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Thos Is Why Ppl Dont Bring Their Large Mechs In Pugs


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#1 Plaguetongue

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 09:03 PM

you might have noticed there is a shortage in assault pilots in pugs, atleast compared to how it used to be.

this i blame on stupid light/medium pilots, why? well the way ppl seem to play their mediums and lights, follow the main group of hvy/assaults, squeeze your way up front, take a sweetspot and block all your large mechs off then stand there, get shot and die... over and over again.

let the damn firepower get up front, scout the enemy and seal the flanks. a light/medium is not supposed to stand in the front duking it out with heavies, thats just a waste of a team slot.

those who understand this stands behind us instead, blocking so we cant back out of the fire when taking too much heat. its kinda annoying some ppl are totally clueless how to play their mech.

Thanks for the word..

#2 Plaguetongue

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 10:08 PM



here is a good guide for you

#3 Nik Reaper

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 05:38 PM

While not untrue, didn't you ever kinda notice that in this game win =/ profit, instead the damage and kill net you the cbillz everyones after.

While you do reduce the win % by not doing the optimal thing for the team if you don't pack long range and can't ridge peak with high mounts for a medium to do well in a game you need those corners as much as the assaults, even more so as you can back up faster, the assaults should be doing pushes or suppressive fire as most of them are slow so not the best at corner peaking...

More so the ones most effective at a given range should be placed to the front , not just genericly assault unless they are prepareing for a push or are the best option, ( an brawler atlas is near useless at 500m city fight unless he charges while a 6LL stalker works just fine )

And finally the reason assault aren't as popular is that there are clan heavys that have as much firepower as they do but more speed, and in PUG land speed is life as you never know when your team will randomly decide to reposition without a word or a letter in chat, or decide to do a nascar leaving you at it's rear to be picked off by enemy lights, and IS assaults just aren't fast without xl engines wich only a few can do with relative success , like the battlemaster and victor ( wich still have about or less firepower than some clan heavys ).

So it is clear that most ( with exceptions ) assaults only excell at taking damage ( as there firepower can be matched by smaller faster mechs ) and who has fun tanking with only one life and no incentive for damage taken, and yes they can charge like a boss , but only when the team fallows and in PUG land not even sure if that's 50% of the time.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 27 June 2015 - 05:39 PM.


#4 InspectorG

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 10:22 PM

Assaults and Lights are the harder mechs to pilot.

Lights are easily legged or one-shotted.

Assaults have to be very conscious about positioning, they get in a bad spot, they aint getting out very quickly.

Mediums and Heavies have the more friendly blend of firepower and mobility.

#5 purplewasabi

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 07:08 AM

View PostInspectorG, on 27 June 2015 - 10:22 PM, said:

Assaults and Lights are the harder mechs to pilot.

Lights are easily legged or one-shotted.

Assaults have to be very conscious about positioning, they get in a bad spot, they aint getting out very quickly.

Mediums and Heavies have the more friendly blend of firepower and mobility.

I agree with the statement that lights and assaults are a little more difficult to handle, thus making them less popular. Assaults are my regular, so I kinda enjoy the shortage in assaults. I get into a game quicker.

I understand your frustration but I feel both parties are at fault. Most often I see assaults putting themselves in those bad situations, too many poor decisions made, myself included. A simple solution is to communicate. A little shout out through VoIP often helps, text chat if you're shy. I'm shameless so I shout all the time.

NickReaper mentioned speed. Assuming solo pug queue. If nascar happens and you get left behind, it's entirely your fault because you failed to recognize the environment you're in. If you're running below 60kph, you're just asking for it. You become a liability to the team.

If communication fails, then don't be surprise when the team fails.

Edited by purplewasabi, 28 June 2015 - 07:09 AM.


#6 Nik Reaper

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 08:14 AM

Though there is more to it than just that, no IS assault goes ~70kph with out a large XL and if you main assaults you know that there are a number of spown points in wich if you spown an assault and the team decides to ignore you even after you say you need support to rejoin the team you will die... or be half of a mech by the time the main battle starts.

Using assaults that aren't as fast as heavys ( in wich case they have the firepower of heavys but more armor and less agility ) is the same as using a brawling setup in pugs, puting you mostly at the luck of the draw of the map, spown point and team disposition, where as using a fast longer range , high mounted heavy/med leaves you with options in all circumstances.

You can say that teamwork solves all problems but if it's pugs we'r talking about then it's many times as hard , and takes many times the effort that may or may not pay off to heard the cats in the direction you think they need to go and at the right time.
I for the most part stopped playing my Heavy metal that goes 64kph as I found that it's just not worth the effort if compared to what I can on average get in the same situation and effort in an arrow... And if the numbers are as you say I would think that most other solo players noticed the same.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 28 June 2015 - 08:16 AM.


#7 bad arcade kitty

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 08:31 AM

View PostNik Reaper, on 28 June 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

Using assaults that aren't as fast as heavys ( in wich case they have the firepower of heavys but more armor and less agility ) is the same as using a brawling setup in pugs, puting you mostly at the luck of the draw of the map, spown point and team disposition, where as using a fast longer range , high mounted heavy/med leaves you with options in all circumstances.


well, it's true for assaults but brawling isn't that bad on any map including alpine if you are in a fast mech (at least 89 kmh)

#8 Nik Reaper

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 08:41 AM

View Postbad arcade kitty, on 28 June 2015 - 08:31 AM, said:


well, it's true for assaults but brawling isn't that bad on any map including alpine if you are in a fast mech (at least 89 kmh)


True in part, but brawling is a team sport , and unless you find a stragler or a scout alone it's not something you can expect to do well by you'r self, and most pug teams are not the pushing kind , so if you need to goat your team to get in to a position that is good for you , well it's unreliable and takes a lot more effort, and when I want to chill in solo que I'm not there to be tryhard, group que is there for that, extra effort diminishes my fun and a lot of time yields no effect.
Sure you should use voip to notify the team of sightings or offer suggestions on who to focus and where to go... but if they don't feel inclined to listen to it , as you are not the boss of them, you can't make them and all the typing and talking ends for nought.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 28 June 2015 - 08:45 AM.


#9 purplewasabi

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 10:15 AM

View PostNik Reaper, on 28 June 2015 - 08:41 AM, said:


True in part, but brawling is a team sport , and unless you find a stragler or a scout alone it's not something you can expect to do well by you'r self, and most pug teams are not the pushing kind , so if you need to goat your team to get in to a position that is good for you , well it's unreliable and takes a lot more effort, and when I want to chill in solo que I'm not there to be tryhard, group que is there for that, extra effort diminishes my fun and a lot of time yields no effect.
Sure you should use voip to notify the team of sightings or offer suggestions on who to focus and where to go... but if they don't feel inclined to listen to it , as you are not the boss of them, you can't make them and all the typing and talking ends for nought.


I'm a big believer of teamwork, even in the solo queues. I feel we are of different playstyles, so I'm going to keep it short. Call me a try hard because I'm always putting in 100% effort, in both solo and group queues alike.

Like I said, piloting lights and assaults are slightly more difficult that other weight classes because they require more effort. If you can't put in the effort, and just want to chill, best avoid the assault weight class because you'll just be letting your team down. I'm not sure about the highlanders, but my Atlases seem to hold their own, with the fastest variant going at 62kph. All built specifically for the solo pug queue.

If I want to chill, I'll just do something else...

#10 Nik Reaper

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 10:26 AM

Fair enough :) , but keep in mind that it's not just about other players taking corners from assaults or blocking them that make them less desirable in solo que.

#11 Thrudvangar

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 10:39 AM

i just kill blocking lights or even leg them so they will die a horrible death....
also doing it to those idiots who think they need to teast out their alphas into my back at the beginning of a game. Screw them, kill them and either they learn about it or won't take up any drop spot while leaving ;)

#12 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 10:56 AM

Assaults usualy have more than double the percentage in the queue that Lights do, Assaults and Mediums are usualy between 20 and 36%, heavies almost always have at least 30% of the population, lights are usualy somewhere between 5 and 20%.

Once I saw Lights past 50%, that was immediately (as in about 15 minutes) after the Urbanmech was patched in, unless a new Light Mech has just been released it is rare for me to see lights above 20% and it is rare to see assaults below 20%, there are almost always at least 2 assaults in the match, therefore I do not think there is any problem with the Assault population unlike the Light population where it is quite common for me to be the only Light pilot in the match and if I take another weight class about 1 game in 5 there will not be any Lights.

#13 Void Angel

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 02:45 PM

View PostNik Reaper, on 27 June 2015 - 05:38 PM, said:

While you do reduce the win % by not doing the optimal thing for the team if you don't pack long range and can't ridge peak with high mounts for a medium to do well in a game you need those corners as much as the assaults, even more so as you can back up faster, the assaults should be doing pushes or suppressive fire as most of them are slow so not the best at corner peaking...


While I do agree with much of the rest of your post, I'm not sanguine about this point. A medium can and should use corners - but he doesn't have to stand in everyone's way, or even out in front. A very effective way to play a Medium on corners is to back away from the corner and let larger 'mechs through, then react to what they do - or to what happens to them. A corner is nothing more than a means of approach which allows a player to quickly move in and out of a line of sight. You can use it from 60-100m back from the actual corner and still let the bigger, slower 'mechs do their part - your ideal engagement as a Medium is against enemies who are engaging your teammates.

Part of this is that the OP stopped short of a dissertation on teamwork and tactics - but it bears mentioning that while you can get some individually better-earning matches by doing counterproductive, screw-the-team things, the best c-bill earning practices overall are also winning tactics.

#14 Wildstreak

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 03:35 PM

View PostPlaguetongue, on 26 June 2015 - 09:03 PM, said:

you might have noticed there is a shortage in assault pilots in pugs, atleast compared to how it used to be.

Note the Heavy queue qt 40%+ usually, Ebon Jaguar release and Reinforcements that were in the GIft Store.
Wait until July when it shifts to Lights & Mediums, all the Arctic Cheetahs and Shadow Cats.

View PostNik Reaper, on 27 June 2015 - 05:38 PM, said:

While not untrue, didn't you ever kinda notice that in this game win =/ profit, instead the damage and kill net you the cbillz everyones after.

Not entirely true, UAV, Flanking, Hit & Run bonuses all pile on to the Pirtae's Bane and Sparky I am running this weekend along with Premium Time almost done for fat profits.

#15 Nik Reaper

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 05:01 PM

View PostWildstreak, on 28 June 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:


...

Not entirely true, UAV, Flanking, Hit & Run bonuses all pile on to the Pirtae's Bane and Sparky I am running this weekend along with Premium Time almost done for fat profits.


Well to be fair , with a hero and premium even losing is fun :) , with a normal mech and no premium a UAV doesn't pay for it's self im most cases , instead it's there to win or to get xp when leveling a mech, +/- 40k is not a small amount of ingame effort.

#16 Clydewinder

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 07:04 PM

I blame skirmish mode NASCAR

#17 Mad Dog Morgan

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 07:07 PM

Is thos riel lief? Is thos reality?

#18 mailin

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 07:27 PM

Another problem in the PUG queue at least is assaults who don't move. Numerous times I have been on voip prodding my assaults to move. Instead, they stand there at the rear and try to snipe with their gauss rifles or firing lrms. Put some AC20s on those bad boys or pack some srm 6s and punch the enemy in the face!

Recently I dropped with someone in a Dire Wolf who had a bunch of AC2s and small lasers. He was the last one of our team left and the whole time I observed him he was backing up.

If I throw up a UAV over the enemy there are a couple things that people seem to forget. Not only are they good for lrm carriers to lock, but the also point out enemy mechs, so you don't have to try to find them They're by the UAV. If the UAV gets shot down, it's hard to believe but the enemy is actually STILL there.

I think there may be a lot of newish players who drop in assaults because they want to kick some serious butt. The problem is that they take either sniping weapons or lrms, or worse, take weapons that aren't even that good for sniping like medium lasers, and then stand at the back as if they don't want to get their new car scratched. Meanwhile the rest of the team engages the enemy thinking that the assaults are just slow, which they are. But no, they've actually stopped and woe to the poor soul who tries to get them moving.

In MWO patience is important, but so is knowing when to get in there and engage the enemy. The time for doing that is when the enemy is outnumbered in one area and caught off balance. By the assaults not getting in there, the enemy has time to regroup, gather in one spot and overwhelm and take out those pesky mediums and heavies. I've seen it time and time again.

Edited by mailin, 29 June 2015 - 07:36 PM.


#19 Dawnstealer

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 07:29 PM

I also make sure even my 100-tonners don't go slower than 60. That helps. My slowest Atlas moves at 62. You sacrifice a little firepower, but the ability to keep pace with the herd is more valuable in pugs.

#20 Navy Sixes

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Posted 30 June 2015 - 02:18 AM

View PostPlaguetongue, on 26 June 2015 - 09:03 PM, said:

you might have noticed there is a shortage in assault pilots in pugs, atleast compared to how it used to be.
...this i blame on stupid light/medium pilots,

Really? I blame it on 3x4. We were supposed to get tonnage limits. You know why we didn't? Because the devs were worried about 6 Spider/6 Victor teams. Yeah, that's right. They figured everyone would go all light/assault. Which is among the reasons why I think this...

View PostInspectorG, on 27 June 2015 - 10:22 PM, said:

Assaults and Lights are the harder mechs to pilot.

is a pretty flawed statement.

View PostInspectorG, on 27 June 2015 - 10:22 PM, said:

Mediums and Heavies have the more friendly blend of firepower and mobility.

While heavies may have the "more friendly blend of firepower and mobility," mediums have a distinctly unfriendly blend of heavy/assault scale and light armor. The worst of all worlds, mediums -no matter how mobile- will never be as hard to hit as a fast light, and will never pack an effective "one-shot alpha" like the heavies and assaults. Mediums never have the speed. They never pack in enough heatsinks or ammo, and whatever they do manage to bring comes at the sacrifice of something else: three jumpjets or AMS or BAP? Pick one and forget the rest.

Leaving aside the Stormcrow, being a dedicated medium pilot is a thankless job. One mechwarrior in these forums called it "hard mode." If you see a medium (again, aside from the SC) performing well and carrying hard, it's more the pilot making it look easy than the medium mech outperforming the lights, heavies, and assaults around it.





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