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Accurate Descriptions Of Bt Faction Governments


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#1 Bill Bullet

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 05:00 AM

However despite having several elite regiments the FWL has never been a major military power because of the Home Defense Act, an edict that allows a province to retain up to 75% of it's military forces within its borders. This poorly thought out (on the Captain-General's part) piece of legislation has hampered large-scale offensive military actions by the FWL.

(Figured I'd throw in my two cents, it's my favorite bit of trivia about the FWLM. Good stuff, keep on truckin!)

#2 YaKillinMeSmalls

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 08:42 PM

And then...?

#3 Strum Wealh

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 12:40 PM

View PostMarack Drock, on 19 June 2015 - 08:22 PM, said:

Today is House Davion

So house Davion is widely viewed as a Parliamentary-Monarchy. Well lets see if that is true.

So lets start with Leadership. The Federated Suns (or Federation as it is called by its citizens) is led by the First Prince as the highest authority. BUT it has three other levelled leaders. These are the March Lords (who are usually friendly dynasties of the Davions, like the Haseks or Sandoval houses). The March Lords control one March. There are three (Capellan, Draconis, and Crucis). Each of these March Lords has power over their respective March except when they are called upon or overridden by the First Prince. The First Prince is... basically the Federated Suns' ultimate lord and power. The position of First Prince is similar to that of the Captain General of the FWL. Even before the title of First Prince was created the government was largely ruled completely by House Davion (there have been 6 outside rulers and none that are not Davion since 2512). The First Prince has power (complete power) over the military, and has pretty much ultimate power.

In theory it is supposed to propose all its decisions to the High Council, but no matter what, the High Council either always votes in favor of what the Prince says or the High Council is bipassed completely. Because of this the Council is regarded as a waste and a "Rubber Stamp" organization.

To keep loyalty to the military all First Princes must have 5 years of military service.

So right now, it is rather just looking like... a plain Monarchy with no Parliamentary services at the moment. The High Council serves no purpose and the Privy Council is an advisory council to the First Prince (but it is important in the day to day running of the state).

The people maintain a few (and I mean a few) basic rights: Rights to Religion, Speech, and the ability to APPEAL to have an unpopular politician removed. Note they say appeal this is so that the Politicians can all vote and protect each other.

While there are some basic Parliamentary views I believe this to be an Aristocracy/Tetrarchy with a few rights reserved from the government for basic Human rights.

That's a rather incomplete analysis, Marack.

It is true that the First Prince is the highest power in the Federated Suns, by virtue of being the senior noble, political ruler, and commander-in-chief of the AFFS.
The Davion family has the exclusive claim to this post, as made law by amendment to the Crucis Pact, with the DeBurke Treatise of 2846 laying down the rules for succession. Additionally, before a member of the Davion family can become First Prince (a gender neutral term for the office), he or she must have reached the age of majority (20 years of age) and have served at least five years within the Armed Forces of the Federated Suns.
The "five years of service" stipulation is a matter of FedSuns law, not a matter of "[keeping] loyalty to the military".

There is an additional layer of leadership in the Prince's Champion, a senior AFFS field marshal who is hand-picked by the First Prince and given the responsibility to make immediate military and political decisions when the First Prince is unable to do so in a timely manner (due to incapacity or distance) that are subject to review or reversal by the First Prince (when he or she is once again available) & the High Council (which has the power to block controversial decisions by the Champion that could impact the political makeup of the Federated Suns).

There is also the Privy Council - made up of the leaders of the nation’s eight ministries (whose powers, both separately and together exceeds even that of the most senior of the nation’s dukes, and who are answerable only to the First Prince), the president of the High Council, one member-at-large elected by the High Council, the Marshal of the Armies, the commanders of the AFFS’ eight departments, and the Prince’s Champion - whose job is to recommend appointments, approve major treaties and agreements, oversee the political and military bureaucracies of the Federated Suns, and to ratify the line of succession upon the death or retirement of the First Prince.

Then, there is the High Council. Composed of delegates from every full-member world, as well as non-voting advisors from the variety of associate worlds, the High Council was originally responsible for overseeing such important issues as electing representatives to foreign governments, approving treaties, and enacting internal laws; over time, many of those responsibilities were transferred to the Privy Council. However, the High Council remains an important advisory body in the modern FedSuns government, debating matters of national import, passing resolutions to put before the First Prince, and even passing internal interstellar regulations.

And then there is, finally, the nobility - including the dukes (of whom the March Lords are merely the three most senior), marquesses, counts, barons, and knights.

Like the modern United Kingdom and historical British Empire upon which it is obviously based, the government of the Federated Suns is designed as a "unitary parliamentary constitutional monarchy"; it is not an absolute aristrocracy, and is anything but a tetrarchy.

#4 Strum Wealh

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 03:01 AM

View PostMarack Drock, on 27 July 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

The Privy council is made up entirely of noblemen with little power but to run the day to day social issues of the Suns. It is an aristocratic system. And the high council (by current lore) doesn't exist. It was expelled after the formation of the Federated Commonwealth. And the High Council is primarily made up (normally) of Haseks and Davions thus it will always vote in favor of their leader. The High Council is also aristocratic.

Also the Prince's champion is as you said hand picked... thus he is only a puppet. Hence why he is hand picked. Also I was analyzing the government not the military. The Prince's Champion also has NO power unless the Prince is dead, injured, incapacitated, etc. Champions are nothing more than regents with nothing to do until their lord is dead or unable to serve, because the Prince maintains sole control over the AFFS at all times unless as I said above injured or so on.

But yes you do bring up some fair points but by modern lore standards (Dark Age) they are outdated and actually are now given we are in the Federated Commonwealth almost (in three years given Tukayyid just happened), thus the High Council has no authority technically. Its still an Aristocracy and the March Lords have the next highest authority next to the Prince. The High Council barely serves any purpose anymore other than to help along the Prince. Thus making it an Aristocratic Tetrarchy as I said.

Also I think you might have misunderstood Tetrarchy to mean four monarchs or something. It means a Government with power split among four people which is fair to see. The March Lords do reserve certain rights that the Prince does not have control of, and the March Lords also prove to do much more work with the people directly than the Prince (similar to the Privy Council but the Privy Council's sole purpose is to work with the people practically).

I'd like to see your source regarding the assertion that the High Council was "expelled after the formation of the Federated Commonwealth"; there is no mention of its abolishment in any sourcebook (specifically: House Davion (The Federated Suns), Handbook: House Davion, Era Report: 3052, Era Report: 3062, or Era Report: 3145).
In fact, Handbook: House Davion states (on page 113) that one Count Horatio Duvall is both New Avalon's representative to the High Council AND the President of the High Council as of late 3067.
Furthermore, the High Council is made up of representatives from each world in the FedSuns; it is by no means "primarily made up (normally) of Haseks and Davions". Again, I'd like to know what source(s) you'd be using to support this assertion.

The Prince's Champion is no more "a puppet" to the First Prince than, say, the US Vice-President is "a puppet" to the POTUS. Specifically, the Champion has the ability to make military & national security decisions on behalf of the First Prince in the event that the latter is away from New Avalon or otherwise unable to provide direct & immediate leadership (which does not require the Prince to be dead or otherwise incapacitated), as well as act as a courier of sensitive communications and exercise discretionary powers to address issues that cannot be addressed within the normal chains of command & act as the senior military advisor to the First Prince.

You've also ignored the several levels of government between the First Prince and the March Lords. Specifically, the Prince's Champion, the Privy Council, the High Council, and even the "mere" individual ministers of the FedSuns government outrank even the March Lords with regard to governmental power. While the March Lords may be the next level of nobility down the ladder from the First Prince, their power is still well below that of the FedSuns government.

So, no, the Suns is still not a tetrarchy (which is actually defined as "government by four persons ruling jointly"), and while it is an aristocracy (insofar that there is a nobility class that does participate in the governance of the realm), it is more-specifically a constitutional monarchy (where the "monarch" is the First Prince and the "constitution" defining and restricting the Prince's powers is the Crucis Pact) that is also a unitary state ("a state governed as one single power in which the central government is ultimately supreme and any administrative divisions (subnational units) exercise only powers that their central government chooses to delegate") that also possesses a parliamentary system (in the form of the High Council & the Privy Council).

#5 GonaDie

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 08:05 AM

I want clamz. Do clamz or I will troll this thread to oblivion :D

Good stuff BTW.

#6 GonaDie

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 08:11 AM

View PostMarack Drock, on 28 July 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

Thanks GonaDie and yes. I am thinking either Clan Jade Falcon or Clan Ghost Bear might be my next. Definitely going to have to research these more, but maybe I could see if I can get Jaroth Corbett to help me out with those (my knowledge of the Clans is a little limited do to the fact I own little source material on them, other than stuff like the Jade Phoenix Trilogy).

Oh yes, Jaroth knows A LOT about clan lore.

#7 Rorik Thrumsalr

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 06:10 PM

Oh yes, Bears are a good way to go. Falcons though may be a better "baseline" to compare the other clans to.





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