24 replies to this topic

[TLxB]

Normally when a match starts,i go in front scouting with my Locust. Well,after scan the area i notice from where the enemy coming,so i inform and turn back to the team group...but...its an hard task. One king crab alone,two stormcrows in both sides of the map,the heavyes spread in the middle of the map. Only and...ONLY when we get the first kill,the friendly team regroup...but half. The king crab stay near a ladder doing nothing,one startcrow gets killed by a enemy light,or medium dunno remember. My team starts to lose mates. I have one arm critically injured because i go like rambo,because my team stuck. When we have 7 dies,i go in a clear area back to a kit fox injured. Two shoots of 2 srm 4 and he die. And thats all. Im the only one in the match that did a kill. There are Dire Wolfes,King Crabs,including an Atlas,and a simple Locust get the only one kill. Maybe its a critizism,but a Locust,a simple Locust get the only one kill in the match is for laugh. And that is not the end. Im the last man standing,in the middle of a plains between mad cats,panthers and summoners. Yeah i die like a rat. But u have comprension that im a light and i cannot do a lot of damage,well,maybe a noob light pilot.

So,in the end,pugs are sometimes unbalanced caused there are pilots that doesnt do his work. The example: the lone King Crab that doesnt do nothing back a ladder.

And that is the:

History of my last pug.

Sorry for relating this,but im annyoned of how much noobs are in pugs. Hopefully when my stats are decent i go with the cream of the cream. But for now,i need to face half pugs with noobs. Guys,this game have 2 years on since released from beta.

Edited by TLxB, 24 May 2015 - 11:04 PM.

[Threndor]

Well, as a newb myself (I've now done two matches), I can understand some of your plight from the other side. I try to stay with the group, try to hit targets, Then the fun starts (get stuck on terrain, get circle-strafed). I know it will take some time to learn the ins-and-outs though, hope I don't upset you too much in the mean time, but I will say I won't be standing still (unless I am stuck...).

[Gagis]

This is the problem with the Elo system. New players get stuck with bad examples and people are not really given good examples either.

[xDust]

I made an alt account after a while to try out the King Crab. Experienced within a few days the difference between low and average ELO. It's easier to notice with the names of players you see over and over again.

I made it through low-tier back to my average-tier, and I can tell you that it doesn't stop. Sure players are less liable to do individually stupid things, but overall, I end up cursing my team at least every four matches for doing insanely stupid things in a strategic term. Or just getting facerolled.

Edited by xDust, 25 May 2015 - 04:37 AM.

[Spike Brave]

It's a Pick Up Group. That means anyone can play. If you don't like playing with new players, join a group. I would suggest the Praetorian Legion. I know a couple of guys there, Rogue Jedi and Ayrmoon, and have played against them in CW. Nice guys and they're pretty good.

The solo queue is the place to go to learn. If you see someone having problems, offer some advice and try to help them.

[Kyynele]

Stomps happen at all skill levels.

However, lights aren't incapable of dealing lots of damage. If you can't deal a lot of damage in a light, and play a light, it means your team of 12 has 1 player that doesn't do much damage. If the opposing team has 12 players who do a lot of damage, you yourself may have put your team at a disadvantage. Playing a light isn't an excuse to demand being carried.

I don't want to be mean or impolite, but often it's best to look in the mirror before declaring that everyone else are "noobs."

[JC Daxion]

Kyynele, on 25 May 2015 - 05:58 PM, said:

Stomps happen at all skill levels.

However, lights aren't incapable of dealing lots of damage.

I'd beg to differ.. I see lights getting 400+ all the time, and 600-800 is not unheard of. A good light pilot can pull their own weight, and carry teams. It is no different than any other weight class, except the damage is more about DPS than alpha's.

I do agree stomps happen, But even at higher ELO's you still get tossed in with new players, it is the nature of the PUG/ELO system

Edited by JC Daxion, 25 May 2015 - 06:56 PM.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

nice story, but hey, all started as PUG. theyll get better.

Some pug games are even, and hard fight which ends 12-11,12-10, while 1 minute remaining, some are faceroll 12-0 (yesterday i have that 2 times).
I also had a game which we were loosing whole time (conquest), while we turn around 2 mins remaining, and won 750-731, or other game, when, we won by 2 seconds remaining last kill.

Pug games are very well balanced (95%).
Unfortunatelly, not the CW.

[mailin]

Playing pugs really is a lottery. At lower levels it's very hard to get a team on the same page. Which is why, whenever possible I use comms. Unfortunately, I can't all the time. I do notice though that when I do, overall things go better for my team.

Which is why, when I die I'm still communicating to my team, even if it's only in text chat.

[Rogue Jedi]

Kyynele, on 25 May 2015 - 05:58 PM, said:

Stomps happen at all skill levels.

However, lights aren't incapable of dealing lots of damage. If you can't deal a lot of damage in a light, and play a light, it means your team of 12 has 1 player that doesn't do much damage. If the opposing team has 12 players who do a lot of damage, you yourself may have put your team at a disadvantage. Playing a light isn't an excuse to demand being carried.

I don't want to be mean or impolite, but often it's best to look in the mirror before declaring that everyone else are "noobs."

weather or not we are in agreement depends on what you mean by "lots of damage", an oft repeated "rule" on these forums is that 5 times your weight in damage is a good game, 10 times is an excellent game

usualy in a Spider 5D I will deal 150-300 damage, very occasionally I will end up in a bad position and deal less than 50 damage, but I have also had excellent games and dealt 500+ with 3+ kills, I have also effectively won the match by distracting the enemy heavy hitters while the team closed and opened them up from behind, or encouraged a rush when reporting or demonstrating the enemy were separated, in which case I can prove instrumental in securing a win with little or no damage.

no Mech can do excellent damage every game, however heavies and assaults are far more capable of doing damage and getting kills consistently than most lights.

if you think that a Locust, Commando, Mist Lynx or Spider should be getting 300 damage and 2+ kills every match then you are not being realistic, the only way a pilot could get to the point where he/she was always getting 300+ in one of those would be to heavily specialize in them with hundreds of hours spent is a specific load out, and to know the maps very well.

in theory the most lightly armed Mech in the game (SDR-5V) can deal about 1400 damage per match if it found the enemy within 30 seconds and fired its 2 MPL as fast as heat allows at enemies for the remaining 14.5 minutes, always hitting with the maximum beam duration.
it would take a Dire Wolf less than 2 and a half minutes to deal similar damage, this means that 300 damage in a Locust, Commando or Spider requires at least as much skill as 1,000 damage in a Dire Wolf

[Kyynele]

JC Daxion, on 25 May 2015 - 06:55 PM, said:

I'd beg to differ.. I see lights getting 400+ all the time, and 600-800 is not unheard of. A good light pilot can pull their own weight, and carry teams. It is no different than any other weight class, except the damage is more about DPS than alpha's.

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. Maybe I worded myself poorly, I did try to say that lights can and should deal significant damage in matches. Apologies, english isn't my first language.

Rogue Jedi, on 26 May 2015 - 02:59 AM, said:

if you think that a Locust, Commando, Mist Lynx or Spider should be getting 300 damage and 2+ kills every match then you are not being realistic, the only way a pilot could get to the point where he/she was always getting 300+ in one of those would be to heavily specialize in them with hundreds of hours spent is a specific load out, and to know the maps very well.

Lights die easily, so of course getting 300 damage every single match might be unrealistic. However, it's not that hard to average that much, which of course demands matches with higher damages than that to make up for the ones where you got an AC20 round in the back ST before reaching 50. For kills, bigger mechs with much more alpha firepower are more likely to get more of those, which is why I didn't mention them at all. Lights are often lower priority targets however, and often get to clean up damaged mechs from the battleground.

Just for the sake of discussion, out of the lights I've played more than a couple matches, average damage per match:
Jenner F: 369
Oxide: 482
Raven 3L: 393
Huginn: 355 (pre-quirks)
Spider 5D: 481
Locust 1V: 301
Locust 1E: 342
Firestarter A: 381
Ember: 407
Kit Fox, all: 375
Adder, all: 371

I know I'm not the greatest light pilot there is. And I'm fine with that.

I also know, I steer clear from the absolute rubbish variants, because I don't want to handicap my team. Because I prefer to win. Bringing a mech that isn't good, isn't better than bringing a mech that you're not very good at piloting. If you don't do your part to get your team that win, you're more likely to lose.

Anyway, the only reason why I originally replied in the thread was because complaining about everyone in your team being bad is a waste of everyone's time, the only thing you can truly do is try to see what you did badly and become a better player yourself. That's the way you improve, that's the way you get to the point where you can carry matches. And one of those ways is to bring mechs that you do deal much damage in (for their weight.)

[Luscious Dan]

As a casual player, PUGs are what I'm stuck with so I know all too well how a bad team can ruin your entire gaming session. It's frustrating as hell sometimes, especially when you get those lovely people who randomly spray lasers and AC rounds at the very beginning of the match, often tagging friendlies in the rear armor (took a gauss round to the rear CT of my assault mech as soon as a match started the other day... that got my blood boiling).

Try to be nice before the game starts, tell them what role your mech can do and suggest a strategy. They won't always listen, but you often get better results when you're being helpful instead of rude. Sometimes you'll be amazed at what comes together, but the games where not a single person talks or uses the chat box are usually pretty problematic. And who knows what would have happened if someone broke the ice.

Another more cynical idea is to take a mech that can carry a match if you must. Hard to do in a Locust, but can be done in a King Crab or something capable of massive damage output.

My Huggin can sometimes do it, with the sheer chaos it can cause when it gets behind a disorganized heavy/assault lance. Dropped 3x assaults and a Mad Dog in a single PUG skirmish the other day, which helped tip the scales. Once my ammo ran dry I was able to scout and distract the enemy, even blocking the final light in tight terrain so the slower teammates could catch him. One of my better matches in recent memory.

Edited by Luscious Dan, 26 May 2015 - 09:06 AM.

[JC Daxion]

Kyynele, on 26 May 2015 - 04:27 AM, said:

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. Maybe I worded myself poorly, I did try to say that lights can and should deal significant damage in matches. Apologies, english isn't my first language.

Aye,, i re-read it, and see, where i missed the part about you saying teams don't need to carry you.. no worries..


But as for your stats on lights, i would call those darn good. I am curious, how many drops you are talking about? are they all mastered? My lights average about 250, mediums around 350, and assaults/heavies my best are around 450, basic average mind you.. I also play pretty much pugs only, so those team rolls defiantly hurt averages

I also think my obsession with the continuous grind has a bit to do with it. Often i just play a mech to master, then work on another mech.. only a handful of my mechs i actually have played 100's of games at master.

another thing with me, is i tend to play a bit more aggressive, to get the ball rolling so to speak. Often i feel like my attacks/push got things moving and i will die around mid match, and then watch the roll finish. Some times some of my best light matches are all about keeping 2-3 mechs shooting at me, while my teammates roll um from behind.

Luscious Dan, on 26 May 2015 - 09:02 AM, said:

As a casual player, PUGs are what I'm stuck with so I know all too well how a bad team can ruin your entire gaming session. It's frustrating as hell sometimes, especially when you get those lovely people who randomly spray lasers and AC rounds at the very beginning of the match, often tagging friendlies in the rear armor (took a gauss round to the rear CT of my assault mech as soon as a match started the other day... that got my blood boiling).

this one pisses me off to no end.. and it is not even just the start, often people keep firing as they walk the first 500m.. so as a fast mech you can take shots just trying to go out and scout.. these days, i just sit for 20 secs at the start of the match and follow everyone.. Or in a light, i will run in the total opposite direction and scout and rejoin when everyone is done screwing around.

Edited by JC Daxion, 26 May 2015 - 05:43 PM.

[mailin]

I can't tell you the number of times I've taken friendly fire because I am chasing a light and some yahoo in a hunchback or brawler cent decides to get in one more alpha on the enemy light.

[Soulscour]

mailin, on 26 May 2015 - 06:41 PM, said:

I can't tell you the number of times I've taken friendly fire because I am chasing a light and some yahoo in a hunchback or brawler cent decides to get in one more alpha on the enemy light.

oops

[Dread Paladin Esparza]

As far as the damage per weight class part of this convo, i love my king crab and often get 2 or 3 kills in it a match but i never seem to do more that 450 damage on a high damage game. often my damage is closer too 200 or so. i am still killing mechs but it seems using just the amount of damage I am doing is a lot lower than what people expect from an assault.

[mailin]

I remember someone saying 100 damage per weight class was a good average. Even at that, 200 for an assault is kind of low. However, if you do that and are getting 2 kills and your team gets the rest, then it's not so bad.

[InspectorG]

mailin, on 26 May 2015 - 08:23 PM, said:

I remember someone saying 100 damage per weight class was a good average. Even at that, 200 for an assault is kind of low. However, if you do that and are getting 2 kills and your team gets the rest, then it's not so bad.

Last i heard:

150 for a Locust/Commando

300+ for a light

500 for a medium or heavier.

Pug drops, i really dont team drop enough to tell you but i bet the numbers would be lower perhaps due to better aim/focused fire.

[Rogue Jedi]

InspectorG, on 27 May 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

Last i heard:

150 for a Locust/Commando

300+ for a light

500 for a medium or heavier.

Pug drops, i really dont team drop enough to tell you but i bet the numbers would be lower perhaps due to better aim/focused fire.

in the group queue if I am playing with a group on comms then I would expect most players to deal between 200 and 500 damage, that means everyone is contributing and no-one is carrying the match, that would be the ideal.
In solo queue you will usualy get a much wider damage spread, with the top scorer often getting 800+ damage and multiple kills and a few players at less than 100 damage.

[Kyynele]

JC Daxion, on 26 May 2015 - 05:39 PM, said:

I am curious, how many drops you are talking about? are they all mastered?

I've mostly played the Locusts and Clan Lights, with Locust 1V having 200+ matches (thanks to the recent tournament), the Clan lights 100+ matches each chassis, and Locust 1E sitting at about 100 matches. The rest have only something like 20-70 matches in them. And the Spider 5D only has 6 matches, so it shouldn't even be listed there, as I was obviously just really lucky in those first games, and it's bound to come down. I was just personally surprised by that number, so I had to include it.

Yes, all mastered, most old lights mastered before stat reset, so no leveling games dragging those numbers down. I typically play mediums and heavies in group queue, so these are mostly solo.