78 replies to this topic

[speleomaniac]

Ok, during this event, I played my first 3 CW games.

I was complete noob to CW, I was afraid that I would let my team down.

So first match, I am on IS defense we matched against 12 men Clan premade, well I said when **** is enevitable, at least enjoy it. From kill points of view match was quite balanced, until I figured out what the premade is doing.

They were breaking our initial defense and reaching to the generator and they were not caring about the losses against freshly spawned mechs and just sitting around the generator and killing those. At the end we felt good about ourselve because of the kill numbers but they were just farming the generators. There was no real game.

So I think the turrets around the outer doors are just jokes, those are no better then target dummies. Just take them off and put them around the generators.

So after 3 games when I look to my stats, which I was sure I will suck because of noobiness to CW, so in 3 games always around 2000 damage and still 2 mech left when the games ended.

My surprise was, there was no body in my team higher then 600 damage. I don't know they just choose the wrong mechs for the CW (in one match there was 5 light mechs for the first drop on the defense and I have to take also a light because none of them carrying ECM) or they were just that bad players.

So I can say this, in its current form CW is not profitable for IS PUG (you stay 30 mins in a match and get 300K C-Bills in a loss in normal modes I can at least make the double of it it in same time interval) or fun.

So in my opinion if PGI wants to have any success with CW, I guess they have to have some sort of rank system (I guess faction ranks can serv this purpose really good), so a newbie would not have to play against mostly veteran guys in PUG queue and a different PUG/Premade queue so Premade will not slaughter the PUGs.

Personally I have no intention to play more CW, I can't see the point.

Edited by speleomaniac, 26 May 2015 - 03:36 AM.

[102_devill]

I noticed this weekend as well a lot of PUG teams which looked generally confused and without an idea of what to do. Also, much less initiative and communication in such teams via VOIP. My guess is that seasoned players have either joined a unit or have given up on CW altogether, so what we have in the game are mostly 12-mans and rookie PUG groups.

I am definitely not bothering with CW unless there are some goodies to farm, and that is more of a job than fun.

[Romeo Deluxe]

Same debate, different post - no, the playerbase does not need to be divided into ever smaller pools.

So you only played 3 match's? How do you expect to learn all the tactics and counter tactics in 3 match's? Have you been in a match with pug's where you hear 6 or so people on comms? In 3 match's you didn't even see all the maps. /facepalm

[jaxjace]

speleomaniac, on 26 May 2015 - 12:05 AM, said:

Personally I have no intention to play more CW, I can't see the point.

To farm those 600 dmg pugs. thats literally it. oh and the MC and cbill boosts for doing it. Good job on doing so well in your first rounds of CW. if you run with 4 hero mechs or cbill boosted variants and prem time and keep doing those 2000 dmg games with all them kills and assists, you will net almost a million cbills, thats profitable for 30 minutes. GL

[102_devill]

Romeo Deluxe, on 26 May 2015 - 02:47 AM, said:

Same debate, different post - no, the playerbase does not need to be divided into ever smaller pools.

So you only played 3 match's? How do you expect to learn all the tactics and counter tactics in 3 match's? Have you been in a match with pug's where you hear 6 or so people on comms? In 3 match's you didn't even see all the maps. /facepalm

Yes it does, for the same reason the regular queue was divided into pug and group.
As numerous people already wrote random games should be included in CW and so everyone should be a part of CW no matter which game mode they choose. So, if we get the entire game population in a CW bucket, it will not be a problem to divide them as they are divided now in the regular matches.

This is not just some random shooter, so I don't see the need for a random match queue at all.

And finally, Romeo, you can facepalm yourself as hard as you can, but if the OP is not trolling, then his post is really interesting to see how people who just start to play CW feel about it. So, he feels as he wrote, and do you think that anyone's derogatory comment about it is going to motivate him or anyone else to stick to playing CW? As it is, CW is overly boring, predictable and as shallow as a puddle of rainwater from last week. Something needs to change and fast, if we want to have a population in it.

[speleomaniac]

Romeo Deluxe, on 26 May 2015 - 02:47 AM, said:

Same debate, different post - no, the playerbase does not need to be divided into ever smaller pools.

So you only played 3 match's? How do you expect to learn all the tactics and counter tactics in 3 match's? Have you been in a match with pug's where you hear 6 or so people on comms? In 3 match's you didn't even see all the maps. /facepalm

Your reaction just shows me you are one of the people who are happy to farm PUG newbies and enjoy it.

Now lets see, in your way of thinking there would be only 500 people playing CW and waiting for 30 mins in queue.

In my way of thinking there would 20000 people playing and there would be 10 mins queue time.

The short fact, you have to win new people to play CW if you want to reduce the queue times and this event didn't win me, go figure.

[Romeo Deluxe]

http://mwomercs.com/search?q=cw+queue
Go ahead and state your opinion to the many other threads on this exact same subject.

[Romeo Deluxe]

Quick to judge but slow to understand? Maybe. He didn't answer a single one of my questions, which are also challenges as far as I'm concerned. He didn't mention the LP/Contract rewards, which IMO are better than the solo queue achievements. He played all of 3 match's and probably played them like in the solo queue, where everyone runs around this way and that. Didn't mention that he tried or heard anyone on voice. Didn't bother to find out how to counter such tactics that he saw the opposition using. Probably didn't bother to figure out or ask how to adjust his IS mechs for a mode that you can face purely 12 Clan mechs and often as Kurita.

Premades are not magical units of super elite players. IMO that is exactly where you find a greater number of very average players who are just good at follow the leader. A few very good players doing most of the heavy lifting. It is rare in any game that you find an entire unit of top notch only players. So this idea of "OMG premades OP" is very tiring to hear when the truth is that you stand a good chance of winning. I've been in a few match's where people literally gave up before it launched, as soon as they saw the opposition. Didn't even try. In some others, there was a real effort to rise to the occasion.

The tactics in CW are rather simple compared to say raid mechanics in most MMO's. The only difference between units and pugs is that the units get a bit of jump on putting together tactics. Eventually everyone knows what more or less will be employed and how to adjust your fighting. Voice is available to everyone in-game. Pugs have access to the exact same tools that units do.

Damage - total damage doesn't tell the whole story of what goes down in battle and never has. Someone can do low damage but manage more kills or just contribute more than someone who did a higher total damage. Just tonight screwing around in my NARC Raven I got low damage but over 200k cbills. Forgot what the XP was but it was high as well. (reference also the reappearing debate on LRM's usefulness or uselessness)

Separating noobs/pugs from veterans/premades - I can understand the match maker trying to balance teams in the solo queue but complete separation is a horrible idea. As a pug/noob the best way is to watch or interact with the veterans. The OP hasn't been in a match where there was 1 or 2 good experienced leaders. Even a somewhat OK leader can change the course of battle. What's that old saying? The blind leading the blind. You will learn a lot more by being around veterans, even fighting them head on.

Queue times - They have stated that roughly only 10 or 11% of players(forgot exact number) play CW. That was during the Tuk event! So it's pretty awful at other times. They can do some things to tweak the queueing and launching of a match but they will never be able to reduce the queue times any significant amount until there is a big influx of players. I have accepted this and frankly the queue times in CW have stopped bothering me. My motivation isn't going to be cbills, it's playing the game in a different manner. I have noticed a lot more camaraderie in CW and a hell of a lot less foul mouthed players than in the solo queue. Also a hell of a lot more of an attempt to play as a team than going Rambo, although I don't mind going back and forth between play styles.

It's interesting to watch CW develop. Not exactly at lightning pace, but you see changes slowly rolling out. Hopefully the pace continues. The OP made up his mind after only 3 match's. Fine for him I suppose. We clearly have a different approach to assessing things. If he doesn't enjoy it and thinks it's pointless then so be it. He stated his opinion and I stated mine. I'm always wary about putting myself into tiny little mental boxes.

[Khereg]

RokerSaMoravu, on 26 May 2015 - 03:10 AM, said:

Yes it does, for the same reason the regular queue was divided into pug and group.

I sympathize, but the current CW population simply can't support further subdivision. You could try to make the argument that separating out the groups would entice more people to play, but I think you'd still have a problem where pre-made groups would have trouble finding a match.

They would then enter the solo queue and synch drop to essentially the same effect.

Or, you can hope that the player base explodes, possibly after the steam release. That could happen, but would probably be temporary. MWO is a pretty niche game with a fairly narrow appeal. Many of us are older and have battletech nostalgia at work. Also, the complexity of the mech varieties, loadouts, etc make it fairly unappealing to the point and shoot crowd (a plus, IMHO).

I don't mean to come off as a "git good" kind of guy, but OP pointed out in his first CW matches ever he was puling down 2k damage. There's a lesson there.

[Tywren]

RokerSaMoravu, on 26 May 2015 - 03:10 AM, said:

Yes it does, for the same reason the regular queue was divided into pug and group.
As numerous people already wrote random games should be included in CW and so everyone should be a part of CW no matter which game mode they choose. So, if we get the entire game population in a CW bucket, it will not be a problem to divide them as they are divided now in the regular matches.

This is not just some random shooter, so I don't see the need for a random match queue at all.

And finally, Romeo, you can facepalm yourself as hard as you can, but if the OP is not trolling, then his post is really interesting to see how people who just start to play CW feel about it. So, he feels as he wrote, and do you think that anyone's derogatory comment about it is going to motivate him or anyone else to stick to playing CW? As it is, CW is overly boring, predictable and as shallow as a puddle of rainwater from last week. Something needs to change and fast, if we want to have a population in it.

I was in agreement with you until the highlighted part. CW isn't this deep!

[Asmosis]

Romeo Deluxe, on 26 May 2015 - 05:54 AM, said:

Premades are not magical units of super elite players.

The difference between a team using voice chat co-ordination and a team not even using text communication is pretty close to Magic

On the subject of queues, I'm as anti pre vs pug as they come, but even I recognize the queues in CW can't be split (not without significantly changing the non-CW queues). Then again, with a combined queue the solo players are quickly dropping out of it so its basically just a group queue outside of events.

Edited by Asmosis, 27 May 2015 - 01:43 AM.

[T0rmented]

I just want to point out that community warfare, is COMMUNITY warfare, the mode is simply not designed for solo's but for - wait for it - dun dun DUUUUN, communities! It was and is intended to be that way from the get go. The best way to experience this mode is in a large group against another large group.
Each and every house or clan has a teamspeak server dedicated to grouping up for CW. If you are getting a raw deal and bad experience, it is because you are choosing to play the game mode in a way it is not intended to be, which would be fine if your opponents were doing the same.
PGI has bent over backwards trying to get solo players the tools they need to be able to have a community experience without the use of TS (see in game VOIP, LFG and faction chat). If players are still choosing to be anti social and not work with their team then their bad experience is on them.
I tell you all this not to belittle solo players or make them feel bad, but because farming out solo's is tedious for the group players too, if the anti-socials actually started communicating and working together i might get a game where i experience some resistance and actually have to earn a win. The best games i have ever had since closed beta, are the CW games where my group meets another group and we both try to outplay each other.
Honestly i do not understand the 'solo only' attitude some players have (not just in CW but the regular queue too) this is one of if not the most team-oriented online games i have ever played and most of the fun comes from working with your team in order to get the 'W' - in either game mode.

[speleomaniac]

T0rmented, on 27 May 2015 - 02:20 AM, said:

I just want to point out that community warfare, is COMMUNITY warfare, the mode is simply not designed for solo's but for - wait for it - dun dun DUUUUN, communities! It was and is intended to be that way from the get go. The best way to experience this mode is in a large group against another large group.
Each and every house or clan has a teamspeak server dedicated to grouping up for CW. If you are getting a raw deal and bad experience, it is because you are choosing to play the game mode in a way it is not intended to be, which would be fine if your opponents were doing the same.
PGI has bent over backwards trying to get solo players the tools they need to be able to have a community experience without the use of TS (see in game VOIP, LFG and faction chat). If players are still choosing to be anti social and not work with their team then their bad experience is on them.
I tell you all this not to belittle solo players or make them feel bad, but because farming out solo's is tedious for the group players too, if the anti-socials actually started communicating and working together i might get a game where i experience some resistance and actually have to earn a win. The best games i have ever had since closed beta, are the CW games where my group meets another group and we both try to outplay each other.
Honestly i do not understand the 'solo only' attitude some players have (not just in CW but the regular queue too) this is one of if not the most team-oriented online games i have ever played and most of the fun comes from working with your team in order to get the 'W' - in either game mode.

Let me explain this way, I am 45 years old and father of 2, I don't have a time to organize groups, discuss tactics for 30 mins.

When I have free 30 mins time, I want to jump into a game, have fun and return back to real life, but when I jump into a game, I want to have the equal chance to win then %80 chance to be rofl stomped.

What I said make me anti-social, then yes I am anti-social but I have a strong feeling paying customer base profile of this game fits my profile then the other way around.

If CW as a concept doesn't fit to this profile, then I will not play it. I didn't played for WoT, I will not play it here.

[DoctorDetroit]

Join a team. It makes CW a lot more enjoyable. Setup planned drop decks and try out different strategies. That is the only way you can accomplish this unless you get really lucky with a VOIP active PUG team (has happened, but rare). Many units are casual and do not require much time commitment and most players want fast drops too. Also, planning drop decks can take awhile or can be as simple as everyone bring a light mech and 1 Assault mech for specific pushes.

Edited by DoctorDetroit, 27 May 2015 - 05:07 AM.

[sycocys]

Not at all opposed to a ranking system.

Opposed to the queue separation - if you were around before it on standard queue you'll understand how it completely dumbed down the game got after they implemented it.

Had a lot more typed, but I really don't get the impression that you care enough to take the initiative to make your own experience with the game better. If I'm wrong just say so and we will hook you up with the information to get faster more interesting matches.

[T0rmented]

speleomaniac, on 27 May 2015 - 04:42 AM, said:

Let me explain this way, I am 45 years old and father of 2, I don't have a time to organize groups, discuss tactics for 30 mins.

When I have free 30 mins time, I want to jump into a game, have fun and return back to real life, but when I jump into a game, I want to have the equal chance to win then %80 chance to be rofl stomped.

What I said make me anti-social, then yes I am anti-social but I have a strong feeling paying customer base profile of this game fits my profile then the other way around.

If CW as a concept doesn't fit to this profile, then I will not play it. I didn't played for WoT, I will not play it here.

you completely missed the point about LFG and house/clan TS servers, they exist so you can jump in and jump out of groups/games quickly, theose servers exist for people like yourself, those that just want to grab a quick game with *some* teamwork and organisation. The very fact that your dismissing the idea of grouping with people out of hand without considering it is what makes you anti-social.

Also now that you are stating you are time limited grouping is even more vital for your experience of this game mode, groups get games quicker, seriously if you want to have fun quickly solo is the worst way to do it as indicated in your OP your solo exp. kinda sucked.

Edited by T0rmented, 27 May 2015 - 06:42 AM.

[Bilbo]

T0rmented, on 27 May 2015 - 06:36 AM, said:

you completely missed the point about LFG and house/clan TS servers, they exist so you can jump in and jump out of groups/games quickly, theose servers exist for people like yourself, those that just want to grab a quick game with *some* teamwork and organisation. The very fact that your dismissing the idea of grouping with people out of hand without considering it is what makes you anti-social.

Also now that you are stating you are time limited grouping is even more vital for your experience of this game mode, groups get games quicker

There is another mode of play that ensures a solo player can get into games fairly quickly. Why jump through hoops to get into a CW match when you can get a match elsewhere without issue? If someone wanted to take advantage of comms and create *some* semblance of teamwork and organization that is available to use in the public queue as well.

[T0rmented]

Yeah and that mode is designed for solo play. I was offering advice on how to enjoy the community gamemode, hint its not solo. The funniest part is the solo game mode, is best played with teamwork and communication .. .

Edited by T0rmented, 27 May 2015 - 06:57 AM.

[sycocys]

The standard solo players still QQ when they get stomped by other solo players that decided to communicate. I would be willing to bet that you see far, far more 12-1 matches in standard than you see 48-12 matches in CW even if you are straight solo pug against the better of the unit premades.

[T0rmented]

Yeah man you are right, this game needs some kind of notification:
Playing solo and selfish are likely to cause a sub optimal experience, this game is intended for teamplay