309 replies to this topic

[Neutron IX]

And why I hope all you other "Phoenixes" will also.

First, let me start by acknowledging that I know some/many of you may feel differently, and that I hope you'll hear me out, and consider voting with me after reading some of my thoughts.

1st: It could pave the way for new Phoenix Packs down the road. Phoenix Pack II anyone? In my dream world it could contain Valkyrie, Phoenix Hawk, Marauder, and Marauder II, but feel free to imagine your own favorite version of this.

2nd: It could infuse more interest and excitement from current players who missed out the first time around, or from new players who are maybe familiar with, or interested in, old Battletech, into the game, and support, interest, and ultimately funding, are all keys to the longevity/success of MWO.

3rd: It could allow an opportunity for some of you who did not, or were not able to at the time, to upgrade lower levels of Phoenix packs to Overlord packs.

4th: It allows PGI to revamp the Phoenix content to be more along the lines of what has launched with the newer packs, and then retroactively apply it to the account of Original Phoenix owners as well (while allowing us to also hang on to our original content).

5th: I don't personally feel it would affect me negatively in any way (though I know some of you might disagree), so I see no reason not to.

6th: And finally, for those who might be leaning towards a "NO" vote, consider that it might create opportunities for PGI to add bonus rewards/items for Original Phoenix owners, as a way of saying "Thank You", and assuaging in some small way, the concerns that some of you have about it. Some possibilities I could suggest, would be along the lines of the 2 following suggestions...

1). As with current mech packs, which grant all levels of titles, and badges to the top tier package owners, every Overlord would now have all 4 badges and titles. THEN, perhaps original Phoenix owners could be granted NEW titles and badges that reflect the "Original Owner" status, say something like "Phoenix Overlord", "Phoenix Talon", etc. And a modified version of our original badge, possibly the badge we originally had with a border of fire, or something to that effect. Also perhaps there could be new cockpit items that show the original badge but with a border of fire around the icon. Medallions, mugs, steins, etc.

2). New Phoenix packs could perhaps have the same camo for the Phoenix variants as the Resistance mechs currently have, and Original Phoenix owners could be gifted a new set of Phoenix mechs with the Resistance camo, or even, the Resistance camo as something that they could apply to their Phoenix mechs, but the original Phoenix camo would still be unique to original Phoenix owners.

Anyhow, the truth is, for me, I'd personally vote yes even without the above additions to the idea, but I can understand where people who disagree with me are coming from, and would hope, that we might all vote "YES" when the time comes, if things like the above were added to the mix.

Any other Phoenix owners wish to chime in?

Cheers!

-Rip

[Dino Might]

I say sell them again for two reasons:

More $ to PGI keeps the game F2P and continuing to develop.
Gets people opportunity to buy mechs they may have missed out on. It does not hurt me one bit to have others get what I have. It's not a zero-sum game. Exclusivity demands are for children.

[JediPanther]

I don't remember which tier I got. I know I have up to the thunderbolt but not the assault one.

[Neutron IX]

JediPanther, on 17 May 2015 - 08:52 PM, said:

I don't remember which tier I got. I know I have up to the thunderbolt but not the assault one.

You have the "Guardian" pack then I do believe.

[IraqiWalker]

I personally will vote yes.

[Ted Wayz]

Rebuttal point by point.

First, no pack can contain an unseen without Harmony Gold's permission. So point 1 is moot.

Second, infuse more interest? Then why didn't they buy it the first time? Not a big fan of re-do's for whiners that could have but didn't. Wish I had bought more Beta and Unlimited Magic cards. Doesn't mean I am hounding WoC to reprint Mox's.

Third, do you really think people are that hot for a Battlemaster?

Fourth, they haven't said they would, why do you think they will when they are obligated to do nothing?

Fifth, try looking into the future. You own a limited commodity that doesn't currently have a market. But that doesn't mean it won't in the future. I am not so quick to devalue assets.

If you haven't noticed PGI is in the midst of a cash grab as they get ready for Steam. They are looking for a quick way to make cash WITHOUT ADDING CONTENT by asking people with a limited edition to give up their rights. Not only give up their rights but do so without any thought of compensation. It is like destroying all the original Picasso's and offering everyone prints.

That is my Overlord opinion.

[Ted Wayz]

And what is childish is asking the same question over and over until you get a yes. Which is exactly what PGI is doing.

[Khobai]

im voting no to cancel your yes vote.

[Stonefalcon]

Even if the Pheonix pack owners vote no - to keep their mechs unique and to feel somewhat important - it would be in PGI's best interests to open the pack for renewed purchase. Like OP states, it's more money for PGI to keep development up and give players what they want.

Just look at the Urbie and what an instant hit that was to buy.

[Ted Wayz]

The Urbie was new content. You would like to set the precedent that PGI can make $$ without new content. So what sacred cows are next? Gold mech skins? Founder skins?

Really the biggest danger for PGI is to bite the hands that feed them well. I do not think antics like this in the short term will serve them well in the long term.

[Herr Vorragend]

Easy: rework the new quirklist and get a yes. Release the new quirks and get a no.
Its simple

[MoonUnitBeta]

Khobai, on 17 May 2015 - 09:10 PM, said:

im voting no to cancel your yes vote.

Voting yes to cancel yours!


But, it's more because of other reasons...

[Neutron IX]

Ted Wayz, on 17 May 2015 - 09:19 PM, said:

The Urbie was new content. You would like to set the precedent that PGI can make $$ without new content. So what sacred cows are next? Gold mech skins? Founder skins?

Really the biggest danger for PGI is to bite the hands that feed them well. I do not think antics like this in the short term will serve them well in the long term.

I, for one, will not feel as though my hand has been bitten, and I've fed them plenty.

*Edited because I didn't intend to include both quotes. Forums. Heh,

Edited by Rip Snorgan, 17 May 2015 - 09:29 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Ted Wayz, on 17 May 2015 - 09:19 PM, said:

Really the biggest danger for PGI is to bite the hands that feed them well. I do not think antics like this in the short term will serve them well in the long term.

Seeing as how they're first asking the people, says something.
They're not just going out and going, "OH.. haha so yea, remember that Phoenix package? Remember what Phoenix's do?
WELL...
IT'S BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaCK! D: D "

Nothing about Founders is going to return. It's obvious that those packages are nailed shut, tucked away and forever left alone. I know that's territory that any developer would unanimously agree would be suicide, as would everyone with a brain. Even if it's just a small teeny brain, like the size of a cashew. They would agree, too. lol

Phoenix Package is the one package that was exclusive. I had a feeling that maybe they had plans to do this for all the packages, but the "business model" later changed and they realized that it's not something they could, or even should, do if they wanted to stay in business. So what's wrong with them coming to us and seeing where we sit on the matter? I think that's a humble thing to do.

[stjobe]

I'm going to vote "no".

When you market something as a one-time offer, you'd better be prepared to never offer it again.

[Dino Might]

Ted Wayz, on 17 May 2015 - 09:05 PM, said:

Rebuttal point by point.

First, no pack can contain an unseen without Harmony Gold's permission. So point 1 is moot.

Second, infuse more interest? Then why didn't they buy it the first time? Not a big fan of re-do's for whiners that could have but didn't. Wish I had bought more Beta and Unlimited Magic cards. Doesn't mean I am hounding WoC to reprint Mox's.

Third, do you really think people are that hot for a Battlemaster?

Fourth, they haven't said they would, why do you think they will when they are obligated to do nothing?

Fifth, try looking into the future. You own a limited commodity that doesn't currently have a market. But that doesn't mean it won't in the future. I am not so quick to devalue assets.

If you haven't noticed PGI is in the midst of a cash grab as they get ready for Steam. They are looking for a quick way to make cash WITHOUT ADDING CONTENT by asking people with a limited edition to give up their rights. Not only give up their rights but do so without any thought of compensation. It is like destroying all the original Picasso's and offering everyone prints.

That is my Overlord opinion.

The mistake is thinking that digital content is a commodity with value for trading/bartering. Firstly, it's not a zero-sum game. More people getting it does not mean you get less access to yours. It's the height of childishness to demand that nobody gets what you have, because you consider it less valuable if they do.

Does more people having those mechs with the special geometry make yours less useful/effective/available? Your complaint is centered around the idea that more people having those mechs will make you feel less special. Are you kidding me? A mech with a special letter is what you need to make you feel special? I feel bad for you if this is really the case.

If it helps, I'll give you an exclusive super secret squirrel society trading card. I will only make one of them, and it's all yours.

[Neutron IX]

Ted Wayz, on 17 May 2015 - 09:05 PM, said:

Rebuttal point by point.

First, no pack can contain an unseen without Harmony Gold's permission. So point 1 is moot.

Second, infuse more interest? Then why didn't they buy it the first time? Not a big fan of re-do's for whiners that could have but didn't. Wish I had bought more Beta and Unlimited Magic cards. Doesn't mean I am hounding WoC to reprint Mox's.

Third, do you really think people are that hot for a Battlemaster?

Fourth, they haven't said they would, why do you think they will when they are obligated to do nothing?

Fifth, try looking into the future. You own a limited commodity that doesn't currently have a market. But that doesn't mean it won't in the future. I am not so quick to devalue assets.

If you haven't noticed PGI is in the midst of a cash grab as they get ready for Steam. They are looking for a quick way to make cash WITHOUT ADDING CONTENT by asking people with a limited edition to give up their rights. Not only give up their rights but do so without any thought of compensation. It is like destroying all the original Picasso's and offering everyone prints.

That is my Overlord opinion.

Thanks for your reply. And we clearly disagree, so I hope however this ends up going, we'll both be able to continue to enjoy the game eh?

Anyhow...

1). Ah yes, the old HG situation (I'm well aware of it). My point was simply that, if at some point down the road, the option becomes available, that this could create a precedent. Especially if, as it seems may be the case, PGI is moving in the direction of keeping packs available in their store in perpetuity. A Phoenix pack always available making way for a Phoenix II pack being the same.

2). False equivalency. In this case, you DON'T own Mox's, and you aren't asking them to make more, I DO own a Phoenix Overlord pack, and I don't mind at all if they make more for other people to enjoy. Furthermore, who's to say who is or isn't interested? I'm sure there are people out there who wanted one at the time, but couldn't afford it for one reason or another (which is the exact reason that I don't have a Founder's pack), or people who are new to the game, that didn't know Phoenix packs were a thing at the time they launched. All I'm saying is, there are likely those out there (I know you can find plenty of them on the forums for example) who would be happy to have a chance to purchase this given the chance, and there's no real reason to believe otherwise.

3). Again, see the second part of the above point.

4). They haven't said they would, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't. They hadn't said they would release the Urbanmech, but enough people asked them to, that eventually they did. So this is us "asking them" right?

5). I don't personally view my MWO content as a "commodity" or an "asset". It cannot legally be resold, there's no legal secondary market for it. The only "value" it holds at all is the value of "exclusivity", which to me, personally, equals no value at all. Rather, the only real value that matters to me, is that I enjoy it, which I do. And I see no reason that anyone else should not have that same opportunity.

"Cash grabs" eh? I don't personally possess any inside information on PGI's financials, nor on their marketing strategy, so I feel that the only basis for that is personal interpretation from a completely outside perspective, and as someone that works in the world of small businesses, I can tell you that I don't place much stock in what I "think" a company's financial strategy is. I will respectfully disagree wholeheartedly on this one.

Cheers!

-Rip

[MikeBend]

Ted Wayz, on 17 May 2015 - 09:05 PM, said:

Then why didn't they buy it the first time?

I discovered this game in fall 2014, good enough reason to you?

Look ppl, this guy prevents me from giving muneez to teh PGI.

[Neutron IX]

stjobe, on 17 May 2015 - 09:48 PM, said:

I'm going to vote "no".

When you market something as a one-time offer, you'd better be prepared to never offer it again.

All that word meant, in that context, is that we "exclusively", as owners of Phoenix packs, unlocked that pattern for our standard variant Phoenix mechs, for free, with our purchase. Which we did, and any new future Phoenix packs will never change that.

The pattern is now available for purchase by anyone in the store, for any mech, Phoenix owner or not, and has been for a long time now.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

As much as I want the neat custom geometry and pattern the Phoenix mechs have, I'd rather have Resistance 3, or a Clan Busters pack.

Maybe the Clanners can get a Tukayyid Legends pack?