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Community Warfare And The "southern" Houses


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#1 Joshua McEvedy

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 04:29 AM

Something needs to be done to give the "Southern" Houses (Marik, Liao, and Davion) access to the Clan front in order to keep our respective memberships engaged in the game. It was a big problem before the Tukayyid event, especially from Marik's perspective, that resulted in the failed "wormhole" experiment, the completely unsatisfying Kurita War, and endless ghost drops against the Davions and Steiners. Liao is in an even worse position with lower population numbers than Marik, and with only one viable front, against the Davions.

Post-Tukayyid, we're seeing that the problem is becoming even more acute, not only with burnout and boredom, but also hearing from our former battle "partners," the Steiners, that they will be focusing almost exclusively on the Clan front and will no longer bother to defend their worlds along the Free World League border, leaving House Marik with not much to do except more ghost drops.

So yes, this definitely needs some attention, or the Southern Houses will be in grave danger of going inactive in Community Warfare.

#2 Baron Wasteland

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 08:29 AM

I agree with this. I recently left the unit "1st Free World Guards" due to lack of CW action, and that sucks because I have been with them for over a year. While we appreciate the lore aspects of the map, it really does make for bad game play when you don't have access to one of the most basic things: attacking the clans and pushing them back.

The argument about "you can always defend" is not very valid since that takes away 50% of the gameplay options, plus limits your faction to not being able to expand. Why not have each of the southern houses have 1 planet on the clan front so we can join in the fun?

#3 DI3T3R

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 08:34 AM

New faction: PIRATES!

- narrower drop-deck range (170-230t)
- can attack any House or Clan
- new mission-type: RAID
Pirates don't conquer sectors on a planet.
If they win, they get a CB-bonus and the defenders get a punishment (even less money than losers usually get).
If they lose, they get a punishment (even less money than losers usually get) and the defenders get the normal amount.

Edited by DI3T3R, 05 May 2015 - 08:35 AM.


#4 50 50

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 11:32 PM

Well, unless Liao and Marik or the Clans can cut their way through the houses in between, which might only happen if players can use their unit coffers in some sort of 'declare war' function to determine which planets they attack, it will likely never happen.
Using your unit to reinforce the armies of the other houses against the Clan is the only way to do it.

While being able to fund an invasion using the coffers might be an interest development, what is also needed in CW is to make the taking of a planet more worth while than just changing it's control between factions.
There have been all sorts of posts about introducing different benefits for winning control.
Having a reason to attack the neighbouring houses and having a reason to defend against them you would expect would draw in more players to those conflicts.

The stats from Tukayyid showed us that the information about which factions, which units and which players took part in a battle is available and being recorded.
We had some nice little rewards as a result.
The map also has some individual details on each planet in the map.
To me, it's an expansion on these aspects.

Add a benefit to each planet that is battled for when ever the planet is contested. I suggest this is more than just c-bill and XP bonuses. Equipment, consumables and mechs are all options and there are more than enough of each to make it diverse.
Otherwise, some sort of discount on those items. These are all ideas that have been put forward in other posts but the overall idea is that it has to mean something more to conquer a planet than just having the map border shift.
That'll give you a nice reason to battle away against your neighbours.

#5 Cleaver404

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 12:49 AM

Upcoming 4v4 mode is supposed to allow houses to "pick" by "scouting" which planets they can attack next phase. That's cool, but not enough. Right now, CW is fundamentally broken in that 1) there's no reason to take a planet, period, let alone defend one (beyond unit tag on the planet for bragging rights, and after map reset, no one cares) & 2) the random counter-attack ghost-drop thing is just brutal and will drive away players.

I'm fully supportive as I hope PGI devs/design are, too, that if CW is to work the biggest enemy is ghost dropping. I have also been in those 12 mans that worked for 2 hours to get attention to fight opponents and had zero luck that whole time, and made zero money. Defending should be important. Conquering planets should be important. If it's not, just remove the map and give this as a game mode option (do 4 'mechs, 240-250 tons) in PlayNow's dropdown. :(

Edited by Cleaver404, 06 May 2015 - 01:26 AM.


#6 Winddancer

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 02:22 AM

I fully understand and support the idea to make the changing in ownership of a planet a more time consuming process than we had in Beta 1.
However, with the activity levels seen at the moment, especially in the "southern" houses, it stands to reason if the change wasn't too big.

Currently, with the hotpatch reducing the number of sectors per planet to 13, a planet requires 13 victories to change ownership. Calculated for a single 12-man attacking team, that gets opposed each time, and providing that readying up after a fight takes only 5 minutes and the opponent joins only in the last minute, making it 45 minutes per victory, this leads to 5 hours and 15 minutes constant fighting and constant winning to gain ownership of a planet.

With the attack window being at less than 8 hours, and the high probability that the single 12-man team will have to replace quite a number of players due to RL issues or simple loss of interest, this means that it is basically impossible to win a planet given the current activity levels.

Why not expand the attack window to a full 24 hours? This would allow both attackers and defenders to muster the needed forces, allow for more intense fighting over a planet, given enough participants exist, and would still prevent a too quick exchange of planets while still allowing for changes becomming visible.

#7 DI3T3R

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 02:41 AM

@Cleaver404: "there is no reason to conquer a planet"



That's why I suggested a while ago to couple each planet to a reward:
* If a faction conquers a planet, the reward becomes available for the whole faction.
* A particular weapon/module/Mech/cockpit-item/pattern available for purchase for X% off.
* Offer only valid for the next 24 hours and only for members of this faction.
* Nobody knows beforehand what offer the planet will bring. And they switch when the planet changes hands.

=> People will conquer and conquer, in the hopes of getting something nice.

#8 Tiamat of the Sea

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 12:08 PM

View PostJoshua McEvedy, on 05 May 2015 - 04:29 AM, said:

Something needs to be done to give the "Southern" Houses (Marik, Liao, and Davion) access to the Clan front in order to keep our respective memberships engaged in the game. It was a big problem before the Tukayyid event, especially from Marik's perspective, that resulted in the failed "wormhole" experiment, the completely unsatisfying Kurita War, and endless ghost drops against the Davions and Steiners. Liao is in an even worse position with lower population numbers than Marik, and with only one viable front, against the Davions.

Post-Tukayyid, we're seeing that the problem is becoming even more acute, not only with burnout and boredom, but also hearing from our former battle "partners," the Steiners, that they will be focusing almost exclusively on the Clan front and will no longer bother to defend their worlds along the Free World League border, leaving House Marik with not much to do except more ghost drops.

So yes, this definitely needs some attention, or the Southern Houses will be in grave danger of going inactive in Community Warfare.


I'm a little bit confused here. From CW round 1, I distinctly recall dropping in defense of Kuritan and Rasalhague planets against Clan attackers as a Steiner pilot. Are you purely discussing the capacity to attack the Clans?

If not, what the heck was I on when I thought I was doing that?

If so, I do agree that it's kind of silly you can't contribute to counterattacking Clans from down there, it's not like jumpships can't take multiple jumps between systems....

#9 Couchwarrior

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 11:20 AM

Its too late now and against the lore but I think they should've split the clan invasion north and south.

There's just been an event thats shown the relative sizes and power of each faction so the clans could've been split to keep the population balances reasonably equal. As it is at the moment it looks like the lower population clans are being pushed back by the larger IS factions and the IS factions in the south have very little to do. Moving the two lower populated clans into the South could've provided a much more equal and more interesting battleground for all.

As it is at the moment there's so much waiting to do and so little fighting in the south CW is nearly dead here.

#10 Kifferson von doober

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 02:57 AM

maybe something along the lines of a buddy system of sorts allowing a southern house an attack window through a friendly northern houses window? could be balanced by the inclusion of the secondary clans ( nova cat et al) so for example house liao would be allowed to attack a smoke jag world under assault by house kurita and turn the planet green if they did the lions share of the fighting. just a thought, my worry is that it would bolster the is side but dilute the clans further.
i like the pirate idea alot though.





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