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Stop The Thought That Is Brawls Better


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#1 luxebo

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 05:49 PM

BECAUSE IT CLEARLY ISN'T CORRECT IN ANY CASE!

They actually brawl better in most if not all cases. A Stormcrow can have FIVE SRM/SSRMs along with a head laser, while being TEN tons under a Catapult A1, and THIRTY TONS under a STK-5M, likely with the same loadout and going 40 kph slower! A Timber can outpace ANY heavy except other Clan heavies, along with having a bigger alpha than assaults normally can contain. A Mad Dog can also rub it in the face with 6 SRMs along with some back up lasers while being 5 tons less than the Catapult and have more than 1000 damage worth of SRMs/SSRMs compared to the Catapult.

So stop brawling use 4Ns and dual gauss and stuff to try to trade enemies until they get free TBR-A hardpoints. Then after that just hope they don't bring TBR-A hardpoints.

Oh and if anyone goes to alpha in Grim then yell at them not to. Only exception is if it's a light mech rush.

#2 sycocys

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 06:32 PM

LOL.

IS mechs are on the whole vastly superior in the brawl.

The 4N isn't a designed brawler, but can made to be a very effective one and still keep its high output at its preffered range - or stick with the meta build and a teammate or two and it's ridiculous output as nearly any range. Guass is just as fine up close as it is further away, possibly better since it's way easier to cockpit or sweep the legs.

Maybe you just aren't so great at putting shots on location while moving at full speed?

#3 Khama

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 07:44 PM

Even if IS were not as good as clans at brawling, it still would be better to do compared then a range fight. Trading like that almost always equals to the loss of the IS team. Least if the clans have a sense of what they are doing.

Edited by Khama, 25 April 2015 - 07:45 PM.


#4 Chagatay

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 07:45 PM

View Postluxebo, on 25 April 2015 - 05:49 PM, said:

BECAUSE IT CLEARLY ISN'T CORRECT IN ANY CASE!

They actually brawl better in most if not all cases. A Stormcrow can have FIVE SRM/SSRMs along with a head laser, while being TEN tons under a Catapult A1, and THIRTY TONS under a STK-5M, likely with the same loadout and going 40 kph slower! A Timber can outpace ANY heavy except other Clan heavies, along with having a bigger alpha than assaults normally can contain. A Mad Dog can also rub it in the face with 6 SRMs along with some back up lasers while being 5 tons less than the Catapult and have more than 1000 damage worth of SRMs/SSRMs compared to the Catapult.

So stop brawling use 4Ns and dual gauss and stuff to try to trade enemies until they get free TBR-A hardpoints. Then after that just hope they don't bring TBR-A hardpoints.

Oh and if anyone goes to alpha in Grim then yell at them not to. Only exception is if it's a light mech rush.


Uh.....IS brawls better

#5 FupDup

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 08:04 PM

An average IS brawler can out-brawl an average Clan long-range or mid-range build.

An average Clan brawler (SRMs, SPL, ERSL, etc.) can at the bare minimum match an average IS brawler if not surpass them.

#6 FatYak

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 08:07 PM

Thread is already a fail....

View PostFupDup, on 25 April 2015 - 08:04 PM, said:

An average IS brawler can out-brawl an average Clan long-range or mid-range build.

An average Clan brawler (SRMs, SPL, ERSL, etc.) can at the bare minimum match an average IS brawler if not surpass them.


fails to acknowledge the damage the IS brawlers take before they are within range if the clan mechs.

#7 ShinVector

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 08:09 PM

I would NOT want to BRAWL an SRM6 Crow.
That's SRM-60DAMAGE in your face at medium speed yo.

It was something similar I used to pilot back in the day.. The SRM Stalker.
But Clans can do it VERY effectively in a 55 Tonner.. which is derp.

Edited by ShinVector, 25 April 2015 - 08:11 PM.


#8 FupDup

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 08:11 PM

View PostFatYak, on 25 April 2015 - 08:07 PM, said:

Thread is already a fail....

fails to acknowledge the damage the IS brawlers take before they are within range if the clan mechs.

You have me mixed up with a few other people in this thread -- people who aren't me -- who feel that a normal IS brawler is better than a normal Clan brawler. Please hang up and call the correct number next time. :P

#9 Repasy Cooper

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 08:29 PM

Everybody's got their own opinion. Mine is that both sides have good and bad options for brawling, that ultimately lead up to a good balance in power between the two. Brawling is not a problem.

But that's just my two cents worth.

#10 FatYak

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 08:31 PM

View PostFupDup, on 25 April 2015 - 08:11 PM, said:

You have me mixed up with a few other people in this thread -- people who aren't me -- who feel that a normal IS brawler is better than a normal Clan brawler. Please hang up and call the correct number next time. :P

Oh dear, i hit the quote button on the wrong post! :o

I need a new phone with bigger buttons for my fat fingers

Apologies FupDup :huh:

Edited by FatYak, 25 April 2015 - 08:31 PM.


#11 luxebo

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 09:23 PM

View PostShinVector, on 25 April 2015 - 08:09 PM, said:

I would NOT want to BRAWL an SRM6 Crow.
That's SRM-60DAMAGE in your face at medium speed yo.
It was something similar I used to pilot back in the day.. The SRM Stalker.
But Clans can do it VERY effectively in a 55 Tonner.. which is derp.

This guy knows it. 85 tonners getting outbrawled and with the same loadout as a 55 tonner is stupid.


View PostFupDup, on 25 April 2015 - 08:04 PM, said:

An average IS brawler can out-brawl an average Clan long-range or mid-range build.
An average Clan brawler (SRMs, SPL, ERSL, etc.) can at the bare minimum match an average IS brawler if not surpass them.

This guy also knows it. At least the Mad Dog, Timber, and Stormcrow can surpass almost all mechs in a brawl. The only mech that can compete with this on the IS side is the 2N.


View Postsycocys, on 25 April 2015 - 06:32 PM, said:

LOL.
IS mechs are on the whole vastly superior in the brawl.
The 4N isn't a designed brawler, but can made to be a very effective one and still keep its high output at its preffered range - or stick with the meta build and a teammate or two and it's ridiculous output as nearly any range. Guass is just as fine up close as it is further away, possibly better since it's way easier to cockpit or sweep the legs.
Maybe you just aren't so great at putting shots on location while moving at full speed?

Ok... I'll bite.

So my STK-5M pushing a Stormcrow with the same loadout against a wall is supposed to lose??????
So my AS7-S alphaing a Timber Wolf, legging him, and he still beats me with only 2 ASRMs?????

Yeah there's something wrong about that. At most consistency with IS brawlers I can maybe trade evenly with AS7-S/DDC to ONE Stormcrow or Mad Dog. That's a 40, 45 ton difference.

4N is not a good brawler, but it's a good trader for the time being until TBR-A is out for c-bills. We basically don't have a good brawler at this point in time (except GRF-2N but that's for money only).

I'm perfectly fine with putting shots out at distance and especially at close range (generally I fare much better in close combat). I've been a brawler since before launch era and 12v12s.

So although this would lead to balance etc, TDR-5SS should be able to trade evenly if not win against a Stormcrow. I've never done this unless the Stormcrow is legged or one torso only etc; fresh vs fresh he always wins. My Stalker 5M always gets outbrawled by a Timber (though mobility hits it quite badly). A better comparison is the Victor, I've never seen a Victor (assuming AC20 3xSRM6s 2xMLs) outbrawl a Timber (though they should be generally even brawling.)

A TDR-5SS should be able to trade even if not win; a Victor should be able to trade even.

Neither is the case, and even in Stalkers or Atlases or Banshees you might still get outbrawled by a mech 25+ tons under you.

Especially this needs to change; people's mindset can't stick to "IS better brawl get close" and then we die because they all take Hellbringers and Stormcrows boating SRMs. Especially prevalent in CW.

Edited by luxebo, 25 April 2015 - 09:24 PM.


#12 Panzerkampfwagen IV

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 09:40 PM

L2P.
I've won more games and led more successful drops vs clans than I can even count.
Those SRM 36 mad dogs and laser vomit stormcrows will overheat way faster than their IS counterparts. You need an organized team that pushes into the brawl together to take advantage of this. Most pugs are too scared to push and end up staying behind cover and poking which leads to your brawlers getting killed when they go in. Trading long range with the clans is the absolute worst tactic ever since it plays to their strengths. (High damage and range, poor heat control, they can just back off and cool down and melt you again)

Have you actually PLAYED as a clan SRM boat? You can only shoot your full missle loadout twice before needing to back away and cooldown at critical heat.

Edited by Asian Tupac, 25 April 2015 - 09:42 PM.


#13 luxebo

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 10:30 PM

View PostAsian Tupac, on 25 April 2015 - 09:40 PM, said:

L2P.
I've won more games and led more successful drops vs clans than I can even count.
Those SRM 36 mad dogs and laser vomit stormcrows will overheat way faster than their IS counterparts. You need an organized team that pushes into the brawl together to take advantage of this. Most pugs are too scared to push and end up staying behind cover and poking which leads to your brawlers getting killed when they go in. Trading long range with the clans is the absolute worst tactic ever since it plays to their strengths. (High damage and range, poor heat control, they can just back off and cool down and melt you again)

Have you actually PLAYED as a clan SRM boat? You can only shoot your full missle loadout twice before needing to back away and cooldown at critical heat.

Have you ever heard of chainfire and SSRMs? If you say OMG ECM then that's due to no GRF-2N for c-bills.

Laser vomit Stormcrows are another story, I'm talking about SRM/SSRMs where you can alt fire 2/3 and then 3 SRMs at once, same as SSRMs.

Trading shots isn't a terrible idea, EXCEPT WHEN PEOPLE CHOOSE ATLASES TO DO IT. USE YOUR DAMN STK-4Ns PEOPLE.

People need to learn to trade better and not think that brawling is life. Then they think OMG ALPHA GATE AT GRIM IS THE BEST GATE! And we die pretty much in twenty seconds and they spawncamp us. Yay to "IS has better brawlers" because we DON'T. Any decent player in a SCR or TBR can outbrawl any other mech with same skill level and perfect health at start (except maybe SCR and GRF-2N can potentially trade equally.)

#14 Bows3r

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 10:33 PM

Are you losing brawls to Timber Wolf's in an Atlas? You need to Learn to twist. ;)

Edited by Bows3r, 25 April 2015 - 11:07 PM.


#15 Icy Manipulator

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 10:37 PM

Normally I don´t even post replies to posts like this, as Forum Warriors are typically the players playing the game wrong and crying to the DEVs about it.

Clan weapons have much greater ranges, but slower firing weapons (laser duration affects weapon firing speeds) that spread damage vs moving targets (again laser duration). So players have tailored their meta to this. High alpha peak-a-boo tactics, that hopefully draw enemies into a literal STAND off.

IS weapons have shorter ranges, fire faster, and are better at dealing concentrated damage. Smart players recognize this statistically and employ Medium Pulse Laser builds or a combination of Medium Laser/Large Pulse Laser builds. Stay at high speeds to spread Clan damage and concentrate on the above average sized CT of most Clan mechs...

I 2 shot storm crows in my Grasshopper 3 LPL 4 ML 1.2 heat efficiency build, Without quirks. With the godmode TBR 5SS they seem to pop even faster while they spread damage all over me like jam on toast.

Ask any competitive unit pilot and most if not all will downright agree that IS is the king of the brawl.

Sorry ForumWarrriors

#16 mxlm

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 11:41 PM

View PostIcy Manipulator, on 25 April 2015 - 10:37 PM, said:

Clan weapons have much greater ranges, but slower firing weapons (laser duration affects weapon firing speeds) that spread damage vs moving targets (again laser duration). So players have tailored their meta to this. High alpha peak-a-boo tactics, that hopefully draw enemies into a literal STAND off.


This does not account for quirks. 4Ns are happy to exchange at range with clan laser vomit. 5SS MPL boats have the same range as clan MPL boats. With the 30% generic range quirks, a few IS chassis have ERLLs that outrange CERLL (well, until 1500 meters when the IS LL vanish for no reason at all). And so on.

As for the brawl: give me average players on both sides and I'll take a Dragon over a brawl crow every time. Sure, they could focus your arm off, but in practice it doesn't happen much. If you're unlucky enough to hit a top tier unit, then it'll happen Otherwise, enjoy your dakka

Edited by mxlm, 25 April 2015 - 11:43 PM.


#17 VorpalAnvil

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 11:47 PM

Butbutbut... CLAMSOP!!!! RAGE!!! (every IS player on the forums ever).

#18 LoklanZFG

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Posted 26 April 2015 - 01:54 AM

IS brawls better in the long run. The clans have higher burst damage potential, but they get hotter faster than we do. Even though they can typically take more heatsinks than we can to cool off once they are hot, IS has the advantage if you can make it a sustained engagement. If you feed them mechs slowly and let them get cold again, they will rip you to shreds. If you push as a team and stay in their faces while focus firing, someone on your team will get ripped to shreds but you can certainly win the fight if your team is better than theirs.

edit: having an atlas pilot who can tank damage like a boss at the front of your push also goes a long ways. And since our light mechs aren't garbage, we have the luxury of being able to take a 100 tonner in our drop deck.

Edited by LoklanZFG, 26 April 2015 - 01:58 AM.


#19 anonymous161

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Posted 26 April 2015 - 02:03 AM

clans dont have any real range dudes...is brawl way way way better a diashi one on one against a slow mech sure but they gonna take a pounding and typically if you just take out one arm you can win. I've seen it enough times.

add the fact that IS can put in more assault mechs in the drop deck, while clans can only do 1 unless they really want to rely one the crappy light mechs.

Edited by Darth Bane001, 26 April 2015 - 02:04 AM.


#20 Tasker

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Posted 26 April 2015 - 05:57 AM

"Uhh... durrr..." - Clanner, before dropping onto planet with 3 streak crows and 1 Timber Wolf





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