13 replies to this topic

[KoshiManiac]

Picture this I was in my support mech hiding behind a mountain providing ECM and Tag cover for the mechs in our front line when the next thing I realize we were over run and I was the last mech alive out in front.

Knowing that I didn't stand a chance at getting to the top of the hill where the friendlies were I did the next best thing and started circling the closest big mech which happened to be a Zeus. Hitting him with a ER Large and Tag I didn't do much damage myself but add to it that there were friendly missle boats on top of the hill and also the entire remaining enemy team in a mexican stand off type of circle around me and the Zeus I could only imagine the number of mechs getting hit by either missles from my team or friendly fire when 80% of the shots missed and one side of the circle was close enough to do Flamer damage.

Needless to say I died but this shoot out lasted a few minutes leaving no mech on the enemy team with enough health or armor to stand a shot at getting up the hill where my team was waiting and watching in spectator mode the next time I saw the Zeus he just arrived to the fight with very little surviving armor.

Moral of the story... sometimes its best to have fewer mechs shooting at the flying distraction in front of you and instead go after the guys who aren't on a suicide run.

Edited by KoshiManiac, 17 May 2015 - 11:33 PM.

[HimseIf]

But that is still an awesome story, sounds like fun times.

[Appogee]

I die a little inside whenever someone tells me they brought a ''support Mech" to the battle.

Edited by Appogee, 18 May 2015 - 01:49 AM.

[KoshiManiac]

Even with the new bonuses they don't get what they deserve. I can't do the damage as others but if piloted right a mech that brings useful equip to the front but doesn't make the kind of obvious target that a fighting mech does will change the course of the battle more than another big guy could.

[Surn]

A well placed uav turns the tide of battle

[Josef Koba]

Appogee, on 18 May 2015 - 01:46 AM, said:

I die a little inside whenever someone tells me they brought a ''support Mech" to the battle.

What would you prefer them bring? What is your ideal 12 mech drop deck, assuming that all mechs are driven by competent pilots?

[Appogee]

Josef Koba, on 18 May 2015 - 06:58 AM, said:

What would you prefer them bring? What is your ideal 12 mech drop deck, assuming that all mechs are driven by competent pilots?

I don't want "support", I want team mates who will step up and actively engage the enemy with the rest of us.

In my experience, the people who define their role as ''support'' are the ones hanging at the back, not bringing their guns to bear on the enemy when the rest of us are getting pounded into oblivion engaging the enemy.

ECM and "TAG cover" (whatever that is) don't kill enemy Mechs - shooting them does.

Sure, we could have an erudite discussion about the different combat roles Mechs can play, how a 12-man drop coordinated deck can actually execute a more advanced role warfare approach, and how ECM is definitely a useful adjunct to an attacking team yada yada yada.

However, that's not what we're talking about here, where the OP states he was "...hiding behind a mountain providing ECM and TAG cover for the mechs in our front line when the next thing I realize we were over run and I was the last mech alive out in front". The reason the OP's team was "overrun" was because he was "hiding behind a mountain providing ECM and tag cover" (whatever that is), instead of actively engaging.

I grow very weary of watching the PUG team I'm on die because we're effectively outnumbered from the moment of engagement. I check the minimap and see up to three guys standing way back from the fight ''providing support"... which effectively means less damage being delivered to the enemy, and higher concentration of incoming enemy fire on those of us who are actively engaged.




TL:DR The "support" I need is friendly Mechs actively engaged with the enemy, not hiding behind mountains providing "TAG cover" (whatever that is) and justifying this to themselves as having provided "support".



Sorry OP, but I've been "supported" to so many losses that it's becoming a bit of a red flag to me.

[JC Daxion]

to me every mech is a support mech.. the team that doesn't support one another looses.. Earlier i had a match playing my "support commando" I ended up having a pretty super match with 4 kills +6 assists and 850 damage.. the damn thing was on fire!

But just because a person is in a light, or has LRM's or tag, or what ever.. it does not mean they are not going to add damage as well.

Though i can say i have also had matches were i did around 250 damage, but distracted enough that my buddies haul in kill after kill targeting backside armor as they turn to shoot the bug..

Just like i got no problem supporting a light when i'm in a catapult, as they brawl it, and i rain down death from 400m away.. good times...

[KoshiManiac]

Today in my first match with that mech I had gotten 8 assists and dealt 44 damage. I see people complaining about how the guys with ECM got themselves killed too early on and the only time I took damage was when I had a friendly mech run into me or when I was about to slip off the high ground (it was on VIridian Bog) and it was either fall next to two enemy mechs or jj in front of a friendly Catapult as it was firing LRMs.

Do I engage the enemy with that mech yes. The only two weapons on that mech are Tag and ER Large and some would argue but I feel that the benefits outweigh the cost to have a mech providing ECM, Tag, and AMS at the cost of a mech designed for offense.

A non MWO analogy is when I spent 8 years helping out one football team or another at my high school (all four years I attended plus another 4 years that I was asked to come back). When the Athletic Director said that I had been there long enough the head coach went to him saying that I should be allowed to stay because I was one of the most important part of his staff. I wasn't a player out on the field making the plays or one of the coaches calling them but since I was out there taking a lot of the work off their plates so they could focus on more important things I did an important job.

[Appogee]

KoshiManiac, on 18 May 2015 - 09:02 PM, said:

Today in my first match with that mech I had gotten 8 assists and dealt 44 damage.

Please understand, that is not success, that is failure. You were one twelfth of the team, and you did miniscule damage to 8 enemy Mechs. You are lucky the rest of the team carried you to victory, despite you doing so little damage.

Now, I'm sure your ECM helped the rest of the team. Your TAG may even have, too. But your ECM and TAG also help your team while you're doing something far more useful ... shooting enemy Mechs and giving them another target and defence vector to divide their attention.

KoshiManiac, on 18 May 2015 - 09:02 PM, said:

I see people complaining about how the guys with ECM got themselves killed too early on and the only time I took damage was when I had a friendly mech run into me

And all that time you were hiding, the enemy had one less Mech to worry about, one more opportunity to concentrate fire on someone else on your team, one less flank to not defend against, etc.

Hiding is not helping. It enables the enemy to focus their fire better on the rest of your team, and prevents them from taking the 2 damage per second that your ERL could be doing, or the 2.56 DPS that 2MLs on your Mech should be contributing to the main goal of taking enemy Mechs out of the match.

KoshiManiac, on 18 May 2015 - 09:02 PM, said:

Do I engage the enemy with that mech yes. The only two weapons on that mech are Tag and ER Large and some would argue but I feel that the benefits outweigh the cost to have a mech providing ECM, Tag, and AMS at the cost of a mech designed for offense.

If you have ECM and an ERL then you should be flanking and/or harassing from the rear. You could be getting the enemy to turn around (and stop firing at your frontline Mechs) or have some of them chase you and thereby further blunt their attack on your frontline Mechs for several minutes, etc. If you're particularly clever, you can 'kite' some of those enemies back to your team where they can be killed.

That is the kind of 'support' your team needs.

Hiding behind a mountain providing an ECM bubble (easily countered if one of the enemy has either line of sight, a UAV and/or TAG) while doing only 44 damage is making your team fail, not supporting them.

KoshiManiac, on 18 May 2015 - 09:02 PM, said:

A non MWO analogy is when I spent 8 years helping out one football team or another at my high school

But you are not a coach in this game, you are one of only 12 players out there on the field.

To use your own analogy, you are currently leaning up against the goal posts behind the other 11 guys on your team, when in fact you should be tackling the opposition, distracting them, giving them one more field position that they have to defend against, etc.




I am writing all this up because it's important for you and all newer players to understand how teams win in this game. Unless you are in a highly-organised 12-man team executing predetermined battle strategies and role warfare, or playing Conquest mode, then you need to engage the enemy constantly with your team in order to maximise your team's success.

Every minute that a player hides behind a mountain not shooting, means their team is doing less damage, is receiving proportionately more damage, and has the balance of the battle tipping in favour of the enemy.

Edited by Appogee, 19 May 2015 - 02:26 AM.

[KoshiManiac]

What I'm wondering is what type of mech is your preferred. For me its the light variety. Why would someone choose a mech that could carry few weapons, and get killed by a single lucky shot (happened to me once and to several others as well) you may ask? My best answer is the adrenaline rush from running circles around the enemy while lumbering hulks like the mech you likely pilot are just arriving on the scene to get the kill and the glory. When I say that I am hiding behind a mountain I mean hiding behind a mountain 5 meters from the big brawlers who are on the front lines and sticking my head out of my safe spot to see what I could shoot.

My suggestion is that you go to the trial mechs when you get on next and see how long you could survive and then watch other light pilots after you get killed and see what they deal with.

As for the football analogy watch any sport and look for the guys who you have no idea what their names are cuz chances are good that they work just as hard if not harder than any of the players who get the glory.

[Appogee]

KoshiManiac, on 19 May 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

What I'm wondering is what type of mech is your preferred. For me its the light variety.

I play all of them. It really just depends on what I'm levelling or trying out at the time. On reflection, Mediums are probably my favourite, followed by Heavies, and then Lights.

Incidentally, I just spent an entire weekend playing in my Phoenix Locust, which is about as fragile and difficult a Light Mech piloting challenge as you can have, between its meagre loadout, fragile armor, poor visibility cockpit etc.

But my comments above still apply to all the classes. Lights need to be engaging with the enemy constantly. Some Lights, like the Firestarter and Jenner, can be the most effective Mechs in the game. As I said above, an ECM Light like yours is ideally placed to be harassing from the flanks and the rear, making the enemy turn around, give chase, and otherwise take the pressure off the frontline brawlers.

KoshiManiac, on 19 May 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

As for the football analogy watch any sport and look for the guys who you have no idea what their names are cuz chances are good that they work just as hard if not harder than any of the players who get the glory.

There is no-one on the sideline during a MWO encounter. There are 24 guys on the battlefield, and you're one of them. The other 11 on your team need you to do your share.

The football analogy isn't relevant, sorry.

Edited by Appogee, 19 May 2015 - 10:06 AM.

[JC Daxion]

lights have lots of rolls, but it seems to my like the OP is starting to learn the roll of a light. Back when i was learning lights, my first 100 matches i had a whopping 90 damage average. I tried, but i was not very good in them. But i kept trying and practicing, and now i can play them pretty well. I mainly brawl in them, and try to distract, in main groups, or flank and get behind mechs to get um to turn.. get locks, if we have lrms, cap in conquest, at times base cap to get people to panic.. there is so much you can do to help.

But as players improve, they can deal more damage and help more with taking down mechs, but it has a lot to do with sticking with the group and knowing when to attack, and people learn that over time. So lighten up a bit on the guy that is just starting to learn the skills of being a light pilot.. because eventually you end up getting epic matches. Like the one day i saw a guy in a spider 5V, with a pair of MPL's wrecking everone, in the end the match came down to him and a direwolf.. the classic Davey vrs Goliath.. in the end the spider won, (and that dire was pretty darn fresh when the fight started and i was really wondering if he could pull it off.) In the end he did, and had pulled 1200 damage in a dual MPL spider. Truly an epic match..

I have not had that level, but this one from yesterday is up there, my best commando match, and had a couple around it in my raven 3L with a pair of ML's and a pair of SRM4's.. But i felt darn good after this match.. considering it took me 100's of matches before i even pulled ahead of the average 100 damage per match.

[KoshiManiac]

I agree with JC Daxion that lights have lots of roles. When I took Quicksilver out today he got 90 damage and two kills (damage pb for Quicksilver and pb for kills in a match). What Appogee seems to be saying is that I should run every light mech with the same attitude while from experience in my mechs they have their own attitude when it comes to play style and I would not be doing any good running my Koshi B (Quicksilver) like how I run Koshi Prime (named Scrappy Doo) since Scrappy does much better with in your face and Quicksilver is better for Tagging and Sniping. Also what ever gave you the idea that I wasn't in the fight when I say I was behind a mountain near the front line mechs it means that I wasn't out in the open getting shot at by everyone or as you suggested off on my own harrassing spreading the team thin.