22 replies to this topic

[Katotonic]

Hi all,

I tend to ask this for all new mechs that peak my interest as I usually am not an early adopter due to limited play time and budget so I like to live vicariously through other people. That said, I am looking for and have not found a thorough review of the Executioner yet.

I am not really looking for builds, although I know that plays a roll and is part of it, but more: how does it handle? what role(s) do people feel it is best at? How does it compare with other mechs? Does it feel "fun" or do people tend to struggle with it? How are the hit boxes? Does it feel under or over armored? How is the speed relative to other mechs and relative to what you are trying to do with it? How are the hardpoints positioned? Etc.

So if anyone has any thoughts along these lines please share them!

[JRR1285]

I have only used the Prime and B variants thus far so I don't have a full impression on all of them yet. I CAN say that MASC is incredibly fun and the EXE feels super agile to me. The jump jets could be a little more powerful but they do the job in most situations so far. The hardpoints on some of the variants are sparse so it is geared more towards heavier weapons which for me is just fine. The A and D have bit more hardpoints but the D is mostly energy with a couple of missiles.

The last game I played in my EXE-B I had 5 kills and just over 500 damage. I hung out with my team for a while and kept hitting with the AC/20, PPC and medium laser when I could. Once the match had gone a little long and the enemies were "softened" I started darting in and out of cover using MASC to close distance and managed to kill what was left of the enemy team in a couple of minutes. It was very fun lol.

Personally the EXE is one of my favorite 'mechs currently in the game. I can't wait to unlock speed tweak and unleash its full potential. Is it a competitive 'mech? I have no idea but from what I've heard it is not. BUT... it's fun for me in PUG matches and that's where I spend most of my time being a casual player.

Edited by JRR1285, 26 June 2015 - 08:51 AM.

[J0anna]

So I haven't finished mastering them yet, but I am close. Some observations:

MASC is well implemented and is quite a bit of fun. You can't abuse it since it takes a while to replenish, but as a quick burst or a last resort it's useful.

The JJ's are pretty worthless atm. Hopefully the next patch will give them a boost, but as of now they are just wasted weight.

Hit boxes aren't that good. You "backpack" is actually part of your back armor, so it is quite possible to get hit in the front and take back damage (don't know if that is a bug or a feature). On the otherhand, it is easy to spread damage, so that's a plus.

Hard points are a mixed bag, the torso ones are uniformly high so are pretty good. The arm hardpoints are low. Sadly the only missile hardpoints are in the "D" left arm, also only the "D" left torso can carry a weapon (i.e. you want the "D"). The torso ballistics are limited by having an installed Heatsink there, so no LBX-20 or (U)AC-20, but the prime left arm can carry one. Most of my setups use the torso's for ranged stuff and the arms for brawling weapons. Setup correctly it can put up some good damage numbers.

As was said before, it isn't meta, but is fun and MASC makes it kind of unique.

[Wildstreak]

Fun, yes. I played a couple of mine for the first time last night, getting into a match with an Assault is long compared to a Medium or Light and the Heavies are worse, part of why I have not tried my Ebons yet. Still, I tried to two I thought would do well and they did.

MASC has tricks to it but one thing it does well, it makes up for not having Kinetic Burst, Hard Brake and Anchor Turn unlocked. You can only use it a limited time but it still works good.
Want to peek out, shoot then duck back? Aim where you are going, maybe MASC up to your spot (don't need MASC here), shoot, use MASC while moving backwards under cover, lessens how much damage you take especially from Missiles even on more open maps.
Know all those times you needed to use JJs to climb a slope and lost speed? MASC actually helps some slope climbing better and no speed loss.
See an ally in trouble? MASC burst over for the assist.
So long as you learn when to and not to use MASC, it will do you good. I can see where the game would become unbalanced if anyone could equip it to anything.

MASC does raise the JJ issue again since the first gives more mobility than the second. The JJs are not that hot though I still have to unlock Speed Tweak. Still you have to wonder why it takes a second system like MASC to make JJs useful.

You have to really choose weapons that count since there is not much room.
Ballistic torso mounts cannot carry any type of AC20 due to fixed equipment though all others fit. Gauss means only 1PPC or some other weapons.
If you want Streaks, only one arm mount. Did not look into an LRM boat. While you can mount big Energy, too much will give you heat issues. The 7 Energy Fist of Doom is too much if you try to fill it all. Even 7 cERSL on the A using all 7 mounts there builds up heat.

People need to learn Oblique Attacks to make use of the short torso twist range. If you want a Shield Arm, the RA is the better choice due to the high shoulder shield. This may result in a lot of use of the D LT for those who mix omnipods, also provides the only high LT weapon mount. CT does not feel as weak as people said when it first came out but still a good idea to protect it.

For the same weight, the Banshee is the slow tank bristling with weapons while the Executioner is the faster one with precision attacks.

Edited by Wildstreak, 26 June 2015 - 10:45 AM.

[Scout Derek]

A mech that was made for pugging, in my opinion. It's fun once you get the hang of it, as MASC is a little speed boost that's fun and effective to use.

I've mastered them all already, but there are a few flaws with it:

It's torso turn can only turn 90 degrees just about when mastered, and thus is hard to shield your back when running.

Low slung arms prevent it from doing any poking with the arms.

This mech can take some punishment, but is still a bit of a torso magnet even after fix.

Here's the pro's:

Once you get the D omnipods, you can effectively make better builds, such as 6 mediums and a Gauss rifle, 4 energy in one arm, and 2 in the torsos.

MASC is a effective tool for escaping, making turns, and poking.

It's D omnipods in the torsos allow for poking and running back quickly with MASC.

This mech is made for brawling, with the left arm, the right arm, or it's torsos.


I like running 6 mediums lbx 20. I have a video where I get 4 kills and around 600 damage.

For armor and mobility it's just a banshee with more hardpoints per limb and jump jets. Sadly enough La Malinche was supposed to have jump jets, but they were canceled :/

[Tastian]

I'm still working on the all 4. I just finished Basic and Speed Tweak with all 4 of them. My thoughts:

MASC, in general, is great. Nice implementation PGI. Jump Jets on assaults is sluggish and wasteful. With a massive 380XL engine, the Executioner is already speedier then every other 90-100 ton assault. I could see wanting MASC on an Atlas, Banshee or Dire where you are extremely slow. But with so much weight in a 380XL, I'd move the 4 tons of MASC and 8 tons of jump jets to weapons. Then, you'd have the Clan equivalent to a Banshee.

I will say this though. MASC plus 380 engine makes getting left behind with the other whales not happen.

You will definitely lose a face off against any other assault.

All that being said, my best build currently is 2xUAC5 in the high mounted torso with 4xER Mediums in the arm. The constant pounding of the UAC5s makes face offs against others with slower weapons like SRM6s, Gauss, AC20s, and PPC a little nicer. They sometimes turn away out of fear of the dakka.

[Bloodweaver]

Katotonic, on 26 June 2015 - 05:40 AM, said:

how does it handle?

Wonderfully! MASC is amazing. Not only in how useful it is, but in the fact that it is SO much fun without being overpowered. It's a very large investment for a 'Mech/engine that size, but so rewarding to use at the same time.

The only aspects of mobility that could (and which probably should) be improved are torso twisting and arm movement. Torso twist is a bit limited. Not gimpingly so, but it is noticeable enough to be an annoyance in some brawls. This probably should be improved.

As for the arms, it would be nice if more of the EXE's arm pods had the option for a lower arm actuator. As it stands right now, only two of the EXE's right arm pods can mount one, and only one of its left arm pods can. All other arm pods are forced into vertical movement only. This becomes especially detrimental when combined with the 'Mech's already-limited torso twist.

Katotonic, on 26 June 2015 - 05:40 AM, said:

what role(s) do people feel it is best at?

Cavalry. Fast-moving, resilient weapons platform that can respond to changing hot-zones in any established field of engagement. Does well brawling, and due to MASC is currently the best corner-peeker in the game.

Katotonic, on 26 June 2015 - 05:40 AM, said:

How does it compare with other mechs?

Several here have compared it the Banshee. There is some valid comparison there, but purely in terms of loadouts, and not accounting for agility, I find it more akin to a Highlander from back in the days when Highlanders were good. There's a lot of focus on arm weaponry (as with most Clan 'Mechs) and you can usually choose either big alphas or good heat efficiency, but not both. You also have good asymmetric build options, and JJs are core to using your low-slung weapons to their maximum potential.

Katotonic, on 26 June 2015 - 05:40 AM, said:

Does it feel "fun" or do people tend to struggle with it?

Oh my, fun, yes, absolutely. One of the most fun 'Mechs in the game for me. And that is 90% just because of MASC. I love it also because I like the model, I like assaults, and I like Clan stuff. But the MASC alone is a blast even outside of those factors.

Katotonic, on 26 June 2015 - 05:40 AM, said:

ow are the hit boxes? Does it feel under or over armored?

Hitboxes are poor. It's on the 'Mech's glaring weaknesses. When first released its CT was unforgivably easy to hit. A fix was released, but the CT still soaks up most hits. In fact you could probably lower your STs' armor quite a bit without having to worry about losing them, seeing as both your CT and your arms are significantly larger.

Katotonic, on 26 June 2015 - 05:40 AM, said:

How is the speed relative to other mechs and relative to what you are trying to do with it?

Speed alone is only a small factor. The main benefit of MASC is not the speed upgrade, it is the boosts to turning and (especially) acceleration. You go from 0 to top speed in a fraction of a second. And that is fantastically useful.

Katotonic, on 26 June 2015 - 05:40 AM, said:

How are the hardpoints positioned? Etc.

Poorly, unless you stick to brawling loadouts. I personally don't mind low-slung hardpoints, as I tend to like jetting around and such, but they are objectively disadvantaged. This pill wouldn't sting quite so much if the EXE could move its arms sideways a bit more often, as noted previously.

Edited by Bloodweaver, 26 June 2015 - 12:09 PM.

[Wildstreak]

Bloodweaver, on 26 June 2015 - 12:03 PM, said:

As for the arms, it would be nice if more of the EXE's arm pods had the option for a lower arm actuator. As it stands right now, only two of the EXE's right arm pods can mount one, and only one of its left arm pods can. All other arm pods are forced into vertical movement only. This becomes especially detrimental when combined with the 'Mech's already-limited torso twist.

I wonder if that is a bug, it just seems odd.

[Shalune]

I've been spending a lot of time in my Executioners, and from what I've seen a large majority of people playing them are missing the point. So I'll do my best to objectively run through what it's all about.

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What You've Already Heard

The popular consensus seems to be that it is fun, highly maneuverable with MASC, but has poor survivability and good, but not noteworthy firepower.

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What I've Seen

The Executioner can actually dominate games with the right build and play style. It does require you to be very aware of your surroundings, use MASC in unusual ways, and play radically differently than most popular assaults. My assumption is this why it's gotten a lukewarm reception.

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===================================
Mech Breakdown
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What's Exe's Role?

Your job is to play like the scariest, but bulkiest, heavy mech the world has ever seen. You are the cavalry. You lead the charge, but just like actual cavalry you generally want to avoid charging head on into the front line.

Use your speed to get at the enemy's flank, and you can often kill 3+ mechs without ever stopping moving forward.

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Handling

This is the obvious strength of the mech. You probably already know this. What you might now know is just -how- good it actually is. Consider that most people have not elited their mechs yet. Importantly, all assaults start with pretty meh handling and especially twist. Elited, the Exe is actually fairly capable at twisting to spread damage.

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Handling

Everyone knows MASC is cool, and fun. But I get the sense a lot are missing just how big of a game changer it is on an assault mech.

If you are primarily using MASC as a sprint, you're using it wrong. Assault mechs turn, stop, and start like a semi and can lose half their speed on tiny divots in the ground. Using MASC in 1-2 second bursts you can -completely- negate this.

What this means is you can afford to get into and out of situations with minimal damage the way a clan heavy or medium can. No longer do you have to cautiously plan exactly where you're going to be relative to both teams a minute or more in advance. You can afford to swing out to the flanks, and more.

You'd also be surprised at just how much faster you get to the front too. It's not just your massive engine, but that you can ignore the dips to 50% speed assaults get going up ramps and bumps.

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Geometry / Chassis

You're huge. This is the genuine lowpoint of the mech. You're huge, and a lot of your guns are low. You must play with the knowledge you're easy to spot and hit. And you need to always try to approach enemies laterally instead of cresting hills which plays to your disadvantage.

BUT

The hitboxes are actually above average. You can reasonably protect your CT since the buff, and even then you're a clan mech with no CT weapons. So all you care about is losing 1 ST before CT, not both. Your right shoulder is surprisingly large too and can soak a lot if used right.

I think a lot of the misconceptions here come from (A) it being so bad at launch, and ( people are falling into old clan build habits that give them long burn lasers that limit how often you can twist.

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Weaponry

That brings me to this point of confusion. Most Exes I see on the field are running builds I've seen on other clan mechs before. They're pretty good, but they're hot, and they can fit on a TBR too.

As an Executioner pilot your strength is in your ability to get in close and bully down opponents with a unique combination of speed, sustained dps, and durability. The "sustained" part of dps is the key.

If you're running 2x LPL and some ER ML, you're going to overheat quickly with sustained fire. These kinds of builds are strong in MWO, but meant to poke enemies down. If you get in close using this on an Exe you're playing to the build's weakness, and if you play at range you could just take a lighter mech.

Instead you want to build your Exe like an IS light or medium. Get the smallest most efficient lasers you can, and even mix in some SRMs if you want. Since it's clan side, always use pulse to make up for the tech gap with IS. By staying lightweight you'll be able to stack DHS to keep your fire up constantly. And your combined speed and durability mean that even SPL's range is not a hindrance to you.

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How Does it All Fit Together?

If you get yourself in the right place at the right time, you are as devastating as 2 TDR-5SS in one. I can't call myself an expert in Exes, having been out under 2 weeks, but I never feel ineffective. I've carried several of my 41 games, already cleared 1k damage in one, and despite a lot of weapons experimentation and learning already have an even or positive K:D ratio in all 4 Exes.

You can out-DPS almost any mech in the game, including many DWFs when heat and accuracy to CT is accounted for. Even then, you can easily out-maneuver other assaults with bursts of MASC. It can 1v1 almost any mech in the game, the one notable weakness being fast long range mechs like Stormcrows and Ravens. Even then you can catch them off guard and burst them down, or just avoid fighting them.

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Should You Get One? (whether now or when it's out for cbills)

Okay, this is tricky. I actually think it's not a good mech for most people.

You can tell I'm a huge fan of this mech, but I'm also usually not an assault pilot. My playstyle favors heavily armed mediums. The only asssault mechs I enjoy playing, and am any good in are Exes, Gargoyles, and the 1 Zeus I have.

The Exe does not play like a typical assault, and will turn off people that try to treat it like one. It's also a difficult style to master that uses a lot of techniques that have been downplayed since clans hit the scene (see: brawling skill set).

If you love the TDR-5SS or SPL FS weapons loadout, and miss the days of playing CN9-As and HBK-4SPs when they were competitive this might be the mech you've been waiting for. For most everyone else I'd say at least wait until it's out for cbills.

[TheLuc]

From playing around in smurfy, what I seen so far the EXE seem very suited to be a laser boat, per exemple

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1677048f879a3bc

but as Shalune wrote, also falls under the old habit of clan mech setups. if really very high DPS is key for this mech I cant tell since I didnt been under fire by one

Edited by TheLuc, 30 June 2015 - 01:27 AM.

[Wildstreak]

TheLuc, on 30 June 2015 - 01:15 AM, said:

From playing around in smurfy, what I seen so far the EXE seem very suited to be a laser boat, per exemple

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1677048f879a3bc

but as Shalune wrote, also falls under the old habit of clan mech setups. if really very high DPS is key for this mech I cant tell since I didnt been under fire by one

Well, you could always modify your build into an EXE version of a 5SS.

Or give a mix of medium and short range DPS.

Edited by Wildstreak, 30 June 2015 - 11:36 AM.

[Shalune]

I love seeing what other people are experimenting with here. I'll have to try that LPL SPL mix some time.

As for context for my post, this is by far the most effective build I've used http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fafa7654fe595bb TC and cAP because spare tonnage, and I'm a sucker for target acquisition time. I even have the module.

[Pezzer]

Just posted a guide if you still want some help: http://mwomercs.com/...ing-executions/

[Arctcwolf]

3x ER Lrg, 6x ER Sml, 2x MG

play a good heat management game, and u have an effective sniper in most cases, with a short range game that is consistent and long lasting. nothing should get close to you without being exposed in at least 1 torso slot, making effective use of MG's.

definitely better than the gargoyle, but does need to be played like a summoner.

[Wildstreak]

I still want to know why I cannot access EXE-D and EBJ-C Omnipods for other variants, yes I have all 4 of each Mech.

[Hit the Deck]

Wildstreak, on 08 July 2015 - 05:31 AM, said:

I still want to know why I cannot access EXE-D and EBJ-C Omnipods for other variants, yes I have all 4 of each Mech.

Because they are early adopter exclusive and you can get only one.

[Luscious Dan]

The Koala is a strange beast, even without access to any of the D pods.

First match in one was using an odd build since I was too lazy to look anything up or spend C-bills, and I just wanted to drop. ERPPC and LPL in one arm, 4 ERSL in the other. The rest was just TC and DHS. Ended up on 965 dmg and I got the final 3 kills as me and a Victor ran the table for the comeback win. My tally was a King Crab, Jager, Atlas and solo kill on a fresh Tbolt late in that game.

MASC is ridiculous. With a tap of my MASC button every time I stop, reverse direction, or turn sharply, it almost never fills the heat bar and it gets me out of all kinds of messes. My favorite builds mostly involve UAC5s and ERMLs, thought the LPL is also a good fit for this mech. You want to keep your beam durations to a minimum, peek/poke/roll your torso like a boss, and be able to push sustained DPS to finish off enemies once you open them up. 400-600 metres is a fun distance, and UAC5/ML setups do well in this range band.

I don't much like assaults, but my KD ratios in this thing are nuts. My prime and A are around 1.8-2.5 depending on any streaks (it's probably just a coincidence, but the Koala seems to get giant streaks of one-sided games, for or against, though I seem to get fairly steady kills even when we get stomped), while my B has been maintaining a ratio over 3.0... nothing else in my mech bays are even close to matching this. I think the B started at like 11-1 on kills while starting the basics. Obviously came down over dozens of matches.

I chalk a lot of this up to my experience piloting lights and mediums pretty exclusively for a long time. This thing has the handling of a much lighter mech, with far more armor. If they ever unlock the jump jets, look out. A few more tons of weapons/ammo would be rowdy.

Edited by Luscious Dan, 09 July 2015 - 07:47 AM.

[Kain Demos]

I am surprised to see so many positive reviews on MASC---my first thoughts were disappointment. I like the way that they implemented it, that's for sure but going from 71 to 85 for just a few seconds doesn't really increase the distance moved in that amount of time as much as you would think. They also greatly reduced the raw value of the speed boost from TT.

I would not go so far as to call it useless--if you need to get started in a hurry or change directions it sure comes in handy but it isn't going to let you escape a situation that you couldn't escape without MASC. I think the damage threshold should be at 90%--why have 25% of the bar not in use? In the training grounds I went close to 100% just to see if I would survive and the answer is no.

At this point it is another omnimech locked item that I would rather do without. For its tonnage I don't think its worth it. Maybe if the threshold was 90%, it regenerated a bit faster, and the speed boost closer to what it should be I would keep it but as-is I find it not worth the tonnage.

Edited by Kain Demos, 10 July 2015 - 09:30 AM.

[Luscious Dan]

It's not there for the speed boost, but for virtually instantaneous acceleration/deceleration, and better turning radius.

The video demonstrates a "panic moonwalk" maneuver with and without MASC, and the difference is night and day. Makes peeking/poking around buildings and hills a lot easier for a big fat 95-tonner.

Side note: I think my B was back up to around 3.50 KD ratio after last night. And the Prime remains cursed, where every drop I kill 1-2 and we get slaughtered like 12-3 at best. Worst one was a classic 12-1 NASCAR defeat on Caustic, where our team scattered in all directions and then you could see the blue triangles disappearing one after another from the radar in a perfect counter clockwise pattern every couple seconds. I solo killed a light before his 11 friends turned the corner on me

I'm really looking forward to the Shadow Cat, which will be capable of playing a similar game to the Koala, except with more speed, meaningful jump jets, and ecm in a 45-ton package. A little light on ammo for the gauss variants, but I think this thing will become a pest.

Edited by Luscious Dan, 10 July 2015 - 10:11 AM.

[Kain Demos]

Luscious Dan, on 10 July 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

It's not there for the speed boost, but for virtually instantaneous acceleration/deceleration, and better turning radius.

The video demonstrates a "panic moonwalk" maneuver with and without MASC, and the difference is night and day. Makes peeking/poking around buildings and hills a lot easier for a big fat 95 tonner.

Side note: I think my B was back up to around 3.50 KD ratio after last night. And the Prime remains cursed, where every drop I kill 1-2 and we get slaughtered like 12-3 at best. Worst one was an epic NASCAR defeat on Caustic, where our team scattered in all directions and then you could see the blue triangles disappearing one after another from the radar in a perfect counter clockwise pattern every couple seconds. I solo killed a light before his 11 friends turned the corner on me

That's my point--MASC has always been about the speed boost and here it is not.

The 25% faster turn rate I don't think does much for the turn radius since you are also moving faster.

Edited by Kain Demos, 10 July 2015 - 10:09 AM.