292 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

In terms of assaults being used or not used in CW, I told'ya so MWO forums. I tried to warn you that tonnage limits weren't the second coming of Jesus Christ incarnate, but nobody wanted to listen. Now you reap what you sow.

I guess the upcoming Arctic Cheetah and perhaps Shadow Cat will help free up dropdeck weight for fatties, but my point still stands.

[Weeny Machine]

El Bandito, on 25 April 2015 - 06:21 AM, said:

I am sure the Clans are winning Tukayyid with skill alone. Yep.

Of course. All the pros on this board agreet a long time ago that: "it is only about the pilot, not the mech"

[Wrathful Scythe]

Clan and IS are at a good place now balance wise.

That said, clans suffer from having no variety and it gets stale pretty fast.

ERPPCs are only usable with good quirks because they are long range weapons with slow projectile speed, which doesn't make sense for sane people. Still, PPCs paired with Gauss is brutal if used right. (One of favourite CW builds)

UACs offer good dps (if they don't jam) but force you to face your enemy down -> you take to much damage. They aren't bad but the downside is to much. They are good if you can mount 4 or more of them but there is only one mech who can do this.... and this mech sucks in CW for obvious reasons.

SRMs are pretty good. The weight really lets those shine. Sadly, brawling has become pretty hard because it takes 2-3 alphas from almost any mech to incapacitate. And brawling makes you a target for 2-3 mechs so there goes that. But clanmechs are fast, so in pug queue there are no problems. On the other hand, in CW you can forget those SRMs. Maybe in a straight brawling push but range still trumps brawling in CW.

LRMs are bad, like extremely bad. On both sides. I can't even understand why people even bother using those. With the overabundance of ECM mechs and the slow speed of rockets and the spread, it's just not a good weapon system. There are times were LRMs shine but those moments are seldom. I cringe everytime I see a Direwolf or a Kingcrab mounting LRMs as their main weaponsystem.

So that leaves the lasers as the last contender. Long range, high damage (if you aim well), and manageable heat if you have cover. The long duration makes it hard to use effectively against good enemys but the damage is still applied. The weapons are pretty light but require many heatsinks. But there are no "real" downsides, so it is the most used weapon in CW and in pug.

And the thing with our holy trinity (TBR - SCR - HBR) ... the IS comp trinity consists of Firestarters, Thunderbolts and Stalkers... so there's that.
The IS side just has more bad apples with LRM Crabs and XL Atlas's. The current challenge makes it clear that the clan players are generally more comp focused because of the disparity of "good builds" on each side.
I've seen so many XL Assaults today with LRMs who run into our team just to be vaporized.

[InspectorG]

Nova and Summoner, RIP.

[Stealth Fox]

Averen, on 25 April 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

You aren't presenting anything, so you are just another whiner on the mwo forums by definition. GG

Me, A whiner, when I was asking you if you are serious or not, yeah.. sure, According to you only the Stalker and Banshee are worth using? What about the Dragon and its rapid fire low heat instant damage ACs? You know.. the things clans have a crappy variant of? What about the Thunder Bolt? STILL quite deadly and able to bring a heavy heavy punch, and yes.. even a full on alpha to the field while moving at a good pace. Oh yeah, and what about the Black Jacks, the Jagers, The freaking lag shield brawler FireStarters that can easily carry a 22 alpha, run literal circles around the target mech and focus on that deliciously under armored backside?

Oh and that lovely short burn, high damage, long range, 4 alpha no ghost heat Large Lasers the IS has now as opposed to the

long burn, high heat, shorter range, 2 alpha with out ghost heat Clan Large lasers.

If you think there are only two mechs the IS can use to poor on the hurt, you're either not playing the game, not paying attention to the forums, not a good pilot, or just a blind fool who wants to "h8 on da clambs" because 'reasons'

The Thunderbolt was the only mech I ever said was out right broken and the firestarter still needs to be toned down, but rarely have I EVER said IS needs nerfs, Just that the lack luster and trash clan mechs need to be fixed to help out.

Zoid, on 25 April 2015 - 08:06 AM, said:

No, I'm saying it's a silly argument since it goes both ways. You can't say the tech is imbalanced one way or another unless you account for teamwork. Just saying "well clans are more organized and that's why they win more" is dumb because there are premades on both sides roflstomping pugs, so unless you're going to compare pug vs pug and premade vs premade, this is meaningless.

I never said any side was broken in that comment, I just said the only reason the clans had the high ground (Had.. they don't last time i checked) was because of pugs ... being pugs, against competent teams.

[LordBraxton]

MWO's faction balance issues are 90% internal

I will remind the OP however, that there are many more obsolete IS mechs than clan

Each faction has 2-4 competetive chassis and that's it

Clan is labeled OP because their 2-4 best chassis happen to be the 2-4 best in the game

really both factions need a huge internal balance pass

(I play both factions, but only buy 1 mech per clan chassis, and they outperform my IS chassis who are mastered)

Edited by LordBraxton, 25 April 2015 - 09:16 AM.

[Ace Selin]

LOL at Clanners trying to downplay the 3 best mechs in the game, the Timberwolf, Stormcrow & Direwolf, plus the almost as strong and for CW very helpful Hellbringer mech. These wreck IS mechs at many ranges. The only mechs I hear IS able to compete are Stalker 4N, Griffin 3M & Tbolts. So on the front of great mechs the Clans are still infront.

Edited by Ace Selin, 25 April 2015 - 09:27 AM.

[Stealth Fox]

Ace Selin, on 25 April 2015 - 09:25 AM, said:

LOL at Clanners trying to downplay the 3 best mechs in the game, the Timberwolf, Stormcrow & Direwolf, plus the almost as strong and for CW very helpful Hellbringer mech. These wreck IS mechs at many ranges. The only mechs I hear IS able to compete are Stalker 4N, Griffin 3M & Tbolts. So on the front of great mechs the Clans are still infront.

The hellbringer is amazing? really? ECM that much of a problem for you scrub? How about you actually look at what your IS mechs can do instead of bunching up your panties, cramming them up your butt and then crying clans are OP just cause everyone else is doing it.

Oh, I like how you also just listed another mech generally looked over by the forums as a threat to clans

And Gryphon to the list of Stalker, Grasshopper, Jager, BlackJack, Dragon, the fricken Thunderbolt, and the ever popular FireStarter.

But no, oooh QQ, QQ, Timberwolves, OMGAWD!.. its not like you can't shoot off their damn arms easily with your shorter burn time lasers, Insta damage not crap ACs and the like. ..nooooo.

Have you seriously not seen what a Dragon can do to any of those mechs if it even gets the slightest drop on it? It's not pretty (unless you are in the dragon, then it is VERY pretty)

Keep crying.

[LordBraxton]

Seph MacLeod, on 25 April 2015 - 09:34 AM, said:

scrub scrub scrub

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! guys! he thinks hoppers, blackjacks, and dragons are OP!

LOLOL!

LOLOLOLOOLOLOL

[Rampancy]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Do not try to downplay the Hellbringer's usefulness for CW. It is a stellar CW mech.

[Mawai]

I find most clan mechs to be pretty average compared to the average IS mechs. They have their drawbacks and advantages. They generally aren't as good as the over quirked IS mechs and are fairly comparable in many ways to the middle of the pack IS mechs. This is just my opinion based on my play experience of both clan and IS mechs.

I have Kitfox, Nova, Summoner, Dire Wolf and I picked up 3 variants of the Stormcrow when they had the big cbill sale. If I was using just my first four clan mechs in CW, I think I would completely share the opinion of the OP.

However, that opinion would ignore the Stormcrow, Timberwolf, Hellbringer and Dire Wolf. Dire Wolf is uncommon in CW due to tonnage limits ... the ideal clan drop deck is usually something like 3 Stormcrows and a Timberwolf ... and it rocks.

These four clan mechs are arguably the best mechs in the game. They can stand up against comparable tonnage and higher in many cases. The Hellbringer is included in the list due to ECM and the benefit it brings to the mech and the team.

Ignoring these four mechs when looking at the clans in CW is essentially ignoring the entire question of balance in CW. Clans are good in CW at least in part because they have the best mechs in the game ... but if you don't have those mechs then playing clans can be lackluster ... and it is very easy to walk away with the impression that the clan mechs just don't stack up.

P.S. One other thing I have noticed is that, for me, playing clan mechs needs a more methodical play style to be most effective. The longer burn times mean having to plan approaches and shots better ... to take more advantage of torso twisting to time my shot vs the shots from opposing mechs, to manage heat far more ... but when you do that the mechs can be very effective .. even the more lackluster ones.

[Monkey Lover]

Play timbers or crows everything else sucks because Pgi neFred weapons other than dealing with the main problem timber. So now the timber is ok and all other mechs are junky when you compare them.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 25 April 2015 - 09:46 AM.

[CutterWolf]

Ace Selin, I notice you completely forgot to mention the, Firestarter, Raven, Jenner and Spider which the Clans have no answer for? How nice of you to forget that fact eh?

[FupDup]

CutterWolf, on 25 April 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

Ace Selin, I notice you completely forgot to mention the, Firestarter, Raven, Jenner and Spider which the Clans have no answer for? How nice of you to forget that fact eh?

Jenners aren't a meta light anymore (except perhaps the Oxide?) and Spiders have never been a meta light to begin with (not enough hardpoints).

For the Firestarter, the Clan Arctic Cheetah is coming with Wave 3...

Edited by FupDup, 25 April 2015 - 09:46 AM.

[Burktross]

Mister Blastman, on 25 April 2015 - 06:28 AM, said:

Quirks are dumb. PGI should fix their game instead of cover it with bandaids.

What else can you do to fix inherently bad mechs?
Short of complete geometry changes, at least.

[Stealth Fox]

LordBraxton, on 25 April 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! GUYS! I'M PUTTING WORDS IN HIS MOUTH!
IMMATURE IMMATURE IMMATURE IMMATURE

Did I SAY OP? Or did I say they can bring the hurt and compete? Park your fricken rolfcopter, sit down, don't put words in my mouth and discuss like an adult or get the hell out.

[LordBraxton]

Seph MacLeod, on 25 April 2015 - 09:47 AM, said:

Did I SAY OP? Or did I say they can bring the hurt and compete? Park your fricken rolfcopter, sit down, don't put words in my mouth and discuss like an adult or get the hell out.

this guy thinks hoppers, blackjacks, and dragons can compete with twolves and scrows??

LOLOLOLOLOL!

I agree that thunderbolts and stalkers can, but hoppers are terribad, and blackjacks and dragons are the kinds of mechs that perform well in pugs only

Edited by LordBraxton, 25 April 2015 - 09:50 AM.

[Stealth Fox]

LordBraxton, on 25 April 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

this guy thinks hoppers, blackjacks, and dragons can compete with twolves and scrows??

LOLOLOLOLOL! (Confirmation of immaturity acquired)

Yes, and if you don't you're a crap pilot and can't use the mech to half its potential, It is a well known fact that T Wolfs over heat and shut down more then the original xbox 360. Storm Crows are fast and carry a punch, but they still are mid armored mechs, and can have their limbs clipped.

Instant damage non crap ACs from IS? .. shorter burn times and quicker recycles? . yeaaah.. IS definitely has the edge on damage dealing right now.

[FupDup]

Burktross, on 25 April 2015 - 09:47 AM, said:

What else can you do to fix inherently bad mechs?
Short of complete geometry changes, at least.

Many mechs have issues other than geometry, like hardpoints (not enough, wrong type, and/or not mounted on their shoulders), not being the highest weight in their class, not being a heavy or assault, unoptimized base chassis (Omnimechs), sub-250 engine limit, etc.

Geometry would however help a number of mechs, like the Mist Lynx...

Spoiler

Edited by FupDup, 25 April 2015 - 09:56 AM.

[Burktross]

FupDup, on 25 April 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

Many mechs have issues other than geometry, like hardpoints (not enough, wrong type, and/or not mounted on their shoulders), not being the highest weight in their class, not being a heavy or assault, unoptimized base chassis (Omnimechs), sub-250 engine limit, etc.

Geometry would however help a number of mechs, like the Mist Lynx...

Spoiler

The only remediable thing on that list is amount and placement, though. I don't think that'd be enough for certain chassis.