309 replies to this topic

[Domoneky]

I'm Voting No Because I say No.

[Herr Vorragend]

Let´s make a deal:

Get PGI not to release such insane quirks and you will get my "yes" for the phoenix resale

[Torric]

I do not get you people. They said it was a limited time offer, never again available.

You guys really want to give them an excuse to be lazy, recycle content, and make money on it too? Are you aware what kind of precedent you are setting?

I will vote "NO", and i do hope all sane members of this community will do the same. It is a question of principle. That is all.

Edited by Torric, 18 May 2015 - 02:42 AM.

[o0Marduk0o]

Torric, on 18 May 2015 - 02:42 AM, said:

I do not get you people. They said it was a limited time offer, never again available.

This is what they said, yes.
The fact is, players asked them to make the packages available again.
Now PGI ask PP owners, who bought it under the statement "limited time offer", whether it is ok.
You have not a single reason to blame PGI for anything here. It is your choice as PP owner to vote for it.
People who don't care for exclusivity may vote for yes, so where is the problem?

Apart from the limited time offer, PP was a normal mech package like Resistance or Clan Packs. It wouldn't be a precedent if they re-released PP. They might not make limited mech packages again, that's it.
Founder packs were different.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I could care less if the Phoenix pack goes back on sale. I'll vote yes.

We have to earn the vote first though. Ax of this morning it is only about 85% complete. We should hit 100% by Tuesday, but it will be close I think.

[Joseph Mallan]

Rip Snorgan, on 17 May 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

And why I hope all you other "Phoenixes" will also.

First, let me start by acknowledging that I know some/many of you may feel differently, and that I hope you'll hear me out, and consider voting with me after reading some of my thoughts.

1st: It could pave the way for new Phoenix Packs down the road. Phoenix Pack II anyone? In my dream world it could contain Valkyrie, Phoenix Hawk, Marauder, and Marauder II, but feel free to imagine your own favorite version of this.

2nd: It could infuse more interest and excitement from current players who missed out the first time around, or from new players who are maybe familiar with, or interested in, old Battletech, into the game, and support, interest, and ultimately funding, are all keys to the longevity/success of MWO.

3rd: It could allow an opportunity for some of you who did not, or were not able to at the time, to upgrade lower levels of Phoenix packs to Overlord packs.

4th: It allows PGI to revamp the Phoenix content to be more along the lines of what has launched with the newer packs, and then retroactively apply it to the account of Original Phoenix owners as well (while allowing us to also hang on to our original content).

5th: I don't personally feel it would affect me negatively in any way (though I know some of you might disagree), so I see no reason not to.

6th: And finally, for those who might be leaning towards a "NO" vote, consider that it might create opportunities for PGI to add bonus rewards/items for Original Phoenix owners, as a way of saying "Thank You", and assuaging in some small way, the concerns that some of you have about it. Some possibilities I could suggest, would be along the lines of the 2 following suggestions...

1). As with current mech packs, which grant all levels of titles, and badges to the top tier package owners, every Overlord would now have all 4 badges and titles. THEN, perhaps original Phoenix owners could be granted NEW titles and badges that reflect the "Original Owner" status, say something like "Phoenix Overlord", "Phoenix Talon", etc. And a modified version of our original badge, possibly the badge we originally had with a border of fire, or something to that effect. Also perhaps there could be new cockpit items that show the original badge but with a border of fire around the icon. Medallions, mugs, steins, etc.

2). New Phoenix packs could perhaps have the same camo for the Phoenix variants as the Resistance mechs currently have, and Original Phoenix owners could be gifted a new set of Phoenix mechs with the Resistance camo, or even, the Resistance camo as something that they could apply to their Phoenix mechs, but the original Phoenix camo would still be unique to original Phoenix owners.

Anyhow, the truth is, for me, I'd personally vote yes even without the above additions to the idea, but I can understand where people who disagree with me are coming from, and would hope, that we might all vote "YES" when the time comes, if things like the above were added to the mix.

Any other Phoenix owners wish to chime in?

Cheers!

-Rip

At this point in the time Line the Marauder II is a Dragoon only Mech. Possibly Barber's Marauders II as well, but I thing that comes a little later.

[C E Dwyer]

Voting no.

1 is a pointless argument, Russ has already approached harmony gold, and has received silence for his troubles, Harmony gold only releases limited rights if they can make millions hence the new film coming out, soon .....

2 I'm sick to death of PGI breaking their word time and time again, as mentioned time and time again Exclusive camo and colours becoming free days before the injection, now apparently Limited time only means Limited until we want the possibility of making more cash.

3 PGI goes back on its word so often its sickening, and this vote is just an attempt to make it easy for themselves to do it all over again, to be able to point a finger at us the pack owners and say, but, but, you said we could.

4 How the hell do I know its an honest vote, this is monitored by PGI not some out side source and from where I sit, only the NO vote will give any credibility to PGI, as not being a grasping bunch of second hand car salesmen, and actually being people worth the slightest bit of trust, and to further support them with my cash.

[kesmai]

This overlord votes no. What is so hard to understand with limited time offer and exclusive?

Edited by kesmai, 18 May 2015 - 03:41 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Cathy, on 18 May 2015 - 03:38 AM, said:

Voting no.

1 is a pointless argument, Russ has already approached harmony gold, and has received silence for his troubles, Harmony gold only releases limited rights if they can make millions hence the new film coming out, soon .....

2 I'm sick to death of PGI breaking their word time and time again, as mentioned time and time again Exclusive camo and colours becoming free days before the injection, now apparently Limited time only means Limited until we want the possibility of making more cash.

3 PGI goes back on its word so often its sickening, and this vote is just an attempt to make it easy for themselves to do it all over again, to be able to point a finger at us the pack owners and say, but, but, you said we could.

4 How the hell do I know its an honest vote, this is monitored by PGI not some out side source and from where I sit, only the NO vote will give any credibility to PGI, as not being a grasping bunch of second hand car salesmen, and actually being people worth the slightest bit of trust, and to further support them with my cash.

Limited time only Means it won't go on forever. If I stop providing something for a while, then start providing it I am limiting the time it is available. If they had said "One time only" then put it back on the shelf, then they are doing something wrong. But limited time isn't one time only.

Exclusive=Only available with "this". Hellslinger's paint is exclusive... for now. Something that used to be exclusive can change over time. It is a fact of merchandising.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 18 May 2015 - 03:45 AM.

[kesmai]

Nope Joseph. A limited time offer is just that: limited. Don't use sophism on things that are obvious.
edit: That is the reason why pgi asks the phoenix buyers. They want to assure there's no legal trouble with the fact the sale was 'limited time' only.

Edited by kesmai, 18 May 2015 - 11:04 AM.

[SgtMagor]

Isnt this like asking the Founders have PGI re-release the (F) mechs???

[MechWarrior849305]

Where Do You (I can) vote?

[Milocinia]

Rip Snorgan, on 17 May 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

It could pave the way for new Phoenix Packs down the road. Phoenix Pack II anyone? In my dream world it could contain Valkyrie, Phoenix Hawk, Marauder, and Marauder II,

That would be nice but...

Harmony Gold said:

Lolno

And the official Marauder reseens are beyond hideous.

But hey it's been a while since we had one of these threads.

p.s. I'm voting yes.

Edited by Kyocera, 18 May 2015 - 03:51 AM.

[Tom Sawyer]

I am going to vote yes. I bought the overlord package. Yes I understand people are howling about exclusive rights, false marketing, it was meant to be unique. I do not want others to have my special toy.

Seriously though will allowing people a chance to buy something again cause the game to fail? Will your computer explode? If there are too many phoenix mechs will your own refuse to power up?

Its A GAME. Digital ones and zeros. No tangible hard substance with value like real estate or gold. It maybe a crap game in many ways but I believe PGI is trying to fix it. If people are paying TANGIBLE money for ones and zero's it might lead to something getting fixed and keeping the game running so be it.

I have heard the wails of late the game die. Someone else will pick it up and in a few years we will have a better online game. Bird in the hand vs bird in the bush comes to mind.

Toss the original owners a bone. A special mech variant or cockpit item. Make that exclusive for say 1 year.

As others have pointed out some the of the phoenix mechs are NOT the greatest. PGI loves to use the quirks as band **** or cripplers to get other mechs into play. Let people buy the pack and see for themselves.

[Sparks Murphey]

You've got some good points, but I'll still be voting no. Here's my reasoning:

As you point out, the value in exclusivity is that it makes me a member of a private group of individuals, and that it's mean of me to prevent other individuals from also being part of a private group. This I agree with. If Project Phoenix were a one time thing, then I'd feel bad for lording it over those who didn't get to be a part of something special.

Except... hang on, that's already what happened. We had the Founders getting to be a special group. Then, some time later, we got the opportunity for people to be in Project Phoenix as a special group. Then came the opportunity to be one of the first to own the first Clan pack, along with the chance to be recognised with the Legacy 'Mechs (Centurion, Atlas and King Crab) if you had purchased a pack, which a lot of Inner Sphere players disliked since the only way to buy in at that point was to buy Clan. And thus the first Resistance pack was created, allowing people to be special in a way that was different from the Project Phoenix pack, but still support the Inner Sphere.

My point is, if the only way to be special was to own a Founders pack, or a Phoenix Pack, or whatever else, then yes, I'd agree with you. However, these packs have been consistently coming out and show no sign of slowing up. There will always be a new point for a player to distinguish themselves. Such distinguishing marks are a way of creating our identity online, to say "I was there and did that thing". Sometimes these are the results of financial support, sometimes they are the result of online play (such as the "Ace of Spades" title, or the cockpit items people earned through play at Tukayyid, or weekend challenges. I still feel dirty having "earned" a Spring Hula Girl in the Phoenix Rising challenge that was an exclusive reward for people who achieved an earlier challenge I wasn't part of).

As you say, the exclusivity has no monetary value. But it does have meaning, in that it ties me to a particular time period. Reopening the package for sale dilutes that meaning.

[Brody319]

stjobe, on 17 May 2015 - 09:48 PM, said:

I'm going to vote "no".

When you market something as a one-time offer, you'd better be prepared to never offer it again.

ah yes, the exclusive paint.
I know
This new phoenix pack will just not come with the paintjob, boom, older phoenix mechs retain some kind of value since the paint clarifies them as the "first batch" and people get to buy the phoenix package if they want.

[reign]

As an overlord I will vote yes, but mainly because it is self serving.

When It came out I bought up to the 80 dollar package, but could not get the reinforcements. I would like another crack at that now.

[Choppah]

The way I see it, making the Phoenix Pack a exclusive timed offer in the first place was a terrible idea. Seeing as the Clan Wave 1 pack is still for sale after all this time, PGI realizes their mistake. I honestly don't care about other players getting an Overlord pack like I have, I bought it for the value and time saved on grinding. For a long time, the only thing worth it was the Shadow Hawk, now most of the rest of the pack is finally viable. Finally, players who started playing after the offer ended get their chance.

[Bullseye69]

reign, on 18 May 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

As an overlord I will vote yes, but mainly because it is self serving.

When It came out I bought up to the 80 dollar package, but could not get the reinforcements. I would like another crack at that now.

Ditto I didn'y pick up the saber want a second chance did realize how fun the griffin would be dying t try the wolverine to.

[stjobe]

Rip Snorgan, on 17 May 2015 - 10:50 PM, said:

Two bits. I don't see it stated anywhere, that it would never be released to anyone else, ever. Nor do I infer that it is implied. Even at the time it was placed out there, when I bought it, I read it as, "Neat, I'll get this unlocked on my mechs because I'm buying this now", and that is all. Sort of like, we got advanced access, at no extra cost, and that was the reward.

Our personal interpretations of the above likely explain a lot about our very different reactions when they made the pattern available to everyone else, since I was definitely NOT one of the people that got pissed.

Okay. First, let me quote the Phoenix FAQ:

Quote

Q: How are the Phoenix Battlemechs cosmetically and functionally different from the Mechs already in-game?
A: The Phoenix Variants of each Project Phoenix Battlemech comes packed with the following cosmetic and functional perks:
Unique and Exclusive Custom Designed Exterior
30% C-Bill boost
10% Loyalty Point Boost
Important! These Phoenix Variants will NEVER again be available to purchase or to unlock once the sale offer has ended.

That last line there is pretty important. It even begins with the word "Important!".


Then, let me show you this as a way of explaining why people were a bit ticked off.

This was the original Phoenix final stretch-goal image (if we sell enough packages, those who pre-order gets this):



When the stretch-goal was met, they turned around and said it "had never been exclusive", going so far as to change the graphic to this:



Notice how the word I picked out of the first graphic is mysteriously missing?

Sure, "it was never meant to be exclusive" - how then is it "the ultimate loyalty reward"? Ultimate how? Loyal to who or what? Is it even a reward?

Then they released it as a regular camo for anyone to buy. Exclusive, my sweet metal rear center torso.

So yeah. I'm voting "no".

PGI, make a new pack with the Phoenix 'mechs if you want - toss in anything you care to, premium time, cockpit items, whatever. But if you sell those (P) 'mechs again, with their exclusive (there's that word again) geometry and their CB & LP bonuses... let me quote that FAQ again:

"Important! These Phoenix Variants will NEVER again be available to purchase or to unlock once the sale offer has ended."