75 replies to this topic

[Pat Kell]

It's really sad to see players that I few as being very good basically giving up instead of adapting and finding the next new meta. It is out there and I am confident that in less than a week, it will be found and spread around. Be patient and have some fun with trying new things. I have been playing Hellbringers all night and have been doing about the same as I was in a timby. Granted, it's not as tanky but the high mounted weapons more than make up for that. Was looking at a dual gauss warhawk build and wondering if that might be worth playing. There are options man and now that the Stalker is getting a bit of a nerf, I think things will shift a bit. Pay attention to it and you will be fine. People need to understand that balance in this game is impossible to achieve, once something is nerfed, something else will take it's place. On and on until we are all fighting each other with flamers and mg's....

[Rushin Roulette]

Im not direclty saying that the nerfs are not too hard... but seriously... every tiem a clan mech gets nerfed it generates a MASSIVE wave of whine (enough to float at least a company of Vikings to Valhalla).

However, when the IS mechs get nerfed you hardly hear anything... just like this round of anounced nerfs. 4 mechs get hit and not a single thread about how nerfing the Stalker or the Firestarter is wrong and "OMG STOP NERF MY IS ROBOTZ OR I WILL CANSEL MAI PREORDER!!!!"... however touch the clan mechs and these threads pop up like shrooms in a university party.

[Livewyr]

Rushin Roulette, on 18 May 2015 - 03:51 AM, said:

Im not direclty saying that the nerfs are not too hard... but seriously... every tiem a clan mech gets nerfed it generates a MASSIVE wave of whine (enough to float at least a company of Vikings to Valhalla).

However, when the IS mechs get nerfed you hardly hear anything... just like this round of anounced nerfs. 4 mechs get hit and not a single thread about how nerfing the Stalker or the Firestarter is wrong and "OMG STOP NERF MY IS ROBOTZ OR I WILL CANSEL MAI PREORDER!!!!"... however touch the clan mechs and these threads pop up like shrooms in a university party.

1a: How many Clan Variants are there?
1b: How many IS Variants are there?

2: Were you not here when the Highlanders and Victors were nerfed?

[CyclonerM]

Rushin Roulette, on 18 May 2015 - 03:51 AM, said:

Im not direclty saying that the nerfs are not too hard... but seriously... every tiem a clan mech gets nerfed it generates a MASSIVE wave of whine (enough to float at least a company of Vikings to Valhalla).

However, when the IS mechs get nerfed you hardly hear anything... just like this round of anounced nerfs. 4 mechs get hit and not a single thread about how nerfing the Stalker or the Firestarter is wrong and "OMG STOP NERF MY IS ROBOTZ OR I WILL CANSEL MAI PREORDER!!!!"... however touch the clan mechs and these threads pop up like shrooms in a university party.

Because this is only the last of a long series of nerfs since day 1 of the Clan "invasion"... I agree TBR and SCR needed a bit of a nerf, but a small agility nerf could have been enough.. Why should i be punished for running a stock loadout? And these 'Mechs are mostly energy based, with missiles and ballistics here and there. Would you put negative laser quirks on a 4P? Or negative flamer quiks on a Firestarter (just an example)? Or negative missile quirks on a Catapult or PPC quirks on a Awesome?

Besides, they are both considered the most useful CW 'Mechs. While i do not agree that the other 'Mechs are useless, they were both very good to counter the IS meta.

One thing is adapting and overcome.. Another is invading against much bigger numbers, vs better than-Star-League quirked 'tech and 'Mechs, and PGI constantly nerfing our 'Mechs each month. I even recall a tweet by Russ, a while ago, where he said that balance was almost fine and Clans may have not been nerfed more...

I tend not to blindly whine and be objective, finding arguments and thinking for a while before talking about balance.. But i can hardly refuse to believe now that PGI is biased towards the IS, wheter for financial reasons or personal feelings..

And as i already said.. Have all the IS players forgot how much they have whined for Clans OP, even while their 'Mechs got buffed (some even with 50% bonuses!) and ours were constantly nerfed? Seems like someone just wants to see Clan 'Mechs nerfed to the ground. For someone, no nerf is ever enough..

Yet, us and only us are the whiners, unworthy of the title of Clan warriors, while the good IS players adapt and overcome from the cockpits of their meta-Stalkers.

Why does MWO have to be a constant chase to an always changing meta? Why even the few very good stock loadouts are nerfed?

Now, i really would like to hear about those UAC buffs..

Edited by CyclonerM, 18 May 2015 - 04:12 AM.

[DeRazer]

Livewyr, on 18 May 2015 - 03:41 AM, said:

Those (us) players drop in TBRs and SCRs to compete with the STKs and TDRs.
The STK and the TDRs have VERY nice quirks, and very night weapon placements (especially the STK)

So good of you to drop in Heavies and Mediums to compete with Assaults and Heavies....

[Too Much Love]

Meningless and stupid move on PGI side.

I waited for IS OP mechs to be normalized a little, instead they nerfed Stalker by 2,5% (!) and Timberwolf and Stormcrow by 6% to 12%.

What is the reasoning behind that changes? Who cares to explain them? Do they try to make Wave 1 obsolete and encourage players to buy Wave 3? I really don't know, I see no logic here.

Edited by drunkblackstar, 18 May 2015 - 04:29 AM.

[Livewyr]

DeRazer, on 18 May 2015 - 04:24 AM, said:

So good of you to drop in Heavies and Mediums to compete with Assaults and Heavies....

with a 10 ton advantage each.

(Although the stormcrow was there more for the lack of space for TBR..)


(Yeah, imagine what would happen if we dropped in our Gargoyles or Dire Wolves against the laser STKs...not pretty for the clans.)

Edited by Livewyr, 18 May 2015 - 04:39 AM.

[RolfS]

Quote

Im not direclty saying that the nerfs are not too hard... but seriously... every tiem a clan mech gets nerfed it generates a MASSIVE wave of whine (enough to float at least a company of Vikings to Valhalla).

However, when the IS mechs get nerfed you hardly hear anything... just like this round of anounced nerfs. 4 mechs get hit and not a single thread about how nerfing the Stalker or the Firestarter is wrong and "OMG STOP NERF MY IS ROBOTZ OR I WILL CANSEL MAI PREORDER!!!!"... however touch the clan mechs and these threads pop up like shrooms in a university party.

Thats because an adder is considered as strong as an IS Atlas in the battletech universe. Clan mechs are supposed to be OP and not weak as they are now.

This is why having weak wolf and weak crow running around amounting to have to listen to country music 24/7 (yup i hate that stuff). It is not right because those mechs are supposed to be OP, nerfing those mechs because of other mistakes by PGI will make anyone whine.

Only the elite players are going to be okay with these changes as the elite can adapt, all casual player (like me) are going to whine because we want our mechs to be what they are supposed to be. Clan should be a small elite playing OP mechs fighting against an enemy much larger in numbers. Additional some clans like smoke jaguars are using lots of stormcrows which will not happen now. If quirks were clan based we wouldn't have this mess.

We don't have anything like and elite Clan in CW and these changes makes things worse.

[LonestarrSB]

RolfS, on 18 May 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

Thats because an adder is considered as strong as an IS Atlas in the battletech universe. Clan mechs are supposed to be OP and not weak as they are now.

This is why having weak wolf and weak crow running around amounting to have to listen to country music 24/7 (yup i hate that stuff). It is not right because those mechs are supposed to be OP, nerfing those mechs because of other mistakes by PGI will make anyone whine.

Only the elite players are going to be okay with these changes as the elite can adapt, all casual player (like me) are going to whine because we want our mechs to be what they are supposed to be. Clan should be a small elite playing OP mechs fighting against an enemy much larger in numbers. Additional some clans like smoke jaguars are using lots of stormcrows which will not happen now. If quirks were clan based we wouldn't have this mess.

We don't have anything like and elite Clan in CW and these changes makes things worse.

ya but lorewise isn't it also dishonorable for clanners to fight without disadvantages like being out numbered (i may be wrong on this)? if you went full lore this game would be totally different.

So since this game is 12v12 so having OP mechs because of lore without giving IS the benefit of more players to cover this difference in tech would break the game.

Edited by LonestarrSB, 18 May 2015 - 08:25 AM.

[Frost Lord]

h3llst0mr, on 17 May 2015 - 09:57 AM, said:

I completely agree this was a bad move on the part of PGI I won't be buying wave 3 (I was strongly thinking about it hint hint PGI) in any game to balance OP stuff you don't bash the best ones you make the not so good ones better look at BF4 thank you PGi for screwing CW by making an already losing faction (the clans) now we will only have our capitals left it does not make any sense please PGI do not do this.

I totally disagree I think everything needs to be toned back, it has slowly gotten easier and easier to get quick kills and like wise to die quickly, as as founder I remember when we didn't have weapon modules and you only had up to 8 people shooting you and that was harsh enough.
I know people hate it when something seems to be taken away but its not necessarily a bad thing. in saying that I do think these nerfs were a bit extreme when you add them up but perhaps they want to bend the trend of clan mechs being long range killers buy making some of there better suited mechs more brawler orientated, the storme crow and timberwoulf probbly make the best candidates out of the current line up.

out of the top tiers you have dire wolf: to slow hell bringer: to much of a glass hammer mad dog: could but the Timber wolf is better because it is fast and maneuvers well for its speed can take jump jets and has a better hard point selection like wise the storm crow is vary nimble and runs surprisingly cool, infact the prime with its standed loud out is vary hard to over heat, I basically dropped a bunch of heat sinks to put an extra large laser on plus with its dodgy hit boxes it can afford to get in there opponents face. personally I will probably change all my large lasers to Medium pulse lasers or just stranded mediums.
who knows perhaps in the next patch they will then add buffs to incurage brawling even more.

it would be nice if pgi gave us some explanations with these changes or even asked for some input rather then petty things like making mech packs available again.

[Frost Lord]

LonestarrSB, on 18 May 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

ya but lorewise isn't it also dishonorable for clanners to fight without disadvantages like being out numbered (i may be wrong on this)? if you went full lore this game would be totally different.

So since this game is 12v12 so having OP mechs because of lore without giving IS the benefit of more players to cover this difference in tech would break the game.

I think PGI are fairly screwed at the moment when it comes to balancing. they should have done what many players asking for and made sides lop sided to the IS advantage then they could go to town making clans as nasty as they should be but out side community warfare this would be a problem so they seem to look at clan Vs IS more then clan VS Clan and IS V IS which would be much easier to balance since they have the same variables. then they could use other methods suck as tonnage to even out the Clan Vs IS.

I think stranded matches are swaying them away from the right choice personally, which is fair enough but it seems to be taking them away from the game they set out to create.

[Mcgral18]

Vlaitor, on 17 May 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

So much tears in the forum lately.
I live perfectly fine with the changes.
10% longer laser duration. omg gg.
Really?

10%?

How about 30%?


Or 9%



You can choose how gimped you are. 3% per E hardpoint, with the A LT having an additional 3%.

[Xavier]

Pat Kell, on 18 May 2015 - 02:27 AM, said:

I actually love this nerf because it made me take a second look at the hellbringer. ECM hell is about to begin and the forums will be full of people whining about Hellbringers being OP...then PGI will nerf them...

at least until the ebon jaguar is released and then everyone will be screaming OP on the EBON. mark my words the Ebon would have made the timber and stromcrow irrelevant anyways!

[IronEricP]

On a related note, IS drop decks were brought back to their 240 (from 250) ton limit versus clans recently, and that was right after the clans had won the Tukayyid event.

The Stalker 4N was also nerfed, granted, not as much as the Clan faves. BUT! It is also much slower and ties up more of the drop deck, limiting its tactical options. With the accompanying nerf to FS and Ravens (and thereby the light rush), IS CW options are looking to change significantly too.

Considering the TBR and Crow nerfs, these changes make it look like they are trying to force BOTH sides to look at wider options in drop deck selection.

Edited by Eric Portenelli, 18 May 2015 - 09:39 AM.

[Repasy Cooper]

Livewyr, on 18 May 2015 - 03:41 AM, said:

I'm just going to go ahead and stop you right here.

Those (us) players drop in TBRs and SCRs to compete with the STKs and TDRs.
The STK and the TDRs have VERY nice quirks, and very night weapon placements (especially the STK)

The other clan mechs simply do not have the necessary attributes to deal with a team of large laser stalkers- they either do not have the armor, or they do not have the tonnage available, or their hardpoints are simply badly placed for fighting that kind of battle (or all three.)

Clans do not have other viable weapons for community warfare (unless you're fighting a pug group- at which point most anything goes.. even flamers.)
Other clan mechs are simply not viable when it comes to fighting the IS meta of stalkers and thunders. (The Hellbringer has way too little armor and podspace, and is really only even brought for it's ECM and the 3 LT hardpoints.)


With this sausage flop, clans will continue to.. not play much community warfare. Let the 5th Succession war begin.

I'm just giving credit where it's due. There's more ways than "using clearly OP mechs" to counter an enemy's tactics. This is not "stand and shoot" warfare. There are many ways you can outmaneuver slow Stalkers in Clan mechs.

The true power of Clan warfare is speed. You can mount equally devastating weapons between Clans and IS mechs, but the IS mechs have to sacrifice speed. Clan mechs do not. The Timber Wolf has greater speed than IS medium mechs! Thus, if you're not making use of this superior maneuverability and resorting to wubs & lasers to focus the enemy down like an uber-turret, then you simply aren't fit to play Clans.

Now, for those who are upset about laser nerfs to the two chassis in question, perhaps you'll be pleased with how the Gargoyle and Nova handle now. Both should be better at laser boating anyways. There ARE other options in the Clans. Even LRMs are useful when you know how to use them properly. One of my most successful competitive CW Warhawk builds includes 3xLRM15.

[Randall Flagg]

Wolfhagen, on 17 May 2015 - 01:34 PM, said:

HBR HBR HBR IFR until the HBR Nerf in ~ 2 weeks.
Quit playing this game after it.
Wave III and Resistance II chanceled 5 minutes before.
Anyone interessted in a 90 Clanmechs Account with 2 Goldies - just pm.

Is one of the gold mechs a Timber ?

[Domenoth]

Livewyr, on 18 May 2015 - 03:41 AM, said:

I'm just going to go ahead and stop you right here.

Those (us) players drop in TBRs and SCRs to compete with the STKs and TDRs.
The STK and the TDRs have VERY nice quirks, and very night weapon placements (especially the STK)

The other clan mechs simply do not have the necessary attributes to deal with a team of large laser stalkers...

Livewyr, on 18 May 2015 - 04:35 AM, said:

with a 10 ton advantage each.

I have great news for you! See, I read all of the patch notes so I noticed that the Stalker also got nerfed. Oh, and the IS lost 10 tons on their dropdeck about a week before this patch will go live. Now that you're aware of other things going on regarding balance, maybe you could stop myopically obsessing over one specific set of changes?

No? Well it was worth a shot.

Edit:
...changes that haven't even released yet, ffs!

Edited by Domenoth, 18 May 2015 - 10:17 AM.

[CyclonerM]

LonestarrSB, on 18 May 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

ya but lorewise isn't it also dishonorable for clanners to fight without disadvantages like being out numbered (i may be wrong on this)? if you went full lore this game would be totally different.

Not exactly. You do not know what you got yourself into..

Clan commanders bid for the right to lead an assault, using only the minimum necessary amount of forces deemed necessary to defeat the opponent. This prevents huge losses of equipment (remember the Clan homeworlds have scarce resources, let us contextualize everthing, shall we?) and promts the commanders to make the best use of what they have at their disposal.

In the lore, a Trinary of 15 Clan OmniMechs could take on a battalion of IS 3025 tech 'Mechs and still win.. Or, to put it in a MWO context, a commander may well bid a single Star of 5 Omnies vs a company of 12 IS 'Mechs (with maybe Elemental and/or AeroSpace support if the IS unit had armor, infantry, fighters, etc.).

You want to go full lore? I do!

-Only the high ranking officers in your unit or your elite players have access to LosTech (aka Tech 2, aka Star League tech: Gauss rifles, XL engines, DHS..)
-You have to use stock BT armor values (half of MWO stock values) and stock loadouts
-Same for Clan mechs
-12 IS 'Mechs vs 5 Clan 'Mechs
-The Clan force would know by 3050 that IS units do not fight honorably and would not waste time challenging the IS forced to a batchall, so no 1vs1.

Good luck with it

I had so much fun destroying heavier IS 'Mechs with my stock Kit Fox A, or stock tech 1 Banshees with my Gargoyle Prime, when i was doing stock battles

[madhermit]

Clans are dead. So is CW.

Edited by madhermit, 20 May 2015 - 12:32 AM.

[madhermit]

WonderSparks, on 17 May 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

Honestly? I think responses like this are just overreactions.

-18% energy cooldown +18% laser duration

overreaction. half of the maps are ******* volcanoes. TBR cant do anything but energy well. and now this ****.

seriously. GET OUT. GET OUT NOW!