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Development Priority? We Don't Need More Mechs.


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#1 ShadowSpirit

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 01:02 PM

Seriously. We don't need new mechs. We need improved new player experience, better small group mechanics (why is everything 12 vs 12 cluster muck?), and some sort of campaign mode to get players introduced to the game.

This game has one of the _WORST_ new player experiences of most of its contemporaries: WoT, WoPlanes, War Thunder, etc.

Steam release is going to do jack ____ for this game if you don 't deal with the incredible learning curve. Get people in better mechs more quickly. Let mastering a chassis be part of the new player learning experience. Something.

/end mini-rant

Edited by ShadowSpirit, 16 June 2015 - 01:03 PM.


#2 Summon3r

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 01:39 PM

id say worst new player experience..... clans need more mechs IS doesnt, though after this wave 3 should be good for drop options..... lets not kid ourselves though there will never be any depth here

#3 Ironwithin

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 03:45 PM

So you're saying you want the 3D-artists working on the game-code and the concept-artists fiddling around with AI for bots/NPCs ?
What could possibly go wrong there...

Edited by Ironwithin, 16 June 2015 - 03:45 PM.


#4 Tarogato

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 04:24 PM

People who work on mechs aren't necessarily equipped to work on things like "new player experience."

Every. Single. Patch. There's. Always. Somebody... that tries to blame the lack of development on the new mech production.

Yes, there's slow development, but it's not the mech-packs' fault.

#5 jackal40

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 04:35 PM

View PostIronwithin, on 16 June 2015 - 03:45 PM, said:

So you're saying you want the 3D-artists working on the game-code and the concept-artists fiddling around with AI for bots/NPCs ?
What could possibly go wrong there...

Put them to work play testing, developing tutorials, and the like. We need those too. I doubt anyone expects them to code, but maybe they can do other things that are sorely needed.

As an alternative, let a few of them go and hire more programmers that can fix the issues that have existed for so long.

#6 ShadowSpirit

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 06:23 PM

View PostIronwithin, on 16 June 2015 - 03:45 PM, said:

So you're saying you want the 3D-artists working on the game-code and the concept-artists fiddling around with AI for bots/NPCs ?
What could possibly go wrong there...


Yes. Absolutely. They need to do something other than what they're doing right now.

View PostTarogato, on 16 June 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

People who work on mechs aren't necessarily equipped to work on things like "new player experience."

Every. Single. Patch. There's. Always. Somebody... that tries to blame the lack of development on the new mech production.

Yes, there's slow development, but it's not the mech-packs' fault.


I'm just saying they're not focusing where they need to focus. This game has been out a _very long time_ and the new player experience is complete garbage.

Edited by ShadowSpirit, 16 June 2015 - 06:29 PM.


#7 Dracol

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 09:50 PM

View Postjackal40, on 16 June 2015 - 04:35 PM, said:

Put them to work play testing, developing tutorials, and the like. We need those too. I doubt anyone expects them to code, but maybe they can do other things that are sorely needed.

View PostShadowSpirit, on 16 June 2015 - 06:23 PM, said:

Yes. Absolutely. They need to do something other than what they're doing right now.

hmm.. I can see the conversation now:

"Hey Bob, I know we hired you because you had an impressive portfolio from your 3D Animation / Modeling degree and your 3 years in the industry working as a play tester before your big break getting a position as a 3D modeler at your prior position. And, I know we hired you to do modeling and your mech models have been very well received. But, next month we need you to do play testing and help Mike get permission from community supporters to utilize their video tutorials. "

Bob responds....

"I understand....um, ya I'll talk to upper management for you Bob. If they don't reconsider their position, I will gladly write you a letter of recommendation so you can find employment that allows you to perform the duties you have trained and worked hard to become an industry professional with. "

Edited by Dracol, 16 June 2015 - 09:54 PM.


#8 ShadowSpirit

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 11:59 PM

View PostDracol, on 16 June 2015 - 09:50 PM, said:

hmm.. I can see the conversation now:

"Hey Bob, I know we hired you because you had an impressive portfolio from your 3D Animation / Modeling degree and your 3 years in the industry working as a play tester before your big break getting a position as a 3D modeler at your prior position. And, I know we hired you to do modeling and your mech models have been very well received. But, next month we need you to do play testing and help Mike get permission from community supporters to utilize their video tutorials. "

Bob responds....

"I understand....um, ya I'll talk to upper management for you Bob. If they don't reconsider their position, I will gladly write you a letter of recommendation so you can find employment that allows you to perform the duties you have trained and worked hard to become an industry professional with. "


You're telling me that New Player Experience wouldn't require 3D modeling, testers, et al.? No wonder it sucks so bad. The community defends this? LOL

The game isn't bringing in new blood an no amount of advertising on Steam is going to help if the community and developer don't come together and say, "Yes, this deserves attention."

#9 Ironwithin

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 12:19 AM

View PostShadowSpirit, on 16 June 2015 - 11:59 PM, said:

...
The community defends this? LOL
...


3 or 4 people stating their opinions is not "the community", on the other hand 3 or 4 people telling you you're wrong might mean you're wrong. Just sayin'.

Not arguing the game DOESN'T need better tutorials, it clearly does.
It's just pointless to make the lady from accounting do it. Look what she did to the UI over the last couple of years ... (she is getting better at it, though).

#10 Dracol

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 05:21 AM

View PostShadowSpirit, on 16 June 2015 - 11:59 PM, said:

You're telling me that New Player Experience wouldn't require 3D modeling, testers, et al.? No wonder it sucks so bad. The community defends this? LOL

The game isn't bringing in new blood an no amount of advertising on Steam is going to help if the community and developer don't come together and say, "Yes, this deserves attention."

I did not state at all that I do not believe a better new player experience is required.

Your comment "Yes. Absolutely. They need to do something other than what they're doing right now." was in response to Ironwithin's comment: "So you're saying you want the 3D-artists working on the game-code and the concept-artists fiddling around with AI for bots/NPCs ?
What could possibly go wrong there.. "

Shadowspirit you do make a valid point in the sense that a new player experience could use some 3D modeling...but the major argument presented in general is reallocation of personal into areas they have little to zero expertise. Which is foolish and unwise.

#11 Twilight Fenrir

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 05:57 AM

Mechs pay for everything else in the game. Without mechpacks, we won't see further development.

And as has been stated before, they have people who do mechs, and they have people who do everything else. Working on one doesn't slow down the other. We've gotten a LOT of changes in the last 2 months >_> They were a long time coming, but they are significant. The overhauls of the UI? Whether you like them better or not, are a significant chunk of change. The reworks to CW, new equipment in the MASC. We'll have a physics engine next month for trees and crap...

The game is getting deeper like crazy right now. Just because the exact things YOU want aren't in it, doesn't mean progress isn't happening.

#12 Endurance2012

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 07:49 AM

Too many mechs for a few maps is boring. Get more maps please.

#13 Ironwithin

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 07:52 AM

View PostEndurance2012, on 17 June 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

Too many mechs for a few maps is boring. Get more maps please.


They are reworking the smaller, old maps right now.

#14 Summon3r

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 08:07 AM

View PostIronwithin, on 16 June 2015 - 03:45 PM, said:

So you're saying you want the 3D-artists working on the game-code and the concept-artists fiddling around with AI for bots/NPCs ?
What could possibly go wrong there...


lol cause the current programming and coding is "pro" , "we cant make changeable LBX ammo cause the guy that coded that left" lol?

#15 Exarch Levin

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Posted 19 June 2015 - 01:21 PM

View PostIronwithin, on 17 June 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:


They are reworking the smaller, old maps right now.

I'd prefer new maps, and preferably some procedurally-generated maps for CW.

#16 Idealsuspect

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 03:09 AM

View PostExarch Levin, on 19 June 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

I'd prefer new maps, and preferably some procedurally-generated maps for CW.


Yea exactly ... in fact reworking small maps should be ONLY a bonus while they keep putting news maps, maybe news game modes, some reals tutorials inside the game and further re-thinking the learning curve by giving to new players still cadet a dedicated cadet queue for not being rollstomp by MM and for not waste others veterans games when MM totally fail ... ( thing which happend OFTEN ).

OH WAIT thoses things don't put money for PGI and IGP ^^ but it should give this game something it really miss ... A STRONG POPULATION >>> and in fine money, more money ....

#17 IraqiWalker

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 06:18 AM

View PostShadowSpirit, on 16 June 2015 - 06:23 PM, said:


Yes. Absolutely. They need to do something other than what they're doing right now.



I'm just saying they're not focusing where they need to focus. This game has been out a _very long time_ and the new player experience is complete garbage.


This is dumb, and I don't say this lightly.

The 3D modelers are focusing on what they should be focusing on. What the hell are they going to do for NPE? They're not even needed for the tutorials. Their whole job, and skill set is centered around CREATING NEW 3D ASSETS, AND MODELS. A tutorial won't need those. You'll be in an environment using the existing assets that the modelers created forever ago.

Now those who are coding AI, and coded the first tutorial are the people you want working on NPE, not some guy who's job has nothing to do with it. The art team doesn't need to be involved with the NPE. The map design team doesn't need to be involved with the NPE. These are facts. None of these people have anything helpful here.

A Tutorial is just a running script. Maybe even a video ,which we have tons of. One of the best things PGI can do for the NPE is update the videos they have in the Training Grounds section of this website, and find a good way to guide new players to it.

View PostShadowSpirit, on 16 June 2015 - 11:59 PM, said:


You're telling me that New Player Experience wouldn't require 3D modeling, testers, et al.? No wonder it sucks so bad. The community defends this? LOL


Yup, the NPE does not need 3D modelers. How much do you actually know about these things, because right now, you're not giving yourself any checks in the credibility department. Also, the community isn't defending this, we've been calling for an improved NPE for a long time. We're just telling you that you're wrong.

View PostExarch Levin, on 19 June 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

I'd prefer new maps, and preferably some procedurally-generated maps for CW.


Yeah, do you know how virtually impossible it is to do procedurally generated maps on cry-engine? This isn't Minecraft where the graphics are a step above 8 bits, and the processor taxation is manageable. To generate a procedural map as big as the current river city, would freeze most of our machines for a solid half hour+. That's if people don't crash out. Log out, or go do something else altogether.

It's a neat idea, but unless you're working with crap graphics, procedurally generated maps won't be a thing in MWO.

View PostIdealsuspect, on 21 June 2015 - 03:09 AM, said:

OH WAIT thoses things don't put money for PGI and IGP ^^ but it should give this game something it really miss ... A STRONG POPULATION >>> and in fine money, more money ....

Are you from the past? IGP split a LOOOOOOONG time ago, and things have been improving ever since. I don't even know what the last sentence even means.

#18 Wildstreak

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 07:47 AM

What should the art department do?
How about map passes? We are getting a new River City, Forest Colony (and I presume Snow also?) is getting a do over.
Remember the passes on old Mechs? Last thing we have seen is the Jager getting a Ballistics pass, what was before that and how long? Resize the Awesome, Trebuchet, Quickdraw, others. Fix other problems such as the Hunchback's Hunch issues.
How about those folk who want the option to use larger textures that can be turned off by those on lower systems?
Destructible terrain.
There's plenty for the art department to do, they do not need to code.

#19 ChapeL

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 08:06 AM

PGI needs income... thus they will always need more mechs for us to buy. It's that simple. It's not about greed or "cash grabs" or whatever other catch phrase people want to demonize them with, it's about getting revenue to offset the expenses of maintaining and developping this game.

Edited by ChapeL, 21 June 2015 - 08:06 AM.


#20 Gallowglas

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 09:54 AM

View Postjackal40, on 16 June 2015 - 04:35 PM, said:

Put them to work play testing, developing tutorials, and the like. We need those too. I doubt anyone expects them to code, but maybe they can do other things that are sorely needed.


No offense, but it's clear from this you've not worked in the IT field. That's like telling a heart surgeon he should be treating cancer patients since there's a backlog for treatment. Different IT professionals often have entirely different skillsets.

View PostExarch Levin, on 19 June 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

I'd prefer new maps, and preferably some procedurally-generated maps for CW.


People say they want procedurally generated maps, but I sincerely doubt people would be happy with the outcome. You'd likely end up with a lot more buggy geometry, some awful map balance, and potentially some game-breaking issues when human intervention isn't involved.





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