54 replies to this topic

[Whatzituyah]

Title

P.S. Not letting it go

P.S.S. I think PGI just needs to try harder.

P.S.S.S. I just noticed that the site freaked out now theres 2 copies can I delete one without the other being deleted aswell?

Edited by Whatzituyah, 24 May 2015 - 07:13 AM.

[martian]

I think that PGI said that they would be too fast for the game engine, especially with MASC.

[Mahpsy]

martian, on 24 May 2015 - 07:12 AM, said:

I think that PGI said that they would be too fast for the game engine, especially with MASC.

Put them in without masc and quirks. BOOM! just like that they are viable.

[Whatzituyah]

martian, on 24 May 2015 - 07:12 AM, said:

I think that PGI said that they would be too fast for the game engine, especially with MASC.

https://forums.rober...f-current-model

I just read this thread in a different game thread some said that The speed limit in CryEngine is 500 m/s (1800 km/h).

[Alistair Winter]

Simply not enough money in it.

[Whatzituyah]

Alistair Winter, on 24 May 2015 - 07:27 AM, said:

Simply not enough money in it.

So not impossible they just don't want to do it.

[Ovion]

Past 172, the game and SR can't handle it.
It might break the game.
Therefore, currently, MASC can only be mounted on mechs with a greatest potential speed (including speed tweak) of roughly 129kph, to ensure it doesn't go over the 172kph cap.

Meaning any IS mech that's a Cicada or Lighter (apart from the Urbanmech) currently can not have MASC.

They've tried, but it's not something they've been able to overcome in this engine.

Cryengine might feasibly be able to cope with it, but the game system as a whole cannot.

Edited by Ovion, 24 May 2015 - 07:33 AM.

[Whatzituyah]

Ovion, on 24 May 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

Past 172, the game and SR can't handle it.
It might break the game.
Therefore, currently, MASC can only be mounted on mechs with a greatest potential speed (including speed tweak) of roughly 129kph, to ensure it doesn't go over the 172kph cap.

Meaning any IS mech that's a Cicada or Lighter (apart from the Urbanmech) currently can not have MASC.

They've tried, but it's not something they've been able to overcome in this engine.

Cryengine might feasibly be able to cope with it, but the game system as a whole cannot.

Those two I underlined confuse me sir as one contradicts the other in a way.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 24 May 2015 - 07:36 AM.

[Ovion]

Whatzituyah, on 24 May 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

Those two I underlined confuse me sir as one contradicts the other in a way.

I'm tired and words good me.

Basically, Cryengine, theoretically, can cope with X speed.
The engine in the game / game code / netcode / programming / HSR server / game as a whole, with the size, detail and parts of the models / maps, can only cope with 172KPH before you get severe issues with hitting things (both ways), rubber banding, or even just game crashes.

You could probably go to 175 I imagine with minimal breakage, allowing up to a potential 131.25kph for MASC, but 172 is probably where the engines end up sitting for the cap of 172.

Edited by Ovion, 24 May 2015 - 07:52 AM.

[Whatzituyah]

Ovion, on 24 May 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:

I'm tired and words good me.

Basically, Cryengine, theoretically, can cope with X speed.
The engine in the game / game code / netcode / programming / HSR server / game as a whole, with the size, detail and parts of the models / maps, can only cope with 172KPH before you get severe issues with hitting things (both ways), rubber banding, or even just game crashes.

You could probably go to 175 I imagine with minimal breakage, allowing up to a potential 131.25kph for MASC, but 172 is probably where the engines end up sitting for the cap of 172.

Well the flea feels like a broken promise to some people they even showed concept art.
http://www.mwomercs....tlemech-16-flea

Edited by Whatzituyah, 24 May 2015 - 08:00 AM.

[Scratx]

Been said multiple times already. Game can't cope with it at the moment without rubber banding, broken HSR, etc. It's not theoretically impossible to get the limit raised but it requires time and money to raise it.

What for, exactly? The Fire Moth is DOA aside from its speed, pretty much, and it doesn't even need MASC to utterly break the game. There's no chance in hell we'll see it. The Flea... uh, what does it do a Locust can't do?

I know the Flea looks nice but really, what does it bring to the table?

Seriously unlikely to ever show up in game.

[Ovion]

Yes, but when they tried, at the time, it flat out broke the game.
It scared them and they abandoned it.

And being the Flea is the 'replacement' for the Locust (to sidestep the Unseen), being we got the Locust, they don't feel we need the not-Locust either.

There's arguments for the Flea, such as it's temporarily slightly faster, consistently slightly slower, with a heavier load out for it,
But at the end of the day, it's really +3 Locust 3M/1E/3V (1 variant with 5E, 1 variant with 4E, 1 variant with 3E, 2B) capped at 150kph (with MASC bonus, but if introduced without it, then it's always that slow)

Maybe one day, but for now, it's simply not happening.


- I wasn't going to bother, but maybe I'll get one in TT just to say I do.

Edited by Ovion, 24 May 2015 - 08:10 AM.

[FupDup]

Besides HSR, they're just bad mechs in general. 20 tons is the worst place to be for a Battlemech/Omnimech.

Why don't we ask for lights that will be good instead? Mechs that won't just fade into obscurity a month or two after their initial release?

[Whatzituyah]

FupDup, on 24 May 2015 - 08:24 AM, said:

Besides HSR, they're just bad mechs in general. 20 tons is the worst place to be for a Battlemech/Omnimech.

Why don't we ask for lights that will be good instead? Mechs that won't just fade into obscurity a month or two after their initial release?

I still use a Locust and a Urban Mech.

[Mcgral18]

FupDup, on 24 May 2015 - 08:24 AM, said:

Besides HSR, they're just bad mechs in general. 20 tons is the worst place to be for a Battlemech/Omnimech.

Why don't we ask for lights that will be good instead? Mechs that won't just fade into obscurity a month or two after their initial release?

If they get adequate structure buffs (like the Lolcust) they could be better than the Myth Lynx.


200 engine means ~178 Kph, plus MASC (which would break the game) while also bringing either 4 E hardpoints+Jesus Box, or 6 E hardpoints.

Removing MASC it goes from 5 tons of pod space to 6...so, the Myth Lynx again.

[Wrathful Scythe]

If the enginge breaks with speeds of 172 and upwards then just build a limit and don't let them reach higher speeds. This can't possibly be a problem. I mean, the Urban is pretty darn fast for an friggin Urban so adjusting speeds to make something like that possible is not outer the question.

The Firemoth is not a must but the Flea should at least see the light of day. Just to please those who had high hopes. I mean, we all know it will still sell like hot cakes with a smart marketing idea on the frontpage.

[FupDup]

Whatzituyah, on 24 May 2015 - 08:30 AM, said:

I still use a Locust and a Urban Mech.

Urbanmech is 30 tons, which is better than 20 tons with all other things being equal.

The Lolcust is mostly a "hardmode" mech for people who want to brag about getting kills while they have their hand tied behind their back.

[Sjorpha]

FupDup, on 24 May 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

The Lolcust is mostly a "hardmode" mech for people who want to brag about getting kills while they have their hand tied behind their back.

I would argue that this is no longer true, the 1E and Pirate's bane are genuinely good lights now since they got their great quirks.

The rest of them are still a challenge yeah.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

FupDup, on 24 May 2015 - 08:24 AM, said:

Besides HSR, they're just bad mechs in general. 20 tons is the worst place to be for a Battlemech/Omnimech.

Why don't we ask for lights that will be good instead? Mechs that won't just fade into obscurity a month or two after their initial release?

Because 20 ton mechs are already in the game, so they need to be playable. That being said, I see no shortage of locusts running around.

The second problem is PGI pricing, mech costs are based on tonnage, which means light mechs, which cost as much to develop as assaults, but only produce 1/4 of the revenue for the company. PGI is able to circumvent this with pre-release package sales, but MC costs are dramatically lower. Which of course encourages PGI to make heavier mechs more appealing for their higher price point (a concept that completely undermines role-warefare).

Edited by Agent 0 Fortune, 24 May 2015 - 08:57 AM.

[1453 R]

Russ has stated that the Flea is dead to him. With the Locust already in the game, there's no niche for the Flea to fulfill - the Locust already hits the game's effective speed cap without M.A.S.C., and there are multiple 20t laserboat Locust variants. Also the Locust is a much more classic/significant 'Mech than the Flea and represents a triumph of Piranha in getting some of the Reseens back into the game for the first time in forever.

The MWO team is just not excited about the Flea anymore - if not for the concept art announcement back in the day nobody in the forums would even remember the Flea existed. The majority of the forum userbase doesn't give a crap about the thing, and the non-forumite playerbase, once again, doesn't even know it exists.

If we get another twenty-tonner, it'd be better for it to be a jumping model, as the Locust handles pretty much all weapon categories across its various variants and as stated it already hits the speed cap without M.A.S.C. What point would there be in introducing the Flea?