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Crazy Idea To Improve The Game For All


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Poll: New Rewards Structure Proposal (4 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you think about the suggested rewards structure?

  1. It's good (1 votes [25.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

  2. It's bad, and you should feel bad (1 votes [25.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

  3. It needs tweaking (elaborate below) (1 votes [25.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

  4. Nope, how about my alternative? (elaborate below) (1 votes [25.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

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#1 IraqiWalker

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 11:41 PM

TL;DR:

2 rewards suggestions:

1- Remove all rewards, and only keep win/loss rewards (win get 180K, lose get 80K)

2- Remove all rewards, and only keep win/loss rewards (win get 180K, lose get 80K) + some weight class, and role specific bonus rewards.

Also, hide KDR from stats, or add assists.


The NOT TL;DR version:
I know this idea sounds crazy at first, I'm still thinking through it myself, but I figured I should toss it into the forums, and see what ideas you guys can come up with, and whether or not the idea is dumb or not.

The Problem(s):
non-existent role-warfare, and teammates shooting you in the back hungry for the kill rewards, while ignoring objectives.

The hypothesis:

Right now, there is no real role warfare. Any mech can perform all the roles, and the ones that get kills get rewarded the most, which means that pilots who try to play for the objective get no rewards.

So why not remove the incentives causing people to play like rabid maniacs? Make the only thing that really counts for rewards be the end result of the match.

With a flat reward for whether you won or lost + some bonuses based on your mech and equipment (role), people will be more encourage to play in diverse ways, aside from the common death ball.

Not to mention that in group play it really gives an escort mech a reason to be an escort mech, instead of thinking they are being shafted by their own team, since they'll get little to no rewards for being in the second line, waiting to chase away backstabbing lights that may never come.



I remember when we used to do group drops, and me being a light mech specialist, I end up assigned to (or leading) the group of lights that will bypass enemy lines, and screens, so we can get close to their base, wait until the main engagement happened, and then start the cap. The panic that ensues in the enemy team causes them to split, and have more than most of them turn their backs on the front line, which allows the rest of our team to march up, and gun them down quickly.

If they beat us in the slugfest, we win by cap, if they lost to the slugfest, we hunt the rest down. Me stepping on the cap was the critical move that turns the entire match around, yet I was rewarded with only 50K, or some such tiny number. For playing my role as an infiltrator and disrupter. It always made me feel like my contribution to the team was unappreciated, despite the risks I was taking, and the fact that I spend 5+ minutes of the entire match, waiting for the chips to fall in the right place, and trying to sneak around the enemy team, by my lonesome, or with one other mech.



Don't think this is about bringing back base rushes or something specific like that. I'm just saying that the rewards we have, don't encourage people to do anything other than dropping int he biggest mech possible, with as many guns as possible, because damage and kills are the only ways to get half-decent rewards.




The Solutions:

So I came up with 2 possible solutions (I'm leaning towards number 2 myself), that might help fix/alleviate the problem:

1- Remove all rewards, and only keep a flat rewards for winning, and losing (proposed 180K for winning, and 80K for losing. Feel free to adjust the numbers, folks.)

2- Remove all rewards, and put in the flat rewards for winning, and losing, and add mech, and role specific rewards

Win the match = 180,000 C-Bills Reward

Must never be inactive for more than 2 minutes to qualify for rewards.

Lose: 80,000 C-Bills reward (so you can at least break even if you used 2 modules)

These are flat rewards, with the role rewards added as a bonus on top of them, based on how you performed, so that performance still matters, regardless of kills.


Role rewards (need help from you folks for these):

For weight class:
Spoiler


For equipment:
Spoiler



Bonus reward for all pilots, in all mechs, and all roles: more C-Bills for each UAV shot down.

EDIT: Suggestion by WINTERSDARK: AMS rewards for each missile your AMS shoots down, that's targeting a friendly mech.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 29 June 2015 - 03:48 AM.


#2 Wintersdark

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 01:18 AM

I'm not opposed, but... I don't think it's likely. I get that you're just thinking out loud here, and it's a thought exercise more than anything, but this seems too far off the reservation for PGI to consider.

With that said, your last suggestion? Hell yes. Shooting down a UAV should be worth real $.

Also, I'd like to see a bonus for every missile your AMD shoots down that was targeting a friendly mech other than yourself.

#3 IraqiWalker

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 03:50 AM

View PostWintersdark, on 29 June 2015 - 01:18 AM, said:

I'm not opposed, but... I don't think it's likely. I get that you're just thinking out loud here, and it's a thought exercise more than anything, but this seems too far off the reservation for PGI to consider.

With that said, your last suggestion? Hell yes. Shooting down a UAV should be worth real $.

Also, I'd like to see a bonus for every missile your AMD shoots down that was targeting a friendly mech other than yourself.


Oh by all means. Tear into it. I don't mind it if people rip this idea a bunch of structurally superfluous new holes. I tossed this idea here to see what the community thought about it.

PGI most likely won't implement it, but if it gets enough traction, who knows? They might actually take a look at it.

#4 Wintersdark

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 03:57 AM

I think it has real merit. Rewarding win or loss only would play well towards reinforcing how victory is the goal, not some scoreboard.

But the real reason I don't think PGI would consider it is this:

For better or worse, PGI only moves forward. They've got several iterations in on the current reward system, so I think it's highly unlikely they'd even consider scrapping it and starting again as opposed to simply adjusting some values in a balancing pass.

With that said, a reduction in specific reward items and an increase in win/loss payout could be a viable middle ground.

#5 IraqiWalker

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 06:19 PM

View PostWintersdark, on 29 June 2015 - 03:57 AM, said:

I think it has real merit. Rewarding win or loss only would play well towards reinforcing how victory is the goal, not some scoreboard.

But the real reason I don't think PGI would consider it is this:

For better or worse, PGI only moves forward. They've got several iterations in on the current reward system, so I think it's highly unlikely they'd even consider scrapping it and starting again as opposed to simply adjusting some values in a balancing pass.

With that said, a reduction in specific reward items and an increase in win/loss payout could be a viable middle ground.


Honestly, I smacked myself right on my forehead when I thought of this idea. I was sitting there, wondering why is it that I really enjoyed the old Counterstrike game, and why it's atmosphere differed from MW:O (I still hold CS 1.6 as the standard by which all other FPSs should be measured), and I remembered that the rewards were really based on win/loss per round. We played as a team because win or lose, it happens as a team. The only reason you ever rushed for a kill was when trying to inflate your score for that round, because as soon as the full match is done, the scores are erased.

It's why I suggested we do this. Not because I think CS and MWO are similar, but because I think the reward structure we have causes most of the problems in player behavior. So the different reward structure might work.


I also still have a big gaping hole for where Heavy role rewards should be, and a way to deal with suiciders/leavers.

#6 Wintersdark

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 06:30 PM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 29 June 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:


Honestly, I smacked myself right on my forehead when I thought of this idea. I was sitting there, wondering why is it that I really enjoyed the old Counterstrike game, and why it's atmosphere differed from MW:O (I still hold CS 1.6 as the standard by which all other FPSs should be measured), and I remembered that the rewards were really based on win/loss per round. We played as a team because win or lose, it happens as a team. The only reason you ever rushed for a kill was when trying to inflate your score for that round, because as soon as the full match is done, the scores are erased.

It's why I suggested we do this. Not because I think CS and MWO are similar, but because I think the reward structure we have causes most of the problems in player behavior. So the different reward structure might work.


I also still have a big gaping hole for where Heavy role rewards should be, and a way to deal with suiciders/leavers.


Yeah, I do agree with the overall concept. I'd far rather rewards actually be fully team based.

The rewards per class, though, I feel fall into the same pitfall we have now. They don't really encourage good play, and end up rewarding inappropriately unless designed really well. The current system would work just as well given good balance.

I'd lean towards only having flat win/loss amounts, and only giving rewards if you don't disconnect. However, that still leaves suicide play as an issue (ask is easily dealt with). Suicide play is basically impossible to counter with a flat reward structure.

After all, with a collection of mechs, it'd be trivial to spawn, rush, die. Spawn, rush, die.

You'd basically have to remove the ability to launch a new match while you're in another even if dead.

In the end. I just don't believe actually functional role rewards are possible. At least, not in a readily exploitable and counterproductive sense.

#7 Tiamat of the Sea

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 06:44 PM

Reading this gave me an idea. Hang on, I'm gonna resurrect and expand one of my own earlier threads. I like where you want this to go, somewhat, but... doesn't seem quite right. Not on its own, anyways.


EDIT: If anyone happens to know and could pass on to me, the amount of reward (C-bill/XP) for any given action- accurately!- I'd appreciate it. I'm missing some info that I'd want to use to tie this together.

Edited by Quickdraw Crobat, 29 June 2015 - 06:50 PM.


#8 Nothing Whatsoever

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 06:51 PM

I'd focus efforts on damage and kill rewards for reductions or removal for sure, these should be tied to winning or losing as you bring up.


Other support rewards can often contribute to wins though, so I'm on the fence for out right removing them, like using UAVs and Scouting/Targeting or staying near teammates.

And I'm all for adding in more rewards and then re-balancing whatever needs tweaking with more rewards available.

#9 Nothing Whatsoever

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 06:56 PM

View PostQuickdraw Crobat, on 29 June 2015 - 06:44 PM, said:

Reading this gave me an idea. Hang on, I'm gonna resurrect and expand one of my own earlier threads. I like where you want this to go, somewhat, but... doesn't seem quite right. Not on its own, anyways.


EDIT: If anyone happens to know and could pass on to me, the amount of reward (C-bill/XP) for any given action- accurately!- I'd appreciate it. I'm missing some info that I'd want to use to tie this together.


Found an old one so far: http://mwomercs.com/...-functionality/
Two more:
http://mwomercs.com/...45-21-oct-2014/
http://mwomercs.com/...tch-notes-13345

#10 IraqiWalker

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 06:58 PM

View PostQuickdraw Crobat, on 29 June 2015 - 06:44 PM, said:

Reading this gave me an idea. Hang on, I'm gonna resurrect and expand one of my own earlier threads. I like where you want this to go, somewhat, but... doesn't seem quite right. Not on its own, anyways.


EDIT: If anyone happens to know and could pass on to me, the amount of reward (C-bill/XP) for any given action- accurately!- I'd appreciate it. I'm missing some info that I'd want to use to tie this together.


Go right ahead. Bring forth your ideas.

View PostPraetor Knight, on 29 June 2015 - 06:51 PM, said:

I'd focus efforts on damage and kill rewards for reductions or removal for sure, these should be tied to winning or losing as you bring up.


Other support rewards can often contribute to wins though, so I'm on the fence for out right removing them, like using UAVs and Scouting/Targeting or staying near teammates.

And I'm all for adding in more rewards and then re-balancing whatever needs tweaking with more rewards available.


Awesome suggestions.


BTW, does anyone else feel like the rewards were calculated with Premium time factored in? I swear, it feels like if you have premium time, or a hero, the rewards are decent, but if you have neither, it really sucks.





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