for a minute to wait to start to cool down" power.

Oh quit your whining. The best IS mechs are the STK-4N and probably the BNC-3E. A sluggish mech shooting a two laser salvo and another slow assault relying on LL and AC5. Yeah, those are some real insta alpha's and they surely can get to cover in a flash after popping those huge alphas.

Otherwise clan lasers are more heat efficient, the constant preaching of this fallacy just shows how little many people actually know aobut IS/clan mechs. IS coolness only goes for a small number of ballistic-only and partly srm-based mechs. And IS SRM-boats can overheat relatively fast, as should everyone know who tried something like the SRM-stalker.

Should be easy to see when almost every clan mech can carry around >50% more DHS than it's IS equivalents. That Warhawk people are complaining about runs notably quite cooler without quirks than said STK-4N with quirks.

Edited by Averen, 25 April 2015 - 07:18 AM.

[Bulletsponge0]

Averen, on 25 April 2015 - 07:13 AM, said:

Oh quit your whining. The best IS mechs are the STK-4N and probably the BNC-3E. A sluggish mech shooting a two laser salvo and another slow assault relying on LL and AC5. Yeah, those are some real insta alpha's and they surely can get to cover in a flash after popping those huge alphas.

Otherwise clan lasers are more heat efficient, the constant preaching of this fallacy just shows how little many people actually know aobut IS/clan mechs. IS coolness only goes for a small number of ballistic-only and partly srm-based mechs. And IS SRM-boats can overheat relatively fast, as should everyone know who tried something like the SRM-stalker.

Should be easy to see when almost every clan mech can carry around &gt;50% more DHS than it's IS equivalents. That Warhawk people are complaining about runs notably quite cooler without quirks than said STK-4N with quirks.

I lol'd

[Stealth Fox]

Averen, on 25 April 2015 - 07:13 AM, said:

Oh quit your whining. The best IS mechs are the STK-4N and probably the BNC-3E. A sluggish mech shooting a two laser salvo and another slow assault relying on LL and AC5. Yeah, those are some real insta alpha's and they surely can get to cover in a flash after popping those huge alphas.

Otherwise clan lasers are more heat efficient, the constant preaching of this fallacy just shows how little many people actually know aobut IS/clan mechs. IS coolness only goes for a small number of ballistic-only and partly srm-based mechs. And IS SRM-boats can overheat relatively fast, as should everyone know who tried something like the SRM-stalker.

Should be easy to see when almost every clan mech can carry around >50% more DHS than it's IS equivalents. That Warhawk people are complaining about runs notably quite cooler without quirks than said STK-4N with quirks.

Um... are.. are you serious? .. you're serious right? .. please tell me you are in fact, not serious with what you just stated. Because I can get you the evidence you are wrong if you like. Not to mention 4 other IS mechs that can completely and totally wreck face.

[CutterWolf]

Wow, really? Do you even know why the most successful builds are laser heavy? It's not because our lasers are OP or light or take up less crits. Its do to the fact that we have "locked" components, most notably "locked heat sinks".

Also have you checked out are super duper AC's? You know, the ones we don't use cause they suck so hard, but if we did use them they need ammo right? Where in the hell do you think were going to put it at? Can't remove all those LOCKED components taking up all those slots can we?

So what does that leave us with? Hmmmm......let m see now, oh ya Lasers!! Also, I know of several IS counter parts that can and do carry more lasers than my Clan mechs do and guess what? They are dealing far more DPS than mine and are much more heat efficient and in some cases out range me.

Lets take a look at laser duration, all IS lasers and a very short duration, in fact your pulse lasers fire so fast that they can be considered "front loaded damage weapons" since they can apply all their damage to a single panel. I bet you and most IS players don't even know that your Large Pulse laser fires 0.11 faster than our Small Pulse laser? Do you know how insane that is?

Now add in the fact that the IS Med pulse laser and IS Small pulse laser both weight the same as their Clan counter parts and take up the same crit space as their Clan counter parts. So for the extra couple of points of damage and range my Med & Small pulse lasers duration is 3 times as long, 3 times the chance that its damage will be spread out over the target and create more heat. What a deal eh?

Edited by CutterWolf, 25 April 2015 - 08:08 AM.

[DjPush]

Tennex, on 25 April 2015 - 06:17 AM, said:

Tell that to the clan win rate in this event
Clan Lasers are too good.

In metagame its min max, and the outliers are what makes it

Too good? Can they beat out a quirked T-bolt with LP or MP lasers. Or how about a Firestarter with 8 small pullse or MP lasers, a Blackjack with 8 medium lasers or any other of the IS mechs with a -25% or -12.5% heat generation quirk. Or even better, range quirks that make medium pulse lasers reach out to 350 meters and ERLL that have a range of 800 meters. Cooldown quirks with modules that give a 30% reduction in cooldown time. Please...

[Averen]

Seph MacLeod, on 25 April 2015 - 07:27 AM, said:

Um... are.. are you serious? .. you're serious right? .. please tell me you are in fact, not serious with what you just stated. Because I can get you the evidence you are wrong if you like. Not to mention 4 other IS mechs that can completely and totally wreck face.

You aren't presenting anything, so you are just another whiner on the mwo forums by definition. GG

[Mcgral18]

Averen, on 25 April 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

You aren't presenting anything, so you are just another whiner on the mwo forums by definition. GG

Which...is exactly what you did?

Classy.

[Zoid]

Seph MacLeod, on 25 April 2015 - 06:37 AM, said:

So ..you are agreeing with me? or what, because That's what I just said, clans are probably using teamwork while IS pubs just rush in and die.

No, I'm saying it's a silly argument since it goes both ways. You can't say the tech is imbalanced one way or another unless you account for teamwork. Just saying "well clans are more organized and that's why they win more" is dumb because there are premades on both sides roflstomping pugs, so unless you're going to compare pug vs pug and premade vs premade, this is meaningless.

[XX Sulla XX]

Oh I see now.

[charov]

Awful? No. However, I agree they're quite boring due to the current status of C-AC, which forces to boat them or run laser only.

[JohnnyWayne]

Direwolfs are non existant because PGI balanced weight so that if you take one you can at max bring 1 stormcrow and 2 useless slots of kitfoxes.

[CutterWolf]

Want proof? Go into the mech lab and take a look with your own eyes. All the proof you need is right there, just pull all the IS lasers and write down their range, weight, crits, damage, heat and do the same for the Clans. Then take a look at the IS quirks and adjust your math also don't forget to make mathematical adjustments for pilot skill level 5 (range & cool down) and last but far from least don't forget about IS large lasers having NO ghost heat when firing 3 at the same time. Once your all done with that do it all over again for the Clan lasers and when you get to the ghost heat remember that Clan ERL's have ghost heat if we fire more than 2 at a time.

Please come back and post your findings. I already know what your going to find out so please don't come back and try to post "false" information..

Edited by CutterWolf, 25 April 2015 - 08:22 AM.