32 replies to this topic

[Foxfire kadrpg]

This post is a cautionary lecture to anyone who is trying to "git gud" and finds they are failing.

Forget the Laser vomit, LuRMing, 360 no-scope, trick-stab, just frame, and numerous other "skills" bragged about by the giddy little kids that proliferate online gaming. There are three behaviors, which, when honed will place you head and shoulders above the competition.

Those skills are Patience, Forethought, and Inference.

Patience, in a game, is the ability to override your desire for stimulus long enough to achieve. Its that ability to sit behind cover until your enemy moves from his, or the LRM boat loses its lock on you. It is the UN-FUN part of winning, and thus hard to learn.
Honing patience for a competitive match is difficult for some, (you are playing a game to have fun, right?) but perhaps the following thoughts might help you improve it.
- would you rather be alive at the end, facing a few crippled foes, or sit for eight minutes, waiting to get to play your mech again?
- do you believe that guy who shot at you until you ducked in cover is going to watch your spot forever?
- while you are not firing at an enemy, your mech is cooling down. This will make it a lot easier to unload on him when you really need to.

Forethought is the ability to plan ahead. It is the imagination at work, thinking about the future, and setting up actions ahead of time. Forethought, more than accuracy or builds (which are important, too) sets professionals apart from average players, and is often the least looked at behavior when a player is trying to improve his skill.
Ask yourself this: does it matter if your weapon accuracy is 80%, if you step into view of four other players with an accuracy of 50%? Is there a mech that can mount enough DPS to survive walking into view of the entire team?
Give some consideration to how your opponents will react, and where everyone will be in the next minute, and you'll find yourself succeeding a lot more.
Memory helps to build Forethought, too! When you win or lose at a game, ask yourself why, and recall the circumstances that lead up to it. (and don't just say 'because my team'... Focus on what YOU could have done better.)

Inference is the hardest talent to learn in any game. It is not just forethought, but deduction. Inference is "a conclusion reached on the basis of evidence and reasoning". Some examples of inference: If you are in range of an enemy, twin-AC20 Jaggermech, and he does NOT shoot you, you could infer that he is avoiding shutdown, or that he might be out of ammo.If you detect a Direwolf within the first 30 seconds of a match, you can infer the location of the opponents' assault lance (pub que only).
Inference allows for decisions that put you at considerable advantage. It is that decision to aim for the right torso on a Dragon (it is a reasonable assumption the dragon will use an XL engine, as well as putting emphasis on their right arm weapon which you might hit when missing the ST). It is the decision to check fire until you are point blank behind the target, rather than give him the chance to turn around or alert his friends (Which is what YOU would do if grazed from behind).
Don't just think about where you want to move on the battlefield. Think about what routes are open to the enemy, measure where they might go, and then plan your travel to be in good position for that.

I know this 'guide' really didn't offer much advice, but doggone it... players keep talking about "[this weapon] takes no skill", and they get mad when they blunder into the situation favoring that weapon. THINK! for crying out loud.

[Bloodweaver]

Foxfire kadrpg, on 13 June 2015 - 03:02 PM, said:

I know this 'guide' really didn't offer much advice...

On the contrary, this is among the most useful guides for new players I've seen on the fora. Bookmarked, and I've been playing since before Project Phoenix, IIRC These three points really are the main things players need to learn in MWO, because they are the three areas that set this game apart from the vast majority of other shooters. That slower-placed but still fun gameplay is an uncommon mixture, and the only thing that has kept me coming back in spite of bad scaling, horrible customer interactions, un-simlike arcade feel, and other such things over the years.

[Tim East]

I especially liked your advice on Inference. You can do so much more though. Based on the equipment detected on the enemy coupled with observed movement speed, you can frequently infer whether or not they are sporting XL engines. Based on that inference you may then elect to target ST or CT/Legs appropriately. If you see a Jager boating heavy ballistics, you can infer that he has to have put his ammo somewhere, and know from experience that the legs are generally accepted as "safe" places to store that because people usually aim CT every time. If you see someone boating streaks, they probably have active probe, TAG, or a poor understanding of the game. If you see a (c) mech with the default weapons, there's a decent chance that it's a newbie. You really can't go wrong with a solid alpha on a Grid Iron's rear right torso, for instance.

Basically, what I'm saying is that a thorough knowledge of mech construction will allow you to infer so many things about both your opponents' mechs' capabilities and weaknesses, and their probable relative skill levels that it is in my opinion a must-have skill to develop. When you get really practiced, you should be able to tell what the enemy's entire build is just by the silhouette of their mech and what they shoot at you.

One other thing to infer: the enemy's likely strategy based on where they are NOT. If you don't see them rushing the place on every map that every PUG goes, they're probably trying to be tricky, and you should look toward the alternate routes to your base.

[warner2]

10/10 would read again

[Wintersdark]

Pretty great post, really, and while it may not have a lot of detail it's definitely the more important stuff a new player should consider when learning to play.

[Wintersdark]

Incidentally, all of the most important Mechwarrior skills are based on the OP's points.

Actual aim is really not incredibly important. It matters, obviously, but using the points above to know WHERE to aim, WHEN to fire matters more. A shot to a centurion's shield arm is basically as bad as a miss. As Tim East said, hitting someone in the side when holding your fire for a moment - keeping your presence a secret - to unload into his back later is better.

Something else along those lines! If you're behind a group of foes, before you let fly into exposed backs, think about this: Who will see your fire? Are they engaged with allies? Do you want lots of them to turn, or just the guy you shoot? If they're all engaged with allies, having more turn to face you is often ideal, so firing at a further forward mech will allow others to see fire coming from behind, making it a fair bit more likely multiple enemies will turn to find you - exposing their backs in turn to your allies. On the other hand, if they're moving and not currently engaged, that'll get you ganked. Instead, watch your fire, target someone where the other players won't see your fire. In the solo queue, it's entirely likely that the rest of that group of players will be completely unaware what's going on. If you move back into cover, the player you shot won't have a chance to target you, so you won't appear on his allies radar.

Maybe he'll be delayed, left behind by his unknowing allies.

Try to put yourself in your opponent's cockpit. Don't just advance and shoot at enemy mechs, try to predict what they'll do, and how you can manipulate that.

[Nine-Ball]

Foxfire kadrpg, on 13 June 2015 - 03:02 PM, said:

This post is a cautionary lecture to anyone who is trying to "git gud" and finds they are failing.

Forget the Laser vomit, LuRMing, 360 no-scope, trick-stab, just frame, and numerous other "skills" bragged...

Lol, lrn2gitgud.

u Mad bro cause you can never just frame-trick-stab 360 no-scope while laser vomiting LuRMs?

[Tarogato]

I feel that playing Locusts hones all of these skills exponentially and simultaneously (including Wintersdark's contributions). I highly recommend the experience, though not for the faint of heart.

For instance... when I'm piloting my Locust, I put myself in the shoes of the enemy assault and think "where would be the worst place and time for a Locust to show up?" "If I were a streakcrow right now, where would I be?"

[Bloodweaver]

I both agree and disagree, Tarogato. Locusts are the lightest 'Mech in the game, yeah, but they have gotten some truly insane quirks, in both weaponry and hitpoints. Honestly, they're one of the more powerful lights now. Not Firestarter level, no - but about the same level as Jenners and Spiders, if not a bit higher even. I think Locusts can still give you a lot of good experience, but they were honestly a better teacher (and more fun, IMO) before they got those buffs.

[Spleenslitta]

Listen to the OP rookies. If an entire team of PUG's had these 3 attributes they could slaughter a 12 man even if the PUG's do not cooperate with each other.
There are times when patience can do amazing stuff. I once got 270 damage without a single scratch on my mech.
No bumps or laser scratches all because i was patient and persistently relocated after every shot.
270 damage ain't high but if my entire team died i would have had very good odds for killing the remaining enemies because my armor was not touched.

I also did 450 damage but only suffered a single PPC hit in return. All this because of patience alone. Just that single quality.
Well perhaps not just patience...the other qualities were definitivly there but to a lesser degree.

[ExoForce]

Foxfire kadrpg, on 13 June 2015 - 03:02 PM, said:

Memory helps to build Forethought, too! When you win or lose at a game, ask yourself why, and recall the circumstances that lead up to it. (and don't just say 'because my team'... Focus on what YOU could have done better.)

[Tim East]

Bloodweaver, on 13 June 2015 - 10:46 PM, said:

I both agree and disagree, Tarogato. Locusts are the lightest 'Mech in the game, yeah, but they have gotten some truly insane quirks, in both weaponry and hitpoints. Honestly, they're one of the more powerful lights now. Not Firestarter level, no - but about the same level as Jenners and Spiders, if not a bit higher even. I think Locusts can still give you a lot of good experience, but they were honestly a better teacher (and more fun, IMO) before they got those buffs.

Locusts have been quirked to be fantastic at killing, on par with Jenners and only a little behind Firestarters. They have not, with the exception of the 3V, been quirked to be very good at surviving. A Spider or Commando will still last a good bit longer than a Locust under fire, so I feel that the best teaching aspect of the Locust remains intact. The thing that driving Locusts really ingrains in you is to know at all times what an enemy is doing based on minimal information, specifically the facing of their legs on the minimap. If you don't develop the ability to sense what the enemy is doing and act accordingly, you will still die, very, very, very fast in a Locust, just like pre-quirks.

As far as fun factor goes...well, quirks didn't really change much for me on the first pass. My 3M got a crazy range buff, but I still mostly just got up in the teeth of the enemy to kill them. The second pass however, made the 1E so much better than the 3M that I went ahead and bought one just for the laser duration buff. I'd love to see the 3M return to viability, and don't disagree that the quirks on the 1E are probably a bit much in comparison to anything but Firestarters. Still, I have fun in any Locust but the 1V.

[Rhavin]

I am a founder that quit because of lack of Internet service, when I quit the meta game didn't really exist. You lurm boated and brawled. I came back last week to a new game, and failed constantly till I read this post and was reminded of the basics. Thank you.

[Kahadras]

As a cautionary note I'd like to add a quote from The Mummy...

Evelyn: Patience is a virtue
Rick: Not right now it isn't

Patience is good but it's also important to understand that you have to know when to act. Patience isn't about sitting in cover waiting for your enemy to wander out into the open in front of you. Patience is about not dashing into a bad tactical postion. It's about taking a moment to look at the situation and react apropriately even if it means that you might not get straight into the fight.

Patience is also the small things in Mechwarrior like taking that extra second to line up a shot so that it hits rather than praying and spraying. Hitting the R button to gain a lock. Holding your fire to allow yourself to cool down if you are in danger of overheating. Checking the radar to keep a track of where your team mates are.

The real skill comes at being able to judge when patience is required and when it needs to take a back seat.

[Zookeeper Dan]

Great post! I still struggle with them, especially patience.

I would add a number 4 though.

Communication is the ability to inform your teammates of the situation so you can better act as a team. If you and a teammate face two other mechs and they communicate to focus fire while you don't they will be victorious. Communication is also important to relay status of the battlefield (ecm atlas in B4) that your teammates might miss. Or to let them know how they can help you or you can help them (mech with NARC, look for the beacons). In addition it can help teammates avoid behavior that end in defeat (don't chase the light). The best predictor of victory is the team that communicates most effectively.

The other side of the coin is you have to be open to your teammate's communication.

Edited by Danth Reduviid, 17 June 2015 - 06:18 PM.

[Nightmare1]

With respect to the OP, this video demonstrates those three skills very well:



The only reason why we won was because of the patient planning that went into battling those last four Mechs in a 1v4 scenario. For those curious, it came down to a single, damaged Enforcer against a Dire Wolf (relatively fresh), two Ebon Jags, and an ECM Loki.

The Enforcer won because it practiced those three concepts in the OP.

[ExoForce]

Nightmare1, on 18 June 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

With respect to the OP, this video demonstrates those three skills very well:

When I grow up, I want to be a Nightmare.

Edited by ExoForce, 20 June 2015 - 03:43 PM.

[mailin]

Patience is hugely important, as everyone agrees. But this needs to be combined with the other two; otherwise it can result in a loss.

For example, I recently dropped on Forest colony in skirmish mode. My team had the upper drop zone and most of us, including myself went landward wile one lance decided a little late to go water. They were spotted but were doing a pretty good job of using the boat for cover. The rest of us paused by the arch near the cave entrance and waited. One lance of the enemy moved to the water to engage our lance, one lance of the enemy turned toward the water to snipe. Leaving 4 enemies facing our 8 mechs by the bridge. I informed my teammates of the enemy movement and where there attention was and said that we should push hard through the arch and take out the 4 mechs that we were up against. Instead of listening to me, my teammates stalled. The enemy swept our lance out of the water and then moved to attack us from two directions. The whole time, none of my teammates moved very far. That round was a 3-12 loss, but it could have easily gone the other way.

The lesson, patience is good, but you also need to know when to aggressively push into the enemy. If you are looking at 2-1 odds in your favor with comparable firepower in each mech, go for it, call targets and everybody fire on the same guy until he drops.

Edited by mailin, 20 June 2015 - 03:51 PM.

[Nightmare1]

ExoForce, on 20 June 2015 - 03:43 PM, said:

When I grow up, I want to be a Nightmare.

*Chuckle*

[juxstapo]

Ahh the soothing sound of the occasional ring of truth to that "Thinking Man's Shooter" claim.
Well said Kemosabe, well said.