36 replies to this topic

[Festus vanGeck]

So I bought this thing in order to elite my 4P and 4G. Which I did. And it was a complete pain in the butt, since the most damage I did in all those fights was something about 150. I just can't seem to figure out how to use it.

The playstyle from 4G and 4P (pop slightly out of cover, inflict suffering, relocate) doesn't really work, since the 4SP has much shorter effective range and the enemy tends to shoot back much harder. That, and your armament is spread all over the place, so you can't just expose a little part of your mech.

It's supposed to be a brawler (or so I've read), so I tried running circles around people, flanking and other stuff, but I just get blown up very quickly, especially since people at my skill level just sit in huge blobs of mechs. So I either use the MLs to ping people and run away (in which case I don't do any real damage) or try to pick off damaged enemies by smacking them with the SRM6's (in which case I get blown up by their friends).

I really have no idea how to play a brawler, having played skirmishers all the time. I'd sell it, but my lack of competence annoys me much more than the mech itself. I run a STD250 + 2xART+SRM6 + 4ML build.

[bossclan]

The best way to run that mech is to use your enemies tactics "huge blob of mechs" and get stuck in with those srm6s that are quirked for rapid fire and those MLs that are short dur "even shorter than MPLs" .
The trick is to not overheat and i do hope you have dual HS on that 4sp.
Use the agility of the hunchy to spread damage around so you don't die as fast and can get in range for those brawls.

[WonderSparks]

4SP? Well, I know what I did, but I can almost guarantee nobody will agree with my choices...

"Spooky", as I call it (for no reason other than the "SP" in its name), carries twin LRMA10 with a few tons of ammo, plus four Small Lasers and one Medium, and an AMS and BAP. It also runs an XL 275 because I got tired of being a sluggish little archer.

Although my match results were never terribly awesome (as always, not a competitive player so not a priority of mine) I had a blast once I finally optimized the 'Mech.
Of course, I have other 'Mechs that do a similar job better, like my AWS-8R, but hey, it was in the name of mastering GI Joe the Grid Iron.

EDIT: Regarding how I piloted it (to be more on topic), simply get in with the blob, toss LRM's at whatever is in reach, and be ready to throw lasers all over the place when someone breaches the blob.
You may not have the most brawling firepower out there, but it can generally run cool enough to keep it up for a while without generating so much heat so fast you cannot stop it from overheating in a pinch.

Obviously, as a Hunchback with an XL engine, caution is advisable. And probably staying with the group as opposed to running off on your own giggling like an idiot the entire way (read: doing exactly what Sparky always does)

Edited by WonderSparks, 25 May 2015 - 12:21 PM.

[Anunknownlurker]

I bought it, levelled it, sold it. It was not the mech for me. The only way I had any fun in it was to stand next to something fat and just hit anything that came close to them. I use the word "fun" advisedly!

I still use my mastered HBK-4H and 4G regularly and half way to mastering the 4P, so it's not Hunchbacks that are the problem.

Never been so happy to get rid of a mech...oh, hold on, I forgot about the RVN-4X, hated that as well

So, sorry, I can't really help you but I did want you to know that you aren't alone.

[TercieI]

Frankly, you do it two years ago. When I leveled HBKs about a year ago, it was already outclassed by a number of mechs in the same role.

[ProfessorD]

Your build looks fine, so that isn't the issue. If you're interested to optimize, I recommend using the maximum engine like this, but the difference isn't critical.

You described the proper playstyle for the 4G and 4P correctly, too.

You're probably going to find that the 4SP is overall just less useful than the 4G and 4P in general queue matches. The 4G and 4P can be used to create firing opportunities that you just can't create with the 4SP. With the 4SP, you need to employ lots of patience in the opening of a match and avoid exposure. The 4SP really shines best if you can get an assault brawler or two to push hard. You follow them and clean up their targets. This approach shouldn't ever involve any circling; if you find yourself needing to circle back to a target, you and your assault buddy already failed to get the kill fast enough and are probably going to go down in a blaze of glory soon if you don't bug out and find another assault buddy that is securing kills faster.


The 4SP is actually quite good in private 1v1 matches. Its quirks really shine in that setting in a way that they just won't in most pug matches, where your assaults never push and you never have a buddy to follow into battle in the first place.

[Jman5]

WonderSparks, on 25 May 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

4SP? Well, I know what I did, but I can almost guarantee nobody will agree with my choices...

"Spooky", as I call it (for no reason other than the "SP" in its name), carries twin LRMA10 with a few tons of ammo, plus four Small Lasers and one Medium, and an AMS and BAP. It also runs an XL 275 because I got tired of being a sluggish little archer.

Although my match results were never terribly awesome (as always, not a competitive player so not a priority of mine) I had a blast once I finally optimized the 'Mech.
Of course, I have other 'Mechs that do a similar job better, like my AWS-8R, but hey, it was in the name of mastering GI Joe the Grid Iron.

If you're going to run LRMs on a hunchback run the 4J. It does everything you described, but much much better because of the quirks. For example you would get 50% lrm 10 cooldown on the 4J, but only 20% on the 4SP. 4J also has better quirks for small lasers than the 4SP.

OP, I hate to tell you, but the 4SP is just really hard to run in the current environment. There is just so much damage flying around that it's difficult to brawl on most maps. My only advice is to try to front load your armor more. Put very little on your back and nearly everything on your front. 9/10 of your deaths will come from the front, so you might as well prolong those deaths instead of hedging.

Edited by Jman5, 26 May 2015 - 08:12 PM.

[Shalune]

The SP wants to play like many fragile heavy hitters.

You should be shadowing your team's blob, and ideally a specific close range assault mech. Stay directly behind them as long as possible (though always be mindful not to block them from backing up). Once your assault and blob rounds a corner and commits to a brawl, you follow them in. Give it a few seconds to make sure both teams are fully engaged and there aren't enemies waiting on a flank for your team to come farther forward.

Then you charge. At this point, both teams have picked their targets. A new hunchback appearing is not going to draw fire away from your friendly assaults. You dash out in a small flank around your team, and now around the enemy. Make sure you are hitting them in the side or rear so that engaging you is more risky than it's worth (they will put their back to your assaults). But also make sure you don't go too far. If you get singled out by faster mechs you need to be able to quickly retreat back into your own lines.

YOU WILL DIE A LOT

This is just a fact. Get used to it when playing a role like this. Even when it's played correctly, it's very risky and relies on the enemy team to play correctly, which they often won't. It makes no sense for someone to switch targets, turn their back on an assault, and chase a medium... but some will.

You still helped your team though.

This is something people of all roles need to grasp. Your own mech's life is meaningless. If you're in a Jenner that dies doing 38 damage, but half their heavies chased you away from the front lines? You probably just won your team the game. Same principle applies here. More often than not you will scare the enemy team into making mistakes rather than securing the kills yourself.

Preservation is still important of course, but it's a mindset you need to get into to be successful with a mech like the SP. Hope this gives you a better idea of how to pilot her.

[JC Daxion]

In clan wars, the ranged meta is kinda where it's at, though i have found at the right point droping in a brawler can really turn the tides. That said the 4SP, really needs to use it's speed, cover, and twisting to make it work well. Use cover, use enemy mechs as cover as long as they can't shoot you.. Often they will blast their buddy if you do it right.

get behind mechs, shoot from the sinks, flank and re-position often. Disengage and re-engage. Since the armor buff on um i find um pretty tough little mechs. The main issue i have with the 4SP is it runs hot. So i drop to 4 medium lasers, and run dual SRM4's, I used the extra space for a bit more ammo and extra heat sinks.. though i guess you could boost the engine to a std275.

another thing you could try is go XL-275, harder to run, but it can work.. though when i do this i run dual Large lasers, and dual SRM6's. lasers for ranged, and just dish out tons of SRM's up close. It might not be the brawler it once was like say the cent-AH, but that one is limited on ammo, and the 4SP can dish as long as you still have lasers.

Just practice, battle field awareness and learning the ropes of brawling is all ya need. The mech is solid.

[Void Angel]

If you're fighting the Clans as Inner Sphere, most successful engagements involve close range. However, in the mixed-tech PuG environment, many players have adopted a camp-and-hide mentality that looks a lot like they're trying to cower the enemy to death. In this instance, you play Hunchbuddy to your main group of happy campers: stay out of sight, don't block their rear movement (for when they get hit with a Medium Laser,) and wait a lot. When one side or the other starts moving in, you move along with bigger 'mechs and punish people for ignoring you. You don't want to be in combat long, and ideally you are never seen by an enemy unless they've seen your bigger, scarier friend first.

This is hard to do with a PuG group sometimes, and it's doubly hard with the SP, because the SP wants to come out of cover to use those SRMs effectively. Since you don't have the concentrated firepower of the other variants' hunch, it's difficult to get the SP to really perform well (mine used to be a favorite 'mech, but no longer) in the current meta - but if you play it like I've described, you should be able to skill it out effectively, at least.

[Kiiyor]

In days of yore, the 4SP was considered a premier mech, and one of the absolute best for newbies to start in. It was one of my favorites. Now, thanks to pinpoint damage and staggering alpha strikes, it's a very, very difficult beast to do well in.

The problems you have encountered are those systemic to that particular variant; it's a brawling mech, but if you brawl, you die. It has all the weaknesses of the Hunchies, sans the (giant protruding hump) and none of the high mounted benefits.

You don't have the armour to trade with anything, and you don't have the firepower to inflict meaningful damage before you're doomed, even with a 40% SRM6 cooldown reduction. You have more firepower than a Huggin, but about 1/10th the durability. You can get good speed out of it if you make some sacrifices, but IMHO, one of the biggest problems with it is it's quirks, because that increased SRM ROF really pushes your heat through the roof in any sort of sustained engagement.

So, is there any hope? Well... i've found some small measure of success with a tactic that is anathema to most PUG groups; patience.

I know, I know, the whole point of giant robots is to STOMP AND SHOOT AND DAKKA AND KILL KILL KILL OMG GET OUT OF MY WAY KILL KILL, but your mech is a delicate little flower compared to the average over-gunned testosterone fueled MadCat prancing around the battlefield.

Don't buy in to the early match poking shenanigans. If you want to throw out decent laser damage, you need to expose every single pixel of your mech to do it. If you want to side peek, you have to expose your arm and head to throw out 3 MLAS, but pretty much every mech in the game can out-trade that.

Your job is to lurk, and wait. You aren't actively looking for a fight, you're waiting for it to come to you.

Keep an eye on the light mechs, and try to roam around in places where you can back them up if they are being chased - because everyone likes chasing a light into stupid places. SRM12 to the face will usually discourage pursuit. Don't engage though.

Instead, you need to wait for that pivotal moment where battle shifts from cowering behind rocks, to actual moving. This is where you shine. When this happens, and things start getting chaotic, mash the W key, never decelerate, and shoot at everything. Don't stop to brawl, just charge. Weave through buildings, go for backs when possible, and try to get at least one SRM salvo into everything you see. Save your lasers for pinpoint damage - because while those 6 packs suck at removing armour (even with Artemis) they are AMAZING at finishing off wounded mechs - and at the middle to late stages of a fight, most enemies will have less armour than you, unless you're being steamrolled (in which case there isn't much difference between your 4SP and a DireWolf as far as battlefield contribution).

Yikes... i've written a thesis.

TL,DR; The trouble with PUGS, is that everyone thinks they have to be shooting as soon as they possibly can. In a 4SP, this is a mistake. LURK instead, and profit when your enemies are weak.

[YueFei]

The HBK-4SP is the mech I drive more than anything else, by far.

You can't easily create opportunities. You really need a teammate who can swing wide around corners with long range weapons, hit the enemy, and give you a momentary lane to run through on the inside. Or as others have said, an Assault mech willing to push to give you the chance to get stuck in.

If you can get in there, get close to the enemy mech your team is focusing on and use him to block off angles from other enemy mechs if you can.

Remember your burst damage is scary, up to 150 damage in 5 seconds, but you are kind of a squishy robot, so don't lead charges in it.

Close-range fire support is what you are.

Having said that, don't be scared to take a hit or two to help create opportunities for your teammates as well. There's +24 hitpoints on each shoulder, use them to take an extra hit or two. You just can't run into the enemy team to do that. You gotta push out sideways/diagonally, squeeze off your salvo, and then duck back into cover.

[Nightshade24]

play it like how most people play griffins but do it properly.

[Chuck Jager]

I stunk with mine when I got the mastery pack 4months ago. After joining a unit and doing a lot of mid-high level group que, I have finally learned the battlefield awareness to of when to close a gap and deliver damage and when not to. I got back on this mech and now it is about 400-600 average per good match and a couple of hundred in a wipe. I also have the range mod for lasers, cool down for srm6s, seismic (a must have) and derp. Also if you see more than one closing in on you and your team is down by 4 or more hit over ride, because your cool down is so fast on srm6s you can get 2 more volleys before kaboom.

[Festus vanGeck]

Thanks for your replies, guys. I tried piloting the 4SP a bit more yesterday night and finally decided to leave it be, at least until I get someone to play with or get into higher ranked matches. When it comes to close-ranged engagements on my skill level, either half of my team is dead (and I can't do anything by then) or half of their team is dead and we're mopping them up (which I can do in a 4P just as well, plus I can help dish out the damage early game).

Edited by Festus vanGeck, 26 May 2015 - 12:46 AM.

[Flak Kannon]

Hi Festus,

My personal goto with the 4SP is:

STD 275
(2) SRM6
(5) Medium Lasers
13 Heatsinks
300 Rounds SRM ammo
322/338 armor. Remove the 16 points from where you like.

This mech has amazing combat duarbility. Its SRM 12; chest mounted, allows it to lose both arms and still drop a 30 point alpha.

Make sure to use hit and run tactics, leverage it's speed, and its durability, but never forget your only a 50 ton mech.. don't get to bold.

I have many, many 700+ damage rounds in this one, it is one of my favoite mechs.

Ps.. it can run hot if your trigger control is spastic! Chain fire works wonders on this mech.

[YueFei]

Also, brawling doesn't mean you have to run circles around your target, which often just lands you into even bigger trouble as you extend yourself further into the enemy team and give more and more enemy mechs a chance to blast you.

Running even just 1 circle around your target takes like 6 seconds in a max-engine Hunchback. That's a dangerously long time to give his buddies a chance to line up shots on you.

I mean, if one of your buddies grabbed aggro already and no one is aiming at you yet? You can get away with 6 seconds of exposure while you unload. But if you're the one with the aggro you wanna GTFO.

[PeeWrinkle]

Hopefully this post will not be too repetitive. I have had the 4SP for quite some time now and I always played it as a brawler (even before quirks).

The hardest thing for me about the mech was managing the heat. That became a little easier after quirks, and a little harder too since the weapons (SRM6 and MLs) all cooldown much faster especially with modules. Yep, that was contradictory.

I ran the mech one of two ways, both actually had the exact same weapons load out.

HBK-4SP-1: Faster, Hotter and More Expensive. If you like to move and can manage your heat, this is the one to go with.
HBK-4SP-2: A bit slower and cooler. I like this one a bit more now because it helps manage the heat since the recycle rate of my weapons is now quicker.

One thing you will notice is I don't use the 5th Medium Laser in the Head Hard Point. Heat is just unmanageable for me when I do and the zombie factor with 1 ML is not really worth it to me.

I map the L.Arm MLs to Fire Group 1, R.Arm MLs to Fire Group 2, and the SRM6's to Fire Group 3

I use cooldown modules for the SRM6 and MLs. I tried range modules and didn't like them as much as being able to fire faster. Plus when going against clans they will always have you out ranged.

The way I played the mech was to stay in cover with heavies and assaults. And stay clear of any combat until the brawl starts. Never poke at range, you will just get eaten up. That said once the enemy is with in 400m you can start using those MLs. I use the MLs exclusively between 200-400m, then when within 200m I hammer with the SRM6s. I will occasionally use one of the ML fire groups with the SRMs when in close range. Just let heat be your guide here. One thing that I found is I could keep up a constant rate of fire for a while doing that. In pug matches that is good because usually the other pilot will break and try to run if you are able to fire continuously.

Hope that helps

[WonderSparks]

Jman5, on 25 May 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

If you're going to run LRMs on a hunchback run the 4J. It does everything you described, but much much better because of the quirks. For example you would get 50% lrm 10 cooldown on the 4J, but only 20% on the 4SP. 4J also has better quirks for small lasers than the 4SP.

I am not about to buy a brand-new Hunchback to do the job Spooky does already! That would just be insane.

Besides, I am not in it for the quirks, I am in it for the balance! (As in, right side is equally strong compared to the left side) Quirks are just "there", they have little to no influence on what I put on a 'Mech or how I use it.
Because, and I have said this a hundred times before and i will say it again, I play to have fun, not to be competitive.

[VaudeVillain]

I go with a build similar to PeeWrinkle's HBK-4P-2, but I skip the Artemis IV and add in 2 more Heat Sinks. The missile spread isn't as bad as some other 'Mechs and a lot of people tend to run ECM, thus countering it anyway, so I would rather have the extra heat dissipation. With the SP, concentrate fire on the left or right torso and if possible, the back. A 4SP with good heat dissipation can kill a 100 ton 'Mech before it kills them, but they will come out almost dead. With the 2 extra double heat sinks, the DPS jumps to 5.09.