7 replies to this topic

[Gwydion Ward]

Ok.. so this is my Timberwolf

Can someone give me some reason as to why it never seems to really 'damage' anything, it just seems like i struggle to kill even Light mech's with it =T

Or am i just mistaken in thinking that LPL's are actually useful over simply firing 4x ERM's?

[Moldur]

It's not that LPLs are bad per-se, but I feel like you'll have a hard time fully utilizing all your lasers since they don't all have a uniform range.

Even though the machine guns can get those tasty crits, an extra ton and half could be used for something else.

You have 2 LRM 10s which = 5 tons, with 1 ton of ammo. Once it runs out (quickly, I would think) You have a 5 ton empty weight that doesn't contribute to your build.

In short, your face to face offensive ability suffers from having to fit these weapons in.

TBR-PRIME is close to my Prime but not everyone is a fan of PPCs, though the heat is good enough such that missing shots isn't too bad, and the targeting computer helps a bit.

I took the machine guns off and added ERMs, another ton of missiles. TBR-PRIME

I guess you could go the other way as well, putting on 4xERM then focusing on LRMs, but it's up to you.

Personally, I like dedicated builds, because they can beat well-rounded loadouts like yours at their given specialty. I guess if you still want a balanced loadout, make it pretty good in one category instead of expecting it to dominate in all. The Timber Wolf can be a close ace of all trades, just not at the same time.

[grendeldog]

This build has a lot going on, and I think it may be a better idea to choose a single focus - what role you prefer to play - and a range at which you wish to engage. Specifically, I suggest either choosing to LRM or not. I'll offer some suggestions as to a few different directions you could take it.

The thing is that when you have enough LRM on a Timber to really matter, your choices for other weapons to carry are limited because of tonnage. Additionally, those shoulder LRM packs are gigantic; anybody who can properly aim can tag your side torsos with dakka and las at a distance. You currently have lasers and machine guns that are totally short range, pulse lasers that are moderately long range, and LRMs that are long range.

So I suggest that if you want to go with an LRM-wolf, go all the way - this means getting some Timber D variant side torso omnipods for 35 tubes per shoulder. Timber S side torsos also have 35 tubes, but they have jump jets hardwired in, so there's four less critical slots in the two combined shoulders; this is not going to work if you want maximum lurm. I would suggest something like this, though I am not an LRM boat captain myself so I'm not 100% positive that this is an ideal build. This is an alternate build that uses Artemis.

Now, you may ask why I don't put an LRM 20 in each torso with an LRM 15 to use all 35 tubes in each side torso? For only five more missiles in a torso you lose two critical slots and 1.5 tons. Per torso. Not a good use of space. And then you also have the issue of LRM 20 and 15 cooldown periods being different.

That build has 900 missiles, with a potential alpha-strike of 60 missiles at once - but don't do that unless you want to get super hot from ghost heat. Instead launch one shoulder and then the other about 3/4 of a second apart, or put them on chain fire and fire all 4 over a time period of a bit more than a second. So you only have 15 alpha strikes, yes, but you shouldn't be alpha-ing those LRMs much if at all. Realistically, while that's 900 damage if every missile hits, they won't all hit. But between 600 damage or so from well-used LRMs and those medium lasers you would do well at damage, kills, and match score.

As for alpha versus chain-fire, as a pilot myself I'd rather somebody alpha and blow their whole wad at once so I can duck behind cover and have every missile miss - and they'll be really hot from doing that so I can get in and attack while they are near their heat limit. Conversely, a constant stream of chain-fired LRMs is really, really irritating, even if you have radar deprivation and use cover like I do. This is because it's more likely a shot will hit me when they're launched over time, and furthermore they deny an area that I could be using to fire from by making me stay in cover as much as possible for as long as possible, allowing your allies to flank me and stab me in the spleen.

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To be frank though, if you want to boat clan LRMs I would go with the Mad Dog or perhaps Warhawk. They are just more effective at that role - Mad Dog especially - and I feel the Timber is more effective as a direct fire weapons platform. That brings us to other possible builds.

This is my Timber Prime. You can always remove that S variant omnipod, but then you're short a laser, and I also like that I have a bit of jump capability. I suggest that the large pulse lasers go in the torso if you want to go laservomit. This is for two reasons. First, you want to maximize the amount of time the beam pulses sit one one component of the enemy mech to maximize damage to one location, and the torso is less prone to wild movements than the surprisingly mobile arms (speaking of which, always enable lower arm actuators for mechs unless you absolutely need that extra critical slot per arm). And second, Timbers take a lot of enemy focus fire because they are so dangerous, and as a result the arms can come off relatively easily.

I do use machine guns, which most laservomit builds do not use, simply because you will find yourself in a brawl at one time or another no matter how hard you try to stay at your ideal range of 200-500 meters, and you'll probably be pretty hot at that point too. So the machine guns are a heat neutral way to do something in a brawl while your other weapons cycle and your mech tries to cool down. They're also great to finish heavily damaged mechs with.

On the other hand, you could try and go with a close range brawling type of Timber. I have yet to build one myself, but I would guess that this might be at least a good first start in that direction. Alternatively, you could go with a dakka build like this.

Basically, I would try to come up with a single focus for the mech, and then build your chassis and weapon systems around meeting the requirements for that role. Hopefully this will help you get started in that directino. One last piece of advice though - drop the small lasers. A Nova can use small lasers totally effectively because it can carry a stupid quantity - 12 of them! In that sort of number smalls can be quite efficient killers. But the Timber doesn't have 12 energy hardpoints (god save us from the prodigious vomit if it did) to use with smalls, and thus to make use of the more limited number of energy hardpoints you need to use lasers that pack more of a punch in smaller numbers, like ER mediums, ER large, or MPL / LPLs.

Edited by grendeldog, 02 May 2015 - 08:38 PM.

[Kin3ticX]

Some builds for TBR here:
https://docs.google....g3532a8eb7_2624

Gauss, 5xERML: is a nasty build. 15 damage out to 660 and half damage out to ~1300 meters. The 5xERML do half damage out to ~600-650 meters. Really good alpha and heat MGMT. One of my favorites.

2xLPL, 3xERML: There is also a 2xLPL, 4xERML build but it is rather hot. The heat with 3xERML is much more manageable and still delivers worthwhile damage out to 675-900 meters. Puts nice holes in mechs.

These are both considered simple mixes and are very powerful. The weapons in simple mixes tend to compliment each other much better.

I never go out of my way to recommend complicated high mix builds aka braket builds, or stock+. These builds try to do something at every range with a different weapon but wind up not doing any one thing well. Besides being suboptimal they have other major downsides. Generalist mechs tend to do poorly against specialist as they either range tank you or face hug. When this happens, large chunks of your payload goes to complete waste. ECM, non-lrm friendly maps, cover, etc also throws a wrench into LRM performance on a regular basis making them wild hit or misses.

If you never adjusted your sensitivity it is probably way to high, crank it way down, way way down and your aim will improve.

GL.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 02 May 2015 - 09:48 PM.

[grendeldog]

I've been having more fun than I have ever had in a Timber in this build:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8bc8fd582dcf269

I freely admit it could be min/maxed further into the classic gauss + 4, 5, or even 6 ERML, which you can find on the following link:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8bc8fd582dcf269

With that said, it has been working beautifully for me!

EDIT: The 6 ERML build requires the gauss to go in the right prime variant side torso if I recall. It would be really hot too.

Edited by grendeldog, 04 May 2015 - 11:37 PM.

[CTsai]

Like what others have said, the build you posted have weapons all over the place.
Generally speaking, you don't want to build an "all-purpose" mech in this game.
A better idea is to specialize in : Long, Long-Mid, Mid, Mid-Short, or Short range.


Just my 2 cents

[Leone]

Might I suggest a subtle change. If you strip the close range weaponry and add another Lrm 10 with tag and more ammo, you may well have a Decent ranged harasser. This would not be a proper Hiding LRM Platform, or a Laser sniper but a mech of the line, meant to be grouped with your allies providing tag assistance, and a constant barrage of Lrm harassment, with of course, Pulse laser damage potential.

A hybrid build like this this doesn't do either one thing better than a dedicated mech, but does allow you battlefield control, as your job is to punish anyone for popping out of cover. It is designed without regard for close range because it's designed to work with a team. (Also, Lrms are still fully viable within 200m, and are only wasted at full on knife fighting range, say 100m out.) If you want a better solo build, I'd suggest going medium range. Clan Er mediums have a 400m range, which is usually where most of my combats occur at anyways. (See threads on positioning if you have trouble getting this close.)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...314397feb582c57

Fortunately, this should be a cheap change to your current build, and you can run some ten drops and decide if that's a role you like. Only slightly deviating from the two button weapon grouping I prefer, a three or more button gaming mouse would be best, or you could rebind a weapon group to left shift or something to maintain a constant tag whilest switching between lrm and laser fire.

Personally, I'm more of a brawler, and I have a similar 3 x lrm 5 and six medium pulse build that runs hot, but fits my playstyle. I'll admit though it's not my best Timberwolf., not that the Timberwolf's all that great for me.

Also, lights are just hard to kill with lasers. I prefer PPCs or streaks, dependant on whether your brawling or ranging.

~Leone, Raid Leader of the Crimson Hand

Edited by Leone, 11 May 2015 - 12:41 AM.

[grendeldog]

Leone, on 11 May 2015 - 12:40 AM, said:

Might I suggest a subtle change. If you strip the close range weaponry and add another Lrm 10 with tag and more ammo, you may well have a Decent ranged harasser. This would not be a proper Hiding LRM Platform, or a Laser sniper but a mech of the line, meant to be grouped with your allies providing tag assistance, and a constant barrage of Lrm harassment, with of course, Pulse laser damage potential.

A hybrid build like this this doesn't do either one thing better than a dedicated mech, but does allow you battlefield control, as your job is to punish anyone for popping out of cover. It is designed without regard for close range because it's designed to work with a team. (Also, Lrms are still fully viable within 200m, and are only wasted at full on knife fighting range, say 100m out.) If you want a better solo build, I'd suggest going medium range. Clan Er mediums have a 400m range, which is usually where most of my combats occur at anyways. (See threads on positioning if you have trouble getting this close.)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...314397feb582c57

Fortunately, this should be a cheap change to your current build, and you can run some ten drops and decide if that's a role you like. Only slightly deviating from the two button weapon grouping I prefer, a three or more button gaming mouse would be best, or you could rebind a weapon group to left shift or something to maintain a constant tag whilest switching between lrm and laser fire.

Personally, I'm more of a brawler, and I have a similar 3 x lrm 5 and six medium pulse build that runs hot, but fits my playstyle. I'll admit though it's not my best Timberwolf., not that the Timberwolf's all that great for me.

Also, lights are just hard to kill with lasers. I prefer PPCs or streaks, dependant on whether your brawling or ranging.

~Leone, Raid Leader of the Crimson Hand

I really think that the Timber isn't that well suited to LRM builds - no matter how much I enjoy the nostalgic shoulder pods. The Mad Dog can just do anything LRM-based better than the Wolf; the Wolf excels at direct fire and some brawling whereas the Mad Dog is much squishier. With that said, if you want to go LRMs on a Timber, I say go all the way and do something like this. Note that for some stupid reason the arm actuator on the right arm keeps disappearing every time I save the build; you should have the lower arm actuators on both sides though it doesn't show it in the Smurf-lab.

However, if you want to go with just the two LRM 10s as a longer-range laser and LRM hybrid like you mention, I would suggest something like this build. You have two ERLL for the long-range punch, three ERML for more las, a TAG (I personally would switch this to another ERML, but you have a tag in your build so I kept that TAG), the LRM 10s with enough ammo, and then the Timber D left arm for the energy heat reduction quirk. The sustained DPS is less than your build, but the alpha is about 1.5 times greater.

My main issue with the build you mentioned is just that those LPLs have too long of a cooldown period to be the primary energy weapons. I would instead use multiple ERML, a combo of ERLL and MPL, or something along those lines.