62 replies to this topic

[Wolf Clearwater]

[Darwins Dog]

Dark DeLaurel, on 19 May 2015 - 09:27 PM, said:

Total Friendly Fire done by IS Mechs: 4,065,350
Total Friendly Fire done by Clan Mechs: 4,280,595

The top statistic from the Battle of Tukyyid shows that the Clan players were already dealing 215, 245 more damage to their own team due to this (not much else could be attributed to this being that much higher). That is a massive 51.29% increase in friendly fire damage on the Clan side!

4280595 is what percent of 8345945
= 4280595 / 8345945
= 0.512895
 
Converting decimal to a percentage:
0.512895 * 100 = 51.29%

Your math is correct, but still wrong. Clans did 51% of the TOTAL friendly fire in Tuk. That's about a 5% increase over IS. It probably is due to the longer beam durations and burst fire ACs, at least in part, but it's a pretty small difference.

Who has more ECM is up to how you count it. IS has more options when it comes to the number of different weight classes and weight increments that can take it. They have more options for drop decks in CW and more opportunities for ECM in pug matches (since clans have no ECM assaults or mediums). On the other hand, clans have more options for what they can do with their existing ECM mechs thanks to the ability to swap out omni pods. IS just has to hope the variant with ECM also has good hardpoints.

The quality of the ECM mech is a totally different story, and probably more important than quantity.

[Appogee]

[Wolf Clearwater]

Darwins Dog, on 20 May 2015 - 05:53 AM, said:

Who has more ECM is up to how you count it. IS has more options when it comes to the number of different weight classes and weight increments that can take it. They have more options for drop decks in CW and more opportunities for ECM in pug matches (since clans have no ECM assaults or mediums). On the other hand, clans have more options for what they can do with their existing ECM mechs thanks to the ability to swap out omni pods. IS just has to hope the variant with ECM also has good hardpoints.

The quality of the ECM mech is a totally different story, and probably more important than quantity.

The Shadow Cat and Arctic Cheetah will more than fix this issue. Yeah, the Clan's don't have an ECM assault. But the IS doesn't have any assaults that can boat 16 hard points...

The issue that people are complaining about, game balance between IS and Clans: They are fairly close, but the Clan mechs still have an noticeable, significant edge over IS mechs. Reigning in the TW and SCR is a good move on PGI's part. If it ends up being too awful, they will reduce the penalties some. Really, do something other than boat ER medium lasers and this doesn't matter much. Or better yet, use a Nova, that is what they are designed for.....

Edited by Wolf Clearwater, 20 May 2015 - 06:05 AM.

[Toaster Repair Pony]

Clams are right. Rage over the new IS ECM Phract.

Why couldn't it have been a more useful Heavy, like a Catapult or a Dragon even...

All rage over the Phract!

[Riyott]

White Bear 84, on 20 May 2015 - 05:44 AM, said:

Lol. Nope

1 SRM mech
1 AC/20 mech
1 LL mech
1 MPL/AC20 mech.

No ERLL at all and the deck kills it on the battlefield.

I would try this out, extra armor to protect the AC/20, no XL for extra survivability. Like a beefed up gorrilla version of the YLW minus the torso twist and insane RoF .

For a bit of speed can risk dropping the BAP and hope your team are running with it...

Sorry, I don't play IS in CW (or play much CW) so I don't particularly know the standard builds. The new CTF is still a bad mech, so...

[the_Grim_Squeaker]

Edited by BjornGhiest, 20 May 2015 - 07:32 AM.

[Commissar Aku]

So wait the clans are complaining about the worst mech in the game getting ECM? What's next they will complain that Urban Mechs are too OP and also need to be nerfed? How about this we will give up our ECM heavy if you give up every mech that can take more than 2 gauss rifles, as there isn't even 1 IS mech that can take more than 2.

[Riyott]

Commissar Aku, on 20 May 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

So wait the clans are complaining about the worst mech in the game getting ECM? What's next they will complain that Urban Mechs are too OP and also need to be nerfed? How about this we will give up our ECM heavy if you give up every mech that can take more than 2 gauss rifles, as there isn't even 1 IS mech that can take more than 2.

But... but... urbie mech is OP.

[Max Von Lakes]

Those hardpoints, and their locations scream one thing at me;

MARAUDER!

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cfe3a433f54aa5b

Edited by max11180, 20 May 2015 - 08:37 AM.

[anonymous161]

the issue is hit reg and how lights can tank better than most mediums can. is of everything is op in some way.

[anonymous161]

Wolf Clearwater, on 20 May 2015 - 06:04 AM, said:

The Shadow Cat and Arctic Cheetah will more than fix this issue. Yeah, the Clan's don't have an ECM assault. But the IS doesn't have any assaults that can boat 16 hard points...

The issue that people are complaining about, game balance between IS and Clans: They are fairly close, but the Clan mechs still have an noticeable, significant edge over IS mechs. Reigning in the TW and SCR is a good move on PGI's part. If it ends up being too awful, they will reduce the penalties some. Really, do something other than boat ER medium lasers and this doesn't matter much. Or better yet, use a Nova, that is what they are designed for.....

nova has weaker armor than a is light. that thing has lots of weapons which often cant use due to weak armor.

nt but sphere dominates

[CyborgDragon]

max11180, on 20 May 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:

Those hardpoints, and their locations scream one thing at me;

MARAUDER!

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cfe3a433f54aa5b

Yep when the -0XP comes out for c-bills I'm going to be moving my -1X Marauder build over to it

[Tarogato]

Dark DeLaurel, on 19 May 2015 - 09:27 PM, said:

IS ECM:
Lights: 5
Medium: 2
Heavy: 1
Assault: 1

Total: 9

Clan ECM:
Lights: 2
Medium: 0
Heavy: 1
Assault: 0

Total: 3

So do tell me how the Clans have more ECM `Mechs then the Inner Sphere?

Clans do have more ECM.


IS Lights: 4 (but really just 2)
- Raven (viable)
- Spider (it's okay)
- Commando (it's weak)
- Locust (it's stupidly fragile)

Clan Lights: 3
- Cheetah (it will be amazeballs)
- Kitfox (it's not terrible)
- Mist Lynx (amazing asset in the right hands)

IS Mediums: 2
- Griffin (it's a brawler, useless in half of CW engagements, and ammo dependent)
- Cicada (it's starved for DPS)

Clan Mediums: 1
- Shadow Cat (this thing will be interesting to have around)

IS Heavies: 1
- Cataphract (it's really not a great mech for CW except for brawly maps, and it's somewhat ammo dependent)

Clan Heavies: 9,006
- Hellbringer (it's versatile, and a staple of many Clan drop decks, and it can laservomit)

IS Assaults: 1
- Atlas (100 tons, and slowwww. Ammo dependent, but it usually doesn't last that long on the field.)

Clan Assaults: 0

---

Don't know where you got five IS lights from, we only have four. Anyways, the problem is... the Clans have the Hellbringer. It can do everything, it's useful in almost every engagement, it has nice hardpoints and plenty of them, and it has the tonnage to use them. The Innersphere doesn't have anything like this. You usually have to poke and prod at Innersphere players to get one of them to bring an ECM mech to a drop. None of the IS mechs that have ECM are mechs that are both good in all engagements and can put out the DPS. The CTF suffers from low hardpoints and barntorsos, the Atlas is stuck as a slow brawler, the Locust and Commando are fragile brawler/strikers, the Griffin is a straight up brawler, the Cicada is meh, but probably the best choice among all of them as far as versatility goes because it can at least do ranged work. The Hellbringer you can just slap into your deck and forgot about though, because it's a workhorse.

If the CTF had the high mounted ballistic that it was supposed to have, it might actually be more useful. Slap a gauss in it and ridge peek.

Edited by Tarogato, 20 May 2015 - 09:58 PM.

[Koshirou]

Darth Bane001, on 20 May 2015 - 09:07 PM, said:

nova has weaker armor than a is light. that thing has lots of weapons which often cant use due to weak armor.

The Nova has 320 points of armor. It is not possible to armor any light Mech to that degree. Furthermore, these 320 points represent ~95% of the Maximum (338) armor. The maximum armor for a light is 238. And no, any quirk bonuses the IS lights get does not make up for that.

[Revis Volek]

clanwolf3050, on 20 May 2015 - 05:00 AM, said:

Yes, Clans have more ECM mechs. 1 Spider can have ECM, every Kit Fox, and Mist Lynx, and Hellbringer can carry ECM. Now that means Clans have 9 ECM lights and 3 ECM heavies Now with Wave 3 coming adding 4 more lights and 4 mediums. Plus IS's ECM heavy is a Cataphract! 4 energy hard points, in arms, 1 ballistic, in RT, 1 ECM, and 1 AMS, in the LT. Not the best. The only thing that makes it a glass cannon is the fact it has ECM so the enemy focuses it. I do well in my Hellbringers both in PUG and CW matches. The only time I could say it was a "glass cannon" is when I made an error.

The Forlorn Hope play both Clans and IS, and on the Clan side the massive amounts of ECM is a Clan strong point. As Friendly Fire goes that's player error and has nothing to do with balance.

So buy more then one Spider 5d or more then one D-DC....

You point is rather moot, you can run 4 spiders which is.....4 ECM mechs!?!?!

maths....they are hard.

Appogee, on 20 May 2015 - 05:55 AM, said:

what Competitive mechs did the nerf before tukayid though?

[Rushin Roulette]

Wolf Clearwater, on 20 May 2015 - 05:34 AM, said:

A warrior should be able to count past 1 without using their fingers and toes.

Thats OK. if he takes off his shoes, he is able to count to 22, so enough to count all the ECM mechs... he just got confused by the 3rd pinky finger.

DarthRevis, on 20 May 2015 - 11:22 PM, said:

what Competitive mechs did the nerf before tukayid though?

I guess you completely forgot about the massive whine about the ERPPC Thunderbolt which was nerfed pretty hard (Actually so hard, that you hardly see them nowadays). Yes the nerf ofr the Thunderbolt was deserved and correct, but all this whine about the Timberwolf and Stormcrow now is exceedingly pathetic after the outrage at how "OP" the Thunderbolt was... but no Clan mech was ever "OP" bs that was going on back then.

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 20 May 2015 - 11:39 PM.

[Nightshade24]

Wolf Clearwater, on 19 May 2015 - 08:17 PM, said:

There are more Clan mechs with ECM than IS mechs. The Clans also have the ridiculously overpowered Timber Wolf and Stormcrow. The nerfs barely affect either of those unless you can't live without boating 6+ lasers. The whining about the nerfs to the TW and SCR, as well as the complaining about the Cataphract are at best, utterly laughable. Overall, the Clan mechs are still better than those the IS has. My merc unit fights on both the Clan and IS sides for CW, wherever the fighting is best. The Hellbringer is far superior to the Catphract 0x.

the fact that 2-3 E hardpoints negative value is greator then most IS T1 mechs possitive value OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR the highest non-jam or spread quirk positive quirk for clans.

Considering the fact that most non meta builds of the timberwolf (aka anything using a ballistic or a missile that isn't a gauss rifle) needed help... such as a UAC jam chance removal on the C... ER PPC velocity on the D, machine gun RoF on the prime.


Welp. More and more weeks go by the more and more disappointing I am with PGI... personally I think I am going to go leave for awhile at this rate. Not quit per say... but I do not want to play a game where 1 side is heavily superior to the under-supported side that continuously gets seal clubbed as it appears only the inner sphere can have superior technology in 3050...

DarthRevis, on 20 May 2015 - 11:22 PM, said:

So buy more then one Spider 5d or more then one D-DC....

You point is rather moot, you can run 4 spiders which is.....4 ECM mechs!?!?!

maths....they are hard.




what Competitive mechs did the nerf before tukayid though?

Thunderbolt 9S, it now replaces 2 whole warhawks instead of 4 and has more velocity then post quirked warhawk with the biggest targeting computer c-bills can buy.

[Dark DeLaurel]

Darwins Dog, on 20 May 2015 - 05:53 AM, said:

Your math is correct, but still wrong. Clans did 51% of the TOTAL friendly fire in Tuk. That's about a 5% increase over IS. It probably is due to the longer beam durations and burst fire ACs, at least in part, but it's a pretty small difference.

Who has more ECM is up to how you count it. IS has more options when it comes to the number of different weight classes and weight increments that can take it. They have more options for drop decks in CW and more opportunities for ECM in pug matches (since clans have no ECM assaults or mediums). On the other hand, clans have more options for what they can do with their existing ECM mechs thanks to the ability to swap out omni pods. IS just has to hope the variant with ECM also has good hardpoints.

Whoops my maths fail when I have been @ work for 12 hours.
The quality of the ECM mech is a totally different story, and probably more important than quantity. The IS do have more options for ECM, and you can't tell me other than the Hellbringer that the quality of the IS ECM is not better. The Clans end up giving up weapon slots for their ECM while all the IS `Mechs are able to keep their weapons.

Tarogato, on 20 May 2015 - 09:53 PM, said:

Clans do have more ECM.


IS Lights: 4 (but really just 2)
- Raven (viable)
- Spider (it's okay)
- Commando (it's weak)
- Locust (it's stupidly fragile)

Clan Lights: 3
- Cheetah (it will be amazeballs)
- Kitfox (it's not terrible)
- Mist Lynx (amazing asset in the right hands)

IS Mediums: 2
- Griffin (it's a brawler, useless in half of CW engagements, and ammo dependent)
- Cicada (it's starved for DPS)

Clan Mediums: 1
- Shadow Cat (this thing will be interesting to have around)

IS Heavies: 1
- Cataphract (it's really not a great mech for CW except for brawly maps, and it's somewhat ammo dependent)

Clan Heavies: 9,006
- Hellbringer (it's versatile, and a staple of many Clan drop decks, and it can laservomit)

IS Assaults: 1
- Atlas (100 tons, and slowwww. Ammo dependent, but it usually doesn't last that long on the field.)

Clan Assaults: 0

---

Don't know where you got five IS lights from, we only have four. Anyways, the problem is... the Clans have the Hellbringer. It can do everything, it's useful in almost every engagement, it has nice hardpoints and plenty of them, and it has the tonnage to use them. The Innersphere doesn't have anything like this. You usually have to poke and prod at Innersphere players to get one of them to bring an ECM mech to a drop. None of the IS mechs that have ECM are mechs that are both good in all engagements and can put out the DPS. The CTF suffers from low hardpoints and barntorsos, the Atlas is stuck as a slow brawler, the Locust and Commando are fragile brawler/strikers, the Griffin is a straight up brawler, the Cicada is meh, but probably the best choice among all of them as far as versatility goes because it can at least do ranged work. The Hellbringer you can just slap into your deck and forgot about though, because it's a workhorse.

If the CTF had the high mounted ballistic that it was supposed to have, it might actually be more useful. Slap a gauss in it and ridge peek.

The Arctic Cheetah and Shadow Cat are not in game yet, thus are not counted. They will also most likely have negative quirks attached to them.

This is how I came up with five light ECM IS `Mechs:
Locust Pirate's Bane
Commando 2D
Spider 5D
Raven 3L
Raven 3L (C)

You having an issue getting people to use an ECM `Mech isn't the issue and actually the point of me making this thread is more because of the quirks on the CTF-0XP there are no small starting points with it, it gets some pretty big ones out of the gate. Suffering from low hardpoints? Join the club with every Clan `Mech.

As to the D-DC being an ammo hog? I haven't had much of an issue with it in regular games (as I never played CW for the IS) and it is my second most used variant (the first being my Founders Atlas) before the Clans dropped and always packs dual UAC5's and twin ERLLas. Then again I have no issues forgoing some engine speed for ammo. It is also slightly faster and better torso turning than the Dire Wolf. I also had very little issues playing the range game with it because the ballistics torso was usually pretty weak and would critical a lot.

The Hellbringer sacrifices heatsinks or armor to make this great DPS builds so it is a hard `Mech to try and use if you want anything that can DPS so you either build it to tank or build it to DPS.

The Locust and Commando have borked hit reg on them which allows them to do quite well actually.The Griffin 2N I have not used as it came out after the Clan `Mechs, but from looking at it yes, it is better suited to brawling than anything.

My point of this thread is more because we are not seeing these small and incremental quirks that are talked about when trying to make the bad Clan `Mechs better so you don't always see Timber Wolf's and Stormcrows. It starts off with some good quirks that help it along quite nicely. Also how the IS is still crying bloody murder over the HBR because it is an ECM heavy and there was not one for the IS. Well here it is and all of a sudden "oh it's not good enough and not a super `Mech this is not game breaking enough for us".

[FlipOver]

DarthRevis, on 20 May 2015 - 11:22 PM, said:

So buy more then one Spider 5d or more then one D-DC....

You point is rather moot, you can run 4 spiders which is.....4 ECM mechs!?!?!

maths....they are hard.

Excuse me but with that logic, any side has more ECM mechs.
Sorry but that's just stupid.

The IS has at its disposal the following mechs with ECM:
1 Spider
2 Ravens (3L and 3L(C))
1 Commando
1 Locust
-----
1 Cicada
1 Griffin
-----
1 CTF
-----
1 Atlas
-----
Total 9

The Clans have at their disposal the following mechs:
3 - Kitfox
3 - Mist Lynx
-----
3 - Hellbringer
-----
Total 9

So as of right now, both IS and Clans have the same number of ECM mechs available at their disposal and people from Clans complain about the IS having too many?

And I'm not considering the mechs that will be introduced to the game, because for each mech in the Clan side there will be 3 times more ECM mechs available than for IS.

You Clanners whine so much about so many things I'm starting to think only the real players pilot IS.

Edited by FlipOver, 21 May 2015 - 12:36 AM.